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Pokémon today and the first generation

Nitro Indigo

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Instead of banking on nostalgia, how about Game Freak create new things that have the potential to become iconic?

Also, I know it was because of HeartGold and SoulSilver, but Guardian Signs has quite a lot of Gen 2 Pokemon in it. Does that count as pandering?
 

Camille

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In what way does it “seem” like that in comparison to the more straightforward and logical reasons for those decisions? They removed the National Pokédex to make the task of “completing the Pokédex” seem less daunting. Instead of having to catch 800+, you only need to get what’s in the region natively. The National Dex itself never even really provided new content of any kind - it was just the same old entries from previous games copied over, and how many players do you think ever actually bothered to go through and read them time after time? It was precisely the kind of thing that they could feasibly dump onto Pokémon Bank for anybody who actually even cares that much about it. And again, LGPE is taking most of its executional cues from GO - if it turns out to be a market success, then they’ll be glad they held off on including any Pokémon from later generations because then they can roll those out in subsequent Let’s Go games. And if it fails, then it’s not a tremendous loss - they will infer that the Let’s Go approach wasn’t popular, and they can wash their hands of it as a one-time experimental project.
While I do appreciate the fact the Shiny Charm is easier to get now, I still really don't understand why they had to lock the National Dex behind the Bank. Not having it in-game actually implies that Alolans aren't even part of the Pokemon Nation, which just makes no sense. Sure, you can't get most non-regional Pokemon without first transferring them, but even this is really odd, since they could have at least made some available with Swarms, Poke Radar, and Safari Zone, like they did in older games.
 

Dieter

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While I do appreciate the fact the Shiny Charm is easier to get now, I still really don't understand why they had to lock the National Dex behind the Bank. Not having it in-game actually implies that Alolans aren't even part of the Pokemon Nation, which just makes no sense. Sure, you can't get most non-regional Pokemon without first transferring them, but even this is really odd, since they could have at least made some available with Swarms, Poke Radar, and Safari Zone, like they did in older games.
They've been featuring the "Gotta Catch em All" slogan less as total Pokemon count has risen, so honestly it doesn't surprise me. While not an impossible task, it's positively daunting. Not to mention the National Dex seems to have a somewhat erroneous name? What I mean to say is, most regions are presented as autonomous, with their own dex and league. The National Dex is always introduced after the main game, so you can keep collecting information, but hardly implies a bigger connection between regions, I think. So, one Pokemon nation seems a bit of an odd idea anyway. Maybe a more accurate name for the National Dex would be Global Dex?

And even if there is a Pokemon nation, Alola might very well not be a part of it. Not only didn't they have a league until recently, according to an NPC in Malie Library they also have different laws, forbidding the use of what were formerly considered HM moves.

Or maybe only regions with a league also have a national dex? Professors from different regions seem to be working together with regional leagues, or to be at least in contact with them. It might be a collaborative effort, but as Alola didn't have a league yet, they might not share the national dex yet either
 

Nitro Indigo

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according to an NPC in Malie Library they also have different laws, forbidding the use of what were formerly considered HM moves.
In which game? I haven't played USUM, but I remember an NPC in Malie Library mentioning that they use HM02 in Johto, but that's it.

Also, what's the National Pokédex called in Japanese?
 

Dieter

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In which game? I haven't played USUM, but I remember an NPC in Malie Library mentioning that they use HM02 in Johto, but that's it.

Also, what's the National Pokédex called in Japanese?
In Japanese it's "national illustrated encyclopedia".

That's the NPC I was talking about yes. It's a tourist who gives you the TM for Fly and mentions laws being different
 

Gengarzilla

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I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if they undo the physical/special split and resurrect the Special stat for Gen VIII at the rate things are going. It's actually quite depressing how much focus is being placed on nostalgia today. Two bloody generations in a row now.
 

RileyXY1

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I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if they undo the physical/special split and resurrect the Special stat for Gen VIII at the rate things are going. It's actually quite depressing how much focus is being placed on nostalgia today. Two bloody generations in a row now.
This is only for Let's Go. They will put things back to normal in the 2019 game, most likely.
 

Gengarzilla

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This is only for Let's Go. They will put things back to normal in the 2019 game, most likely.
I dunno, my faith in Game Freak has been shaken severely since I caught wind of those games removing abilities. The 2019 entry needs to be flawless at this point.
 

RileyXY1

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I dunno, my faith in Game Freak has been shaken severely since I caught wind of those games removing abilities. The 2019 entry needs to be flawless at this point.
Yeah. I am upset about how much they are focusing on nostalgia. When they focus too much on the past, they cannot adapt for the future.
 

Cmann

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If they added more than the original 151,I would buy the game.
 

Bolt the Cat

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I think my main frustration with the treatment of Kanto is the refusal to admit that any part of it might be lacking or flawed in some way.
  • Zubat and Magikarp are iconic for being annoyingly common, even back in Gen 1, but 20 years later and they're still giving those two 90% encounter rates like Nicolas said, despite the hundreds of Pokemon they've added since then.
  • Kanto has only one evolutionary line for the Steel, Dragon, and Ghost types, and none for Dark, and rather than recognize that the dex is imbalanced and that they could add Pokemon from the six other generations, one of which took place right next door, they just leave it as it is. You could argue that Dragon doesn't need to be present in a dex that much, and I would agree with you were it not for the fact that there is a Dragon-type specialist in the Elite Four whose party consists of one line repeated three times (the Dragonoirs even have the same moveset and level) and two Pokemon that aren't Dragon-types.
  • Pikachu can't evolve in Yellow, disappointing Raichu fans and leaving it a bit behind stats-wise. Not only does LGPE keep this (though they give it a stats boost), Eevee is also given the same treatment, despite the fact that they state Eevee is popular because of its ability to evolve.
Rather than using the designs they've created, they just focus on being similar to a game two decades ago.
This. I don't have as much of a problem with Kanto reappearing for the 5th time as much as I have a problem with them making a 1 to 1 recreation of the entire experience when they have the means to make a MUCH better Kanto experience nowadays. Kanto was extremely limited by the constraints of the original Game Boy and a heavily imbalanced pool of Pokemon. But those constraints no longer exist, the Switch is capable of much larger, varied, and more detailed game maps and we have more than enough Pokemon to give the game a diverse range of Pokemon. So why do they keep handicapping themselves with these limitations when they no longer exist anymore? What I'd really like to see is a Kanto game that does for Kanto what BW2 did for Unova. Overhaul the areas so they don't feel so flat, short, blocky, and generic. Throw in new areas to make the region feel bigger. Add in new Pokemon so you actually have some options. Add in some QoL features, mini games, and sidequests to give it more of an identity instead of making it feel generic and barren. Enough trying to design Kanto like it's 1996. I want to see what Kanto would look like if it were developed in 2018. The only way LGPE feels like a 2018 is with the graphics, and that's basically just trying to put a fresh coat of paint on an old jalopy.
 

RileyXY1

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This. I don't have as much of a problem with Kanto reappearing for the 5th time as much as I have a problem with them making a 1 to 1 recreation of the entire experience when they have the means to make a MUCH better Kanto experience nowadays. Kanto was extremely limited by the constraints of the original Game Boy and a heavily imbalanced pool of Pokemon. But those constraints no longer exist, the Switch is capable of much larger, varied, and more detailed game maps and we have more than enough Pokemon to give the game a diverse range of Pokemon. So why do they keep handicapping themselves with these limitations when they no longer exist anymore? What I'd really like to see is a Kanto game that does for Kanto what BW2 did for Unova. Overhaul the areas so they don't feel so flat, short, blocky, and generic. Throw in new areas to make the region feel bigger. Add in new Pokemon so you actually have some options. Add in some QoL features, mini games, and sidequests to give it more of an identity instead of making it feel generic and barren. Enough trying to design Kanto like it's 1996. I want to see what Kanto would look like if it were developed in 2018. The only way LGPE feels like a 2018 is with the graphics, and that's basically just trying to put a fresh coat of paint on an old jalopy.
It's gotten to the point where the fans are outdoing GF in terms of making a Gen 1 remake. There's a fan made Kanto remake called Pokemon: Infernal Red & Natural Green, and it actually adds onto Kanto instead of just copy pasting the original game into better graphics. The game uses Gen 5's graphics style. IRNG adds in all the crossgen relatives introduced in Gens 2 and 4, as well as adding in the day/night system and berry growing, among other features. That's how Kanto should be remade.
 

Poke Dragon

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As long as Kanto finally stops hogging the spotlight from the newer regions in general, I was fine with a remake happening. But when it keeps being shoved in my face for so long, that's when I don't want a second Kanto remake to happen. I don't care if it's the first Pokemon region ever created and I certainly don't care about its Pokemon, especially since they were given too much attention across 2 generations in a row. In fact, when video-game franchises need to grow, they often need to abandon some first game roots to make way for new original features, much like how Super Mario Odyssey did away with the power-up system completely, replacing it with Cappy.
 

Arcanine10

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I really don't hate Gen I, heck, my favourite Pokémon hails from that generation and having played through it I only have good memories.

BUt this whole goddamn privilege they get. LGEP, only Region to have their Pokémon get Alolan Forms, 2 of their Pokémon got 2 Megas, gift Pokémon in game, references to it, Protagonists always coming from Kanto one way or another. It's as if the makers themselves have some sort of mental incapability of thinking beyond Kanto.

Them using Gen I everywhere is what causes me to hate it. And what I find worse is people (Wouldn't necessarily call them Genwunners) who are so in love with Kanto and Gen I that they are unable to see the flaws or will not say that something is bad and think it's the best thing in the world just purely because it's Gen I. (Looking at you, Gameboyluke.)

\Rant over.
 

Guzma

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Gen 1 was my favorite for years; I loved Gens 2-4 well enough, but by Gen 4 my attention was starting to waver from Pokemon. Then came Gen 5, which roped me back in and brought a sense of freshness and fun the franchise hadn't had IMO since Gen 1. Gen 5 immediately became my favorite Generation, due to its focus on new Pokemon. To be fair, all the previous generations had focused more on new Pokemon, with the remakes there to feed nostalgia. However, I hated FRLG for being too close to the original Gen 1 games without doing anything interesting and different until the postgame.

Then came XY. I expected whatever came after Gen 5's greatness to be a drop in quality, but I didn't expect Gen 6 to backtrack on the things that made me adore Gen 5. The story was shit. The characters were okay at best and downright awful (Team Flare) at worst. And the games focused far too much on old Pokemon, which was previously saved for third versions or remakes. Sun and Moon, on the other hand, were drastic improvements compared to XY, with a story and characters second only to Gen 5's, but they focused even more on pandering to nostalgia for Kanto.

And then there's GO. I have no problem with GO's fanbase. My problem is that by including only the original 151 at its outset, it only exacerbated the problem of Kanto Pokemon becoming the most prominent Pokemon even further. I've seen official merchandise just this year that is chock-full of Kanto Pokemon and only has a token handful of later generation Pokemon. And LGPE is looking to make this problem even worse; the only interesting thing about LGPE is Meltan and Melmetal, and I can easily just wait for Gen 8 to get them instead of retreading ground through a region that has little personality of its own and many Pokemon I've come to resent despite growing up with them, but with GO's tedious catching mechanics.

I grew up with Gen 1, and for most of my life I held it up as the pinnacle of Pokemon. Now I'm absolutely sick of Gen 1.

EDIT: I don't see the point of panicking about GF fusing Special Attack and Special Defense back into a single Special stat again. Game Freak knows that such a move would send the competitive scene into an uproar. The same goes with worries that Gen 8 will only have the original 151 and whatever new Pokemon are introduced; Game Freak has already confirmed they're working on a way to make Bank available on Switch so you can transfer your Pokemon from the previous seven generations. Hell, they even acknowledged about how upset people were when they were unable to transfer Pokemon from Gen 1 and 2 to Gen 3, and mentioned they're going to great lengths to avoid it happening again. There's no way they would remove the vast majority of Pokemon from the franchise, especially ones that are heavily marketed like Lucario, Greninja and Lycanroc.

There's reason to be upset with Kanto pandering consuming the franchise, but we shouldn't start acting like the sky is falling.
 
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RileyXY1

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As long as Kanto finally stops hogging the spotlight from the newer regions in general, I was fine with a remake happening. But when it keeps being shoved in my face for so long, that's when I don't want a second Kanto remake to happen. I don't care if it's the first Pokemon region ever created and I certainly don't care about its Pokemon, especially since they were given too much attention across 2 generations in a row. In fact, when video-game franchises need to grow, they often need to abandon some first game roots to make way for new original features, much like how Super Mario Odyssey did away with the power-up system completely, replacing it with Cappy.
Yeah. I hope that they're done with shoving Kanto down our throats after LGPE.
 

PinkIceFox

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As someone who started playing with Blue Version back in the 90's I can say that I am sick and tired of Kanto as it is. It's a boring, empty region where every city is basically the same as all the other cities. Nothing really sets them apart, and there's noting all that interesting outside of the cities at all. The best Kanto gives is the sort of Zoo in Fuchsia city as an interesting landmark.

While I can understand them wanting to make sure older pokemon stay relevant they really need to remember that there were 'early' generations after Gen 1. Johto is one of my favorite regions and it and its pokemon need SO MUCH MORE LOVE.
 
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