Pokémon Z: How Would You Have Done It?

[Leaf_Ranger]

I think what happened is that Game Freak had bigger plans for ORAS and Z when they first started working on 6th gen, but they vastly overestimated how much content they'd be able to include because the 3D models took up so much more of their time. And rather than delay the games (you know, like most developers that actually give a shit about the quality of their products would do), they just cut the content so they could stick to a yearly schedule and a 3 year generation. I don't buy the excuse that they wanted SM out in 2016 because of the anniversary. There's nothing about the games that really screams "anniversary". It's probably more because they just don't feel like spending more than 3 years on a game for cost/merchandising reasons and SM landing on the 20th anniversary is a convenient coincidence.

I'd also question their ability to even create in 3D...that, along with a new console, could have slowed down the development of the games.

 

[Lanstar]

Ah yes, Pokemon Z... The infamous game that never existed. I think many people dream of such game because of how Black and White v2 gave a huge content boost over regular BW - And from that, Z could have become such a content boost upon X/Y.

I know many have disdain for X/Y as the game that started the content regression and quality of current Pokemon games. However, I found that besides such a regression, it had fairly good gameplay. It had tons of dream team options to chose from near the start, many of the cities had plenty of areas to explore, and the design contrast in each of the routes really stands out, even though they were linearly linked. Pokemon Amie was at its best, as it actually had true "minigames" to play compared to the later renditions. And then there was the glorious online system, useful hoard battles, mega evolutions, and the nifty super training game. I could replay X/Y from the start and still enjoy the gameplay they had.

The problem, of course, is they squandered X/Y by giving it a severely bad postgame - And by making the initial game disturbingly easy. No battle frontier, hardly any *postgame* hidden areas, and you were always overleveled with the Exp. share on. The worst part, I think, were the Gym Leaders and Elite Four: Not only did they have few Pokemon with them, they each used no coherent strategy other than generic brute force. Once you easily blow over all the trainers, the challenge is merely limited to the Battle Maison and battling other players - which is depleted of all the real adventure mechanics and exploration.

Such Problems are so strongly associated with the titles that the only way for redemption would be to make an advanced version to fix them. Yet at the same time, this is a good thing about XY: They have a great base to begin with to foster loads of potential and love upon. Much more so, I daresay, than Sun/Moon, where the base region itself is so deeply entrenched into a linear slideshow that the whole region and story would need a design change so severe, it would feel like an entirely new Pokemon game.

 

[Esserise]

no hidden areas

What is the precise difference between a "hidden" area and just an optional one? Because there are quite a few areas throughout X & Y that you aren't obligated to explore: the overgrown side-paths of Route 6, the entirety of Route 16 and the Lost Hotel, Terminus Cave, Azure Bay, all of Route 22 (particularly though the waterfall bit by the Chamber of Emptiness which has a Strength puzzle), and a solid chunk of Routes 19 and 21, and many of those aren't overtly gestured at. There are also numerous little nooks that are only accessible via HMs or skating rails. I've always liked these parts of Kalos for that reason.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

they squandered X/Y by giving it a severely bad postgame

The arc with Emma was brilliant.

 

[Lanstar]

What is the precise difference between a "hidden" area and just an optional one? Because there are quite a few areas throughout X & Y that you aren't obligated to explore: the overgrown side-paths of Route 6, the entirety of Route 16 and the Lost Hotel, Terminus Cave, Azure Bay, all of Route 22 (particularly though the waterfall bit by the Chamber of Emptiness which has a Strength puzzle), and a solid chunk of Routes 19 and 21, and many of those aren't overtly gestured at. There are also numerous little nooks that are only accessible via HMs or skating rails. I've always liked these parts of Kalos for that reason.

Let me rephrase this: Hardly any postgame hidden areas.

 

[Puddle]

If Pokemon Z had been made, I would have liked to see Mega Evolutions added for some of the Gen VI Pokemon, including the starters. I was a little disappointed when I realized none of the Gen VI Pokemon could Mega Evolve in X and Y, which why I was glad to see Gigantamax forms for Gen VIII Pokemon.

 

[Hidden Mew]

While I didn't think we'd get a Pokemon Z, in the sense of being a traditional third version game, I thought that we would get another game set in Kalos for awhile so that they could include Mega Evolutions for the Kalos starters. I would have loved for the Johto starters to get some attention with Mega Evolutions, or really any kind of new form. I love Gigantamax Charizard as much as the next person and I understand why the original starters tend to get these new forms, but I would pay good money for Mega Typhlosion or Gigantamax Typhlosion to exist.

 

[Bolt Strike]

The game itself doesn't have to - it just needs to capitalise on the heightened awareness of the franchise generated by other products and media, namely Go. We can't know for certain, but it would be a major scheduling blunder to not have a shiny, new, 'big' title to direct rejuvenated interest towards.

Pokemon sells regardless, whether or not the game is on an anniversary or not makes little difference. And the sales of SM weren't really significantly better or worse anyway, so positioning SM on the 20th anniversary was fairly pointless.

If anything, it probably would've been better to just do Z in 2016 and put SM on the Switch. Considering how the Switch sold like wildfire and SwSh is breaking sales records, making SM a Switch launch title very well might have had a tangible effect on sales. If anything could've, that would've been it.

Whether or not something "screams anniversary" is pretty subjective; for me, SM absolutely do feel conscious of their release date. The story culminating in a brick joke callback to a quirky event from the original games really isn't something that your typical Pokémon games do, and that's on top of all the more tangible stuff - several Gen 1 Pokémon being reimagined with colorful new forms (three of which are yet more arcane Easter eggs), Samson Oak, Red (who is blatantly wearing a '96' logo on his shirt) and Blue returning as adults to captain the Battle Tree along with a few other popular faces from various gens, the Nugget Bridge recreation at Malie Garden (which itself is a reference to the Lake of Rage), the Ash-hat Pikachu series commemorating the anime's entire run, Diglett's Tunnel being an obvious nod to Diglett's Cave, Mimikyu's very existence as a diegetic acknowledgement of Pikachu's role as the mascot, all the talk about how your character comes from Kanto and how Kukui once went to Kanto and made it all the way up to the Indigo League... that's all the overt stuff off the top of my head, there's tons of other Easter eggs including references to the other generations. Sure, every game has nods to old ones, but I think they were pretty clearly infusing Sun & Moon with an unusually high degree of nostalgic value.

What are you talking about? That's not anything more than what we usually get. References/appearances to other characters and regions and form changes for older Pokemon really isn't out of the norm for this series. An anniversary game is usually something that evokes the entire design/mechanics of the series' history. Think Sonic Generations or Super Mario Maker. SM didn't go to that degree, it was just business as usual with a regular new generation, and had 2016 not been the 20th anniversary, the game probably would've been almost exactly the same. They didn't intentionally design it to evoke nostalgia, they just stuck in random tidbits. Hell, even XY did bigger things than that with the Kanto starters, Santalune Forest having the same design as Viridian Forest, and Mewtwo being catchable in a cave called Unknown Dungeon post game. If the entirety of SM did things like that then I'd buy that they were anniversary games.

Ah yes, Pokemon Z... The infamous game that never existed. I think many people dream of such game because of how Black and White v2 gave a huge content boost over regular BW - And from that, Z could have become such a content boost upon X/Y.

Well said, this is the crux of the issue I think. BW2 completely raised the bar for what an enhanced version of the game could do with an existing region and with how barren XY was, it felt like Kalos could similarly benefit from a Z/XY2/whatever to improve the region on a similar scale. Instead, they pretty much plummeted back to earth with a fat load of nothing for Kalos and USUM being perhaps the most conservative enhanced versions we've had in a decade.

Such Problems are so strongly associated with the titles that the only way for redemption would be to make an advanced version to fix them. Yet at the same time, this is a good thing about XY: They have a great base to begin with to foster loads of potential and love upon. Much more so, I daresay, than Sun/Moon, where the base region itself is so deeply entrenched into a linear slideshow that the whole region and story would need a design change so severe, it would feel like an entirely new Pokemon game.

I really don't see the difference, the only thing SM does worse is tons of cutscenes and handholding. Pokemon regions have been a "linear sideshow" since BW pretty much.

 

[Nicolas721]

Back then I had the feeling that there was a missing piece that holded ORAS and XY together so I'd be happy to get one, and I'd have also enjoyed more of Kalos and more Zygarde. But it's a great game as much as any game in our minds, with GF's track record of the last 7 years I doubt it would have fullfilled all of its potential. I'm still salty about how they had one year to do a friggin' golf-themed route and a small Fossil Park but choose not to.

On another note, I think Zygarde needed a new villain to function, it doesn't make sense that Team Flare weaponizes balance. The anime got away with it because it focused more on the action.

 

[Esserise]

On another note, I think Zygarde needed a new villain to function, it doesn't make sense that Team Flare weaponizes balance.

I would think you could still have Team Flare targeting Xerneas and Yveltal as usual and then just have Zygarde intervene when stuff goes pear-shaped, like Rayquaza did in Emerald, since it is supposed to be the mediator between those two. My wild speculation is that they'd have had you picking up Zygarde's cells throughout the story to build up to that, which, hey, at least unlike Rayquaza it wouldn't be coming completely out of the story's ass at the eleventh hour.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I would think you could still have Team Flare targeting Xerneas and Yveltal as usual and then just have Zygarde intervene when stuff goes pear-shaped, like Rayquaza did in Emerald. My wild speculation is that they'd have had you picking up Zygarde's cells throughout the story to build up to that.

I personally think Team Flare would've captured Zygarde instead of Xerneas or Yveltal, with the player collecting the remaining 50 Cells either before the climax or during the post-game.

 

[Esserise]

I personally think Team Flare would've captured Zygarde instead of Xerneas or Yveltal, with the player collecting the remaining 50 Cells either before the climax or during the post-game.

Right but that gets at the problem Nicholas was talking about, in that it's kind of odd for Team Flare to weaponize "balance." Like what does that even mean, when Zygarde's whole function is to protect the ecosystem?

On a related note, any discussion of "Pokémon Z" should probably consider that it might have been two versions akin to USUM. There were two unused Gen 6 game IDs in Bank's code, after all. And in such a scenario, I think it is probable that Xerneas and Yveltal would still have been version-exclusive. But what would their role in the plot be? For me, the simplest answer is that it would still be largely the same, with Xerneas/Yveltal being exploited by Team Flare once again, and with Zygarde responding to the disruption that they cause. This would demonstrate Zygarde's role as a keeper of natural order.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Right but that gets at the problem Nicholas was talking about, in that it's kind of odd for Team Flare to weaponize "balance." Like what does that even mean, when Zygarde's whole function is to protect the ecosystem?

On a related note, any discussion of "Pokémon Z" should probably consider that it might have been two versions akin to USUM. There were two unused Gen 6 game IDs in Bank's code, after all. And in such a scenario, I think it is probable that Xerneas and Yveltal would still have been version-exclusive. But what would their role in the plot be? For me, the simplest answer is that it would still be largely the same, with Xerneas/Yveltal being exploited by Team Flare once again, and with Zygarde responding to the disruption that they cause. This would demonstrate Zygarde's role as a keeper of natural order.

Good points. I had almost forgotten the whole "two unused versions" thing.

 

[Almonds]

- More Mega Evolutions
- Diantha and Lysandre appear more frequently throughout the game.
- Ties to ORAS.
- We get Eternal Floette as the secondary legend after Zygarde.

 

[mikechuu]

I love Kalos, but it definitely needed that third game to improve it.

Would have been a great opportunity to do something with Zygarde, add more Mega Evolutions, improve the Gym Leaders and incorporate them into the story, have Diantha do something, etc.