Possible reasons for the Kalos League finale

[Hidden Mew]

Even so, I didn't have a temper tantrum when Ash lost. Sure it was disappointing but it was far from the end of the world. Alain won fair and square and I just wanted others to know that. Apologies if there was generalizations but I am not the bad guy.

Okay, I apparently wasn't clear enough before. Do not belittle other people's reactions over this development. That includes calling them spoiled children and saying that fans are having a temper tantrum, which are both insults and huge generalizations since the majority of people I've seen disappointed with the defeat have perfectly valid reasons for their disappointment. I don't think that you've been intending to insult people, but it certainly comes off that way, especially claiming that you've been more mature about the whole situation. Just try to be more respectful towards others feelings. You might be perfectly happy with Alain winning and that's fine, but that doesn't mean fans who are upset over his victory are wrong, that they're being immature or that they're throwing a temper tantrum. Don't do this again.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Apologise to the others users for my previous posts.

Anyway, Ash losing comes down to the writer's choice and they choose to have him lose. I am actually glad Alain won because Ash was getting too OP and needed to be stop. Plus he always loses the league anyway so it was bound to happen at some point.

 

[Aura7541]

This is a dumb point. Ash has his mum, Oak, his countless friends, all his other Pokemon. He has far more than Alain. It is just poor convenient writing.

And I actually agree with this. I was just trying to play Devil's Advocate and well... it's pretty damn hard ><

It would've been cool if Ash invoked memories of his previous companions and Pokemon, and that gave him the extra push to win.

 

[Mew2]

This is a dumb point. Ash has his mum, Oak, his countless friends, all his other Pokemon. He has far more than Alain. It is just poor convenient writing.

The thing is, though, that Alain thought about Mairin throughout the battle and she was his driving force in the battle. As for Ash, he may have more friends, but what does he really think about them? We saw no montage of his past friends, or even Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie during the battle, like we did with Mairin for Alain. Yes, Ash's friends cheered for him, but they did not seem to be all that important to Ash in the battle. At least they did not seem to be anywhere close to being as important to Ash as Mairin was for Alain. In the end, it was almost as Ash was doing this just for himself and his Pokémon with no other motivating force while Alain was motivated by Mairin and that's what led to his victory.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Apologise to the others users for my previous posts.

Anyway, Ash losing comes down to the writer's choice and they choose to have him lose. I am actually glad Alain won because Ash was getting too OP and needed to be stop. Plus he always loses the league anyway so it was bound to happen at some point.

I could see the issue of Ash himself getting too powerful. It's actually one issue I have with XY with Ash being glorified a bit by fans or maybe it's because I just find the battles a bit overrated at times. However, Alain is way more overpowered. I think his only on-screen defeat since he debuted was against Siebold from the Elite 4. I know he lost to Lysandre in a flashback, but I'm not sure if that really counts as an on-screen defeat when we didn't see the whole battle. This is the same trainer who was able to defeat ten Mega Pokemon in a row, including one from an Elite 4 member, was able to do significant damage against Zygarde, was able to get all eight badges in a relatively short amount of time with just his Charizard and got to the finals of the Kalos League primarily relying on Charizard. How does any of that not make Alain come off as a completely broken and overpowered trainer?

I could almost get with the idea of Ash getting too overpowered and needed to be brought down a peg if they didn't spend a mini-arc dealing with Ash's overconfidence and especially if he didn't lose to a significantly more overpowered trainer in Alain. For something like that to work, Ash would have needed to lose against a trainer who is more of an underdog or wasn't considered to be that strong instead of the Mega Charizard X promotional device known as Alain.

 

[PokePete]

The obvious main reason Ash lost was because Alan's OP Mega Charizard X. Most of the final seemed quite evenly matched until Charizard battled. He took some good damage from Pikachu before knocking it out and took many hits from Greninja/Ash Greninja before the big Shuriken, which I thought would have finished him off, but he was still standing and looked no worse for wear.

 

[PrettyVenomoth]

The thing is, though, that Alain thought about Mairin throughout the battle and she was his driving force in the battle. As for Ash, he may have more friends, but what does he really think about them? We saw no montage of his past friends, or even Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie during the battle, like we did with Mairin for Alain. Yes, Ash's friends cheered for him, but they did not seem to be all that important to Ash in the battle. At least they did not seem to be anywhere close to being as important to Ash as Mairin was for Alain. In the end, it was almost as Ash was doing this just for himself and his Pokémon with no other motivating force while Alain was motivated by Mairin and that's what led to his victory.

They did not seem to because we are at the mercy of the writers/directors in this. They chose not to show how much it meant to Ash. We know he cares a lot about his friends and his Pokemon, he promised Delia he would win the Kalos league. The directors don't even include her at all. Her sons first ever major final and we don't even get a live reaction. That's just terrible writing. I didn't notice how telling it was, this was never Ash's battle. If she shows up at a final then there is a legitimate chance but that won't happen till the series ends and after GOs popularity, it may out live us all.

 

[SonansuMan]

If Ash won the League with his Kalos Pokemon alone, that would mean he basically crapped on all of the development his past teams have had.

 

[IncineROAR]

I am disappointed Ash lost in the end, but as always, the writers will use it as a springboard for Ash to go to the next region and compete in that region's challenge *eye roll*

 

[Keshav]

Apologise to the others users for my previous posts.

Anyway, Ash losing comes down to the writer's choice and they choose to have him lose. I am actually glad Alain won because Ash was getting too OP and needed to be stop. Plus he always loses the league anyway so it was bound to happen at some point.

Alain was way more OP than Ash and did you see his attitude with the other trainers in the league? He was the one that needed to be brought back to the ground and not Ash.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Alain was way more OP than Ash and did you see his attitude with the other trainers in the league? He was the one that needed to be brought back to the ground and not Ash.

I don't agree but I respect your opinion. Maybe Alain was more powerful but Ash's Greninja needed to be defeated in it's perfected form so that we know it is not invincible.

 

[Alola]

Ash Greninja is not invincible.

Mega Charizard X
OT: Alain
"Capable of taking hits"
is apparently invincible.

 

[Shadao]

I don't agree but I respect your opinion. Maybe Alain was more powerful but Ash's Greninja needed to be defeated in it's perfected form so that we know it is not invincible.

The only Pokémon in need of defeat is Alain's Mega Charizard X. Mainly because Alain needs to realize he is not the strongest trainer in Kalos and that I have a low opinion on Charizard's popularity other than Ash's (since it actually earned my respect to accept its ability to destroy the competition).
---
And after seeing the monologues from Ash and Alain translated, I can safely say that Alain is most definitely undeserving of the Champion's title. Again he talks about how Ash brought the fun and excitement within during their battle, something that he didn't felt in his other battles. He feels like Volkner from Diamond and Pearl... until he decides to ignore that epiphany in favor for I mustn't lose because I need to be the strongest for Mairin. In other words, he completely failed the lesson he needs to learn. And you really do wonder if Alain winning a trophy and champion was worth it to him since it doesn't really change anything other than ''And Then What?'' situation once he has beaten Ash and technically become the strongest trainer.

Ash, on other hand, is at peace with himself. He had learned long ago that focusing on winning will get you nowhere except self-destruction, which he went through after humiliatingly losing to Sawyer (for trying to intentionally activate Ash-Greninja's power) and Wulfric (for being too focused on beating him for Sawyer's sake). Only by letting go of his focus on winning and remembering why he loves being a Pokémon Trainer does he master Ash-Greninja. During his monologue, he too enjoys the fun and excitement that the battle brings. He also wishes to win, but fully acknowledges to Alain that he doesn't care about the outcome as long as he can bring the best out of him and his opponent. This is why he doesn't cry or feel depressed when he loses. He remains a good sport despite being so close.

Had the situation been reversed, you would never know that from Ash as he would be too busy being excited that he finally won the Kalos League. But I suspect that if Alain loses, it would be quite a breakdown for him (and likely harden his vow to train harder and become stronger to never lose instead of simply accepting the loss).

Though the official rank system states that Alain is the Champion and Ash is the runner-up, we all know who is the real Champion of Kalos. From the monologues that reflect their characters, the one worthy of being champion is the one who is at peace with himself. Ash is at peace with himself while Alain is not.

 

[swampertuska]

I don't agree but I respect your opinion. Maybe Alain was more powerful but Ash's Greninja needed to be defeated in it's perfected form so that we know it is not invincible.

I think we are watching differernt shows.

 

[vncredleader]

I wonder if before Alain redeems himself or whatever, we have a rematch and Ash wins which makes Alain turn away from team flare. Perhaps since it is the 20th anniversary he could use a team of one Pokemon from each gen. That would never happen and is just me being a fanboy but eh I would have preferred that to another Ash loss. I will still be exited for Sun and Moon but I am sad that we wont get to see an Ash who has won a league trying to move to a new region with a new team after having accomplished so much in Kalos.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I don't agree but I respect your opinion. Maybe Alain was more powerful but Ash's Greninja needed to be defeated in it's perfected form so that we know it is not invincible.

We know that Ash-Greninja isn't invincible. It has a few times since it evolved and it has actually struggled against other strong Pokemon even after perfecting its transformation. The same really can't be said for Mega Charizard X when it has only lost once. Maybe that wouldn't be too bad if it was shown struggling against other opponents or that it was barely able to win, but they really haven't done that. When it can defeat ten Mega Pokemon in a row, do significant damage against a Legendary Pokemon and quickly earn its trainer eight badges, then that's a serious problem. There's making a rival character look strong and then there's making them look so ridiculously overpowered and broken. Alain is well over that line and in my opinion has been since the third Mega Evolution special. I know that Alain used items to heal Charizard in between those ten battles, but that doesn't really prevent Mega Charizard X from looking overpowered, especially when it was able to beat a Mega Pokemon from an Elite 4 member.

Admittedly, I do think that they have made Ash-Greninja look too powerful at a few points too. It was heavily implied that Ash could have defeated Diantha's Mega Gardevoir if he didn't faint and if Team Rocket didn't show up when they did, which was going too far for my tastes, even with its perfected form. So it's not just Mega Charizard X. However, that's a drop in the bucket compared to the ocean of overpowered and brokenness that is Alain's Mega Charizard X. Nearly defeating the Champion's strongest Pokemon is a bit much, but Mega Charizard X's accomplishments are much more frustrating because of how it defeats pretty much everything in front of it. It's the Pokemon that we need to know isn't invincible, not Ash-Greninja.

Ash already learned his lesson about his overconfident and being too focused on winning for the shake of winning. He didn't need to be dropped down a peg. Alain, on the other hand, does need a defeat. That's one of the reasons why I think fans are upset. Alain has been winning nearly all the time since his debut and it's been especially bad since his debut in XY proper, if not the third Mega Evolution special. It seemed like they were setting up for his defeat, especially when Ash has already lost to him twice and their second battle did give the impression that Ash-Greninja could have defeated him as well if Ash didn't faint, which admittedly is another issue to perfected Ash-Greninja losing here. Ash has learned to accept defeat and to enjoy battling without worrying about the outcome. Alain clearly hasn't, so seeing him with the champion trophy when he hasn't really learned his lesson and especially when he has one of the most broken and overpowered Pokemon in the series is upsetting to many fans.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Disagree with previous posts. Ash was bound to lose the league so it made sense for Alain to win. Maybe Alain would lose to Lysandre when he finds out that he was tricked and tries to take on the boss himself? He doesn't have to lose to Ash. I have made my opinion and I am not changing it. I have been fair to both characters and been neutral to who would win.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Disagree with previous posts. Ash was bound to lose the league so it made sense for Alain to win. Maybe Alain would lose to Lysandre when he finds out that he was tricked and tries to take on the boss himself? He doesn't have to lose to Ash. I have made my opinion and I am not changing it. I have been fair to both characters and been neutral to who would win.

I don't know if it made sense for Alain to win given how they've treating Ash and especially with how he's already lost to Alain twice before even Ash-Greninja was perfected. While I didn't think Ash would win myself, there were signs pointing to it and I could see why other people were so sure he'd win. It may make more sense depending on what happens during the Team Flare arc, but as of now, I can understand why people are more upset over Alain winning. For the record, I stopped caring about Ash winning a game related region League years ago and it's not really something that I watch the series for. I'm more for the journey of the show with Ash and his friends than the destination itself, but even I think that the decision to let Alain win the Kalos League is questionable at best, especially when he didn't have any interest in it until his second battle with Ash. Maybe it would be more okay if Alain didn't meet Ash late into XY or at least there were signs he was taking on Gym battles during the Mega Evolution. At least that way, it wouldn't feel like they forced him into the Kalos League because of how Ash's rivals were so lackluster and that he didn't have to burn through the Gyms with his overpowered Mega Charizard X.

It's possible that Alain could go after Lysandre after he finds out that he has been manipulated all this time, but if that happens, it's more likely that he and Ash would team up to take Lysandre down. I don't see Lysandre defeating Alain. The most would be Ash stepping in to help right before Lysandre delivers the final blow, or something along those lines, but this also involves a big assumption on our part. We don't know how Alain will react once he realizes he's been manipulated by Lynsandre all this time. He could lash out in anger, he could be too consumed with guilt to do anything effective or he might not really care as long as he can help those he cares about like Mairin and her Chespin. It's hard to say right now how he'd react to finding out what he has been doing all this time.

He doesn't necessarily have to lose to Ash, but I think it would be a sour note to end the series without Ash defeating at least Mega Charizard X. It looked like they were going in that direction before, especially when the second battle did push Mega Charizard X to its limit before its form was even perfected. And you did use the logic of how Ash always loses in the League to defend Alain's victory, so by that same kind of logic, Ash should eventually be able to defeat Alain because he always defeats his rivals. I don't see why Alain should be an exception there given how far they've gone to hype up his Mega Charizard X to extremely broken levels.

I never said that I wanted to change your opinion or anything like that. I think you misunderstand the purpose of a conversation if you think people have to convince the other people involved that they're right or something like that. I can't speak for other people, but that's not my intention by disagreeing with you. It's just to explain my point of view and why I disagree with you. If I went into every disagreement in the hopes of changing someone's opinion, my online experiences would be far, far worse than they already are. Not to mention I'd get more frequent headaches while talking to people online. I can't force anyone to change their opinions. That's something for you to decide, not me or anyone else for that matter. If you're set in your opinion, that's fine. I'm not going to force you to change it, but I am going to disagree with your arguments. I'd also question how fair you've been to the characters and how neutral you've been to it, mainly because I get more of an Alain bias from your claims more than anything else, but again, I'm not trying to force you to change your opinions or how you come to them. Your entitled to your opinion just as I am with mine, but we're also entitled to disagree with each other and as long as it's done respectfully, it should be fine.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

@Hidden Mew maybe. If Ash and Alain rematch and Ash wins then I be fine with it. I do try to be fair with both characters but I apologize if it looks like I haven't. All I know is that Ash seemed okay about the battle.

 

[Decaboyz]

The writers should at least consider the fan's POV. They spend 20 years of their lives rooting for Ash.