Preview of upcoming GF & Gym battle

[Iteru]

Anyone have a picture of Ursula in her new dress?

Yes, yes I do.

 

[Chimcharizard]

Your point, while I don't think I addressed it here, I will address it.

I used to think that as well, no one could ever place higher than Ash or May, no one because it would be a slap to them.

But how is that fair to future beginning trainers/coordinators? Why should they suffer by placing equally with what Ash and May did on their first time?

To me that's not realistic at all, someone is always going to be better when they start out than the some other people.

I mean let's look at Ash's Indigo/Kanto record:

1. Most of Ash's badges were earned through some other way than actually battling. Which seriously hindered his Pokemon's growth.

2. Ash's Charizard, his likely strongest Pokemon "abandoned" Ash when he needed Charizard the most.

Now Ash really didn't deserve to lose to Ritchie the way he did, I'll agree to that, because the writers made sure he was beyond screwed, with the whole Team Rocket tiring out Pidgeotto and Bulbasaur, so he could only use Charizard.

But still Ash got pretty far for his first time, and had the battle been fair, Ash might've gotten Top 8 in the league maybe higher.

Now let's look at May's Hoenn Record:

1. She disliked Pokemon from the start.
2. She never failed an appeal round, and only lost in the battle stage.

And she place Top 8 in the Grand Festival. Hey look May did better than Ash, oh no Slap to Ash, right?

Well let's look at Dawn:

1. Her mother is a grand festival winner.

2. Dawn WANTED to be a coordinator from the start, meaning she already had combinations in her head before she got her first Pokemon.

3. Dawn lost in the appeal stage twice, which is a lot more realistic than May's crappy appeal winning appeals (especially when Dawn's appeals weren't even that bad).

4. Dawn won all her ribbons fairly. She didn't get a single one through pity.


Dawn is already shown to be better than Ash or May when they started out.


So like I said, how fair or realistic if every coordinator from May showed up and placed Top 8 or worse, because god forbid that doing better would be a spit in May's face.

Now I don't expect (if Dawn does win the GF) that it sets some precedent where all of the coordinators in the future win their first GF (especially if Jessie's going to be there), but Dawn at least has a good excuse and no it's none of things I mentioned earlier. It's simply this:

All known GF coordinator's are entering the GF for their first time, so Dawn should have an equal chance of winning the thing.

All other Leagues, and Grand Festival's had people who were experienced, more so than Ash or May.

I agree with whole of your post except for those three points. Lets see why:

1. Dawn wanted to be a coordinator from the start. Same thing was with Ash as he always wanted to be a master but what was he when he started? A noob. What was Dawn when she stared? a bigger noob. What was May when she started? not that big of a noob cause she at least knew how to use Poke balls.

2. Dawn lost in her appeal cause her appeals were crappy thats all. May didn't lost cause she was better at appeals. And May's appeals were more innovative.

3.May also won her ribbon fairly. At least she didn't got a fully evolved powerhouse to fight in GF.

I agree with everything dman_dustin said and I'll add this too:
Dawn is likely to leave at the end of the DP series... Ash, on the other hand, is likely to stay either forever or for at least another gen or two... and they constantly develope Ash's character over the years and make him slowly improve
It makes sense to give this win to Dawn before she leaves the show after all she went through (losing her confidence, getting her confidence back, learn to accept losing, overcome her fears, etc...) and also we know the writers did their best to make Dawn different than May so why not with the GF too? the writers also love to do the unexpected in DP so that's another thing
And most important is that we have the final promise... they didn't make a big deal of it for nothing

Oh and with the logic of "Dawn winning while Ash lose is an insult to Ash" (this sounds like something Scott would say XD ) then May already did it when she got Top 4 while Ash's best was Top 8
Stop with this insult crazines

She never got to Top 4. She was in Top 8 in Kanto. You can use some knowledge before speculating.

May also overcame her fears when Harley used his tricks to emotionally harm her in middle of contest. And things like becoming over confident and other stuff were also present in May.

One thing that is bugging me for long. If Ash won teo 6 on 6 battle in Hoenn league then how come he was Top 8 . He should be in Top 2.

 

[Iteru]

She never got to Top 4. She was in Top 8 in Kanto. You can use some knowledge before speculating.

She was top 8 in Hoenn, while top 4 in Kanto.
You can use some knowledge before speculating.

 

[double trouble!]

The preview surprised me. I thought the whole blaze rage thing was over.

 

[The Sinnoh guy]

I agree with whole of your post except for those three points. Lets see why:

1. Dawn wanted to be a coordinator from the start. Same thing was with Ash as he always wanted to be a master but what was he when he started? A noob. What was Dawn when she stared? a bigger noob. What was May when she started? not that big of a noob cause she at least knew how to use Poke balls.

2. Dawn lost in her appeal cause her appeals were crappy thats all. May didn't lost cause she was better at appeals. And May's appeals were more innovative.

3.May also won her ribbon fairly. At least she didn't got a fully evolved powerhouse to fight in GF.



She never got to Top 4. She was in Top 8 in Kanto. You can use some knowledge before speculating.

May also overcame her fears when Harley used his tricks to emotionally harm her in middle of contest. And things like becoming over confident and other stuff were also present in May.

One thing that is bugging me for long. If Ash won teo 6 on 6 battle in Hoenn league then how come he was Top 8 . He should be in Top 2.

Now that I've watched the whole Advance generation (Just finished yay! It was great.) May was pretty noobish as well. She didn't know how to weaken A Pokemon before capturing it or how to even use her Torchic. If your going to say Dawn was bad at throwing Poke balls, May sucked at using Torchic, she can't even say Ember right. The character's are suppose to have rookie and bad characteristics at the beginning so they can develop them into better characters. That's what character development is for. If your going to be bias and hate on a character then yeah, you can't see the development of every character then.

 

[Piplup]

1. Dawn wanted to be a coordinator from the start. Same thing was with Ash as he always wanted to be a master

Actually, Ash did NOT know about the Kanto League until episode 5 (Brock's first ep) when Nurse Joy randomly tell Ash to look at the conveniently placed poster... and then Ash randomly decide to challenge Gyms
Don't ask me what the Johto Ash thought he's going to do before this episode (randomly catching every Poké he see and challenge random trainers? XD ) but no, Ash didn't intend to challenge Gyms since the very first ep... May wasn't even interested in Pokémon at all... so it's only Dawn of the three stars that really knew what she's going to do long before she started her journey

but what was he when he started? A noob. What was Dawn when she stared? a bigger noob. What was May when she started? not that big of a noob cause she at least knew how to use Poke balls.

WTF? Do you even watch the show? Dawn was a "noob"?!?!?!?!....
Out of the three stars - May was the most "stupid" about Pokémon since she wasn't even interested in them until she started her journey and started to learn about them and to love them too
Ash was better than May since he at least was interested in Poké and knew a few basic things... while Dawn clearly knew a lot of things since the very beginning (makes sense as a daugther of a Top Coordinator, who dreamed to follow her mom's way all the time)
Dawn was the best of the three when you compare each one's first eps... both in her knowledge and her battles/Contests

2. Dawn lost in her appeal cause her appeals were crappy thats all. May didn't lost cause she was better at appeals. And May's appeals were more innovative.

Way to lie... again, do you even watch the show?
The judges actually LIKED Dawn's performance in Hearthome... they simply liked the others more... it's only in Solaceon that Dawn seriously did a mistake in her performance and that's called being a human - unlike May who, as much as I like her, got her ribbons pretty easily compared to Dawn...

3.May also won her ribbon fairly.

The writers sure made May's life much easier though...

At least she didn't got a fully evolved powerhouse to fight in GF.

Since when evolution matters in this show?......... thought so

She never got to Top 4. She was in Top 8 in Kanto. You can use some knowledge before speculating.

LOL!!!
Now I seriously think you really does NOT watch the show... XD
I think Scott is right - some people sure need to rewatch all eps and refresh their memory...
How the Route 217 could anyone forget a main character's placement in the big tournaments? Is that seriously possible? I've never seen anyone get it wrong until now...

May also overcame her fears when Harley used his tricks to emotionally harm her in middle of contest.

That whole Tentacool thing was pretty stupid if you ask me (her mom thought she was a Tentacool? seriously?...) and it came out of no where totally random...
With Dawn, they built up the Pikari nickname since the very beginning of the DP series and made a big deal of it until it eventually was explained and used against Dawn... complete with a detailed flashback and all! I also thought it was much more logical and something that I can understand a young girl being afraid of others to find out... it was also very cute

And things like becoming over confident and other stuff were also present in May.

They never made anything like that with May... maybe for a certain Contest she became overconfident but that wasn't a huge problem of her
You can't honestly compare that to Dawn getting overconfidence since her first ribbon win, thinking she'll meet Zoey in Hearthome's final only to not pass the performance, thn fail the performance again in Solaceon, lose her confidence and get depressed for a good amount of eps until she eventually got her confidence back... later showed some signs of being a little afraid of losing again (see Hearthome Collection and something else that I forgot I think) and then developing into the confident Coordinator that can accept losing that we saw in the Lillypad Contest - where she was totally calm about her lose and instead cheered up her Pokémon

May had great development too, but I think Dawn's was better...
Anyway - my point is that you're wrong: Dawn's story is NOT a repeat and not even close to May's story... they're completely different

One thing that is bugging me for long. If Ash won teo 6 on 6 battle in Hoenn league then how come he was Top 8 . He should be in Top 2.

How the Johto did you get to this conclusion?.... I can't remember the exact numbers of trainers in that League and how the battles went exactly, but you can go rewatch these eps and I'm sure you'll see it's logical...

 

[Cybersai]

You're all ridiculous.

The writers purposely made Ash, May and Dawn not have a clue what they were doing at the beginning. That way we could look at them in the end of their run and see how much they grew from when they started.

Look at how strong Ash is now, compared to the dumbass he was in Kanto. Same with the girls.

lol.

 

[The Sinnoh guy]

You're all ridiculous.

The writers purposely made Ash, May and Dawn not have a clue what they were doing at the beginning. That way we could look at them in the end of their run and see how much they grew from when they started.

Look at how strong Ash is now, compared to the dumbass he was in Kanto. Same with the girls.

lol.

I agree with everything you just said. They'll continue to do this once gen five starts as well. New girl, has problems in the beginning and becomes better in the end.

 

[Cybersai]

Agreed. The only reason we didn't see this with Misty/Brock is because they were already trainers/Gym leaders before Ash met them.

People seem to forget that Misty and Brock were actually trainers a bit longer than Ash was at the beginning. When we first see Misty she already has a Staryu, Starmie and Goldeen, and we see Brock as a Gym leader the first time.

 

[Hellion]

You're all ridiculous.

The writers purposely made Ash, May and Dawn not have a clue what they were doing at the beginning. That way we could look at them in the end of their run and see how much they grew from when they started.

Look at how strong Ash is now, compared to the dumbass he was in Kanto. Same with the girls.

lol.

I mysteriously agree with Scott. The point of any series is to developp the characters. You can't argue that they shouldn't win the league because they used to be rookies. The point of it all is they've progressed.

 

[Piplup]

I never said Dawn was a Top Coordinator when she started her journey, but to say she didn't know anything in the same way Ash and May were is just ridiculous... she knew what she's doing - she wasn't perfect, but she also wasn't really stupid either... that's all I tried to say... and I only talked about this because someone tried to say Dawn "didn't know anything" when she started her journey

 

[Cybersai]

Let's get back on topic....which I guess is the GF, but we have too many other threads about that.

So instead let's discuss the Sunyshore Gym battle. So what do you think will happen?

 

[Piplup]

I know it's unlikely but I kind of hope Volkner will have a mix of both his DP and Platinum teams... so they can make a full battle... but sadly I doubt it (too bad, I hoped to see Ambi again even if it's not the same one)
I guess he'll just have the Platinum team... (why do we need Electivire again after Gary and probably Paul soon too? I wonder what made them go with the Platinum team after they sticked to DP by now... maybe they didn't want Ambi/Octillery because they're not electric? anyway, at least we'll possibly see a Jolteon again! When was the last time we saw one?...

 

[Iteru]

I hope they do go part DP and have Okutank. That's why I like Denji, he throws a complete surprise at you.

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

Let's get back on topic....which I guess is the GF, but we have too many other threads about that.

So instead let's discuss the Sunyshore Gym battle. So what do you think will happen?

Luxray + Thunder Fang =apeshit blazing monkey.

And lots of yellow rodent action. And a very very minor turtle action. I hope we see Volkner using 6 Pokémon so everyone could get screentime, but I seriously doubt he will use 6.

I hope they do go part DP and have Okutank. That's why I like Denji, he throws a complete surprise at you.

I would rather like to see a combination of his D/P team and Platinum, with Ambipom and Jolteon I mean but it seems a bit unlikely now.

 

[Cybersai]

That made me think of something. They're not showing Volkner's Ambipom because they don't want to remind the audience of Dawn's old Ambipom since its not returning.

Yet Bertha had a Gliscor, which in-directly reminded us of Ash's Gliscor.

Anyone think that's a clue that the writers still plan for Gliscor's return? I always said if only one Pokemon would return, Gliscor had a better shot than Ambipom, I might be right.

 

[Iteru]

Luxray + Thunder Fang =apeshit blazing monkey.

Should be an Okutank + Water Spout = HGSS advertising.

Though Rentorar is cool.
Goukazaru better play up for the rest of the battle. It would be interesting if Denji had to give Satoshi the badge despite the monkey not listening to his orders at all.

I would rather like to see a combination of his D/P team and Platinum, with Ambipom and Jolteon I mean but it seems a bit unlikely now.

Iron Tailing Thunders? Everyone will love that
Though I agree. More pokes the better.

 

[RemRem]

I wonder...If we're going to have a 5th generation of pokemon...and the all things in the show are kinda' in hurry will we have Jotho Battle Frontier ??
I rlly wanna see some great battles with the frontier brains

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

Should be an Okutank + Water Spout = HGSS advertising.

Though Rentorar is cool.
Goukazaru better play up for the rest of the battle. It would be interesting if Denji had to give Satoshi the badge despite the monkey not listening to his orders at all.

Luxray Thunder Fanging Infernape to it's limits was what first came to my mind, but I guess it can be Electivire too. Octillery with Water Spout ? Remember, writers rarely use Egg Moves.
I'm not sure if Ash would accept it though. ASnd it would still be comsidered as a pity badge, right?
And don't worry, when there is a Blaze induced rage, there is also shittons of focus for Infernape.

Iron Tailing Thunders? Everyone will love that
Though I agree. More pokes the better.

Sure, everybody would love Pokémon who can randomly create an Iron body part from their posterior . Nothing compared to Iron Tailing Alakazam though .

I wonder...If we're going to have a 5th generation of pokemon...and the all things in the show are kinda' in hurry will we have Jotho Battle Frontier ??
I rlly wanna see some great battles with the frontier brains

New gen games announced for the end of 2010, no.

 

[Matt3225]

I know it's unlikely but I kind of hope Volkner will have a mix of both his DP and Platinum teams... so they can make a full battle... but sadly I doubt it (too bad, I hoped to see Ambi again even if it's not the same one)
I guess he'll just have the Platinum team... (why do we need Electivire again after Gary and probably Paul soon too? I wonder what made them go with the Platinum team after they sticked to DP by now... maybe they didn't want Ambi/Octillery because they're not electric? anyway, at least we'll possibly see a Jolteon again! When was the last time we saw one?...

Well they did the same thing in Hoenn with Juan being the gym leader instead of Wallace.

Atleast with Electivire it looks like Pika vs Rai isnt gonna be the major battle of the gym. Im gonna guess Gible will take out Jolteon, Torterra will take out Luxray, Infernape either Raichu or Electivire after it takes out Pikachu with Pikachu taking out Raichu instead. Hopefully Infernape will finally be able to control Blaze as it's getting old IMO