Primal Reversion

[The Outrage]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

Mewtwo Ancient De-Evolution confirmed.

 

[vivian20]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

I think devolution will be a feature of pokemon that are thousands of years old, like box mascots. Mewtwo has mega evolutions because its recently created, and it was born like the old mewtwo we've alwayas known . Diancie has a mega evolution because its ancient form , or devolution, would be a carbink, and nobody would like to turn diancie in carbink. Mega aerodactil is a mega evo because the aerodactil that is received from cientists was cloned from old ambar DNA, and was never a original aerodactil. Also, maybe devolution are more related to giratina-O than to mega evolution. So that, they might be able to be devolved even outside battle. Is it confirmed that devolution needs a hold item or that they cant be in that form outside battle?

 

[The Outrage]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

According to this translation:

(first part is blocked in crease but the rest of the sentence is “These two have “Origin Revival”
What on earth is this new power?!
In this state, these two possess incredible power from the energy of nature, this is “Origin Revival.” These forms are called “Origin Groudon” and “Origin Kyogre”!!
Groudon and Kyogre get even more powerful!!


They have regained their original power in the present times!
Will these two once again come to a disastrous clash with each other?

Don't take the name "Origin" too literally, its just the term the translator used.

The interesting part is the last part. They regained their original powers. Like I mentioned earlier, there are Pokemon who no longer have access to their original powers (e.g., Genesect, Kyurem). Perhaps this is what distinguishes Ancient De-evolution (still haven't seen any translation mention that term outside Serebii). Whereas Mega Evolution unleashes a Pokemon's hidden potential, a power they theoretically have inside them and is lying dormant, Ancient De-evolution restores a Pokemon's original power that they lost.

 

[Mitchman]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

Basically what I was expecting from.the moment they were revealed. What this probably means for the series is that as it goes on things will get clearer with whst megas are and how they bramch out to the various levels of power. Ancient devolution like I said in my first post would likely goto box legends and various others. Perhaps.even the fossil Mon?

 

[Silktree]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

The idea simply isn't interesting after Giratina and the Kami trio got very similar treatment via Formes (the latter were said to have been in their Therian Formes during their past clash). The only difference is that now the transformation will arbitrarily make Groudon and Kyogre stronger rather than just different.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

Ancient devolution does sound like having Ground and Kyogre returning to their original forms. I could easily see the Red and Blue Orbs causing them to change and factor into their rampage when they first awake in the games.

 

[Absolclaw]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

Well, we already have one case of a Primal Pokemon, who basically deevolved but possibly became more powerful in the mean time.

 

[Capricious Equilibrium]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

My take on it will be that they will have the same stats but shifting away from defense and more into offense

I believe that these are Origin Formes, like what Giratina has, and the fact that they're unleashing more power really makes me think this.

Anyone think that AD Kyogre and Groudon will have different abilities? I think not, considering how Drizzle and Drought are so integral to their legend.

Now Drizzle and Drought were expanded to another, mundane Pokémon, and both abilities were nerfed to stay 5 turns... Kyogre and Groudon need something like Eternal Drizzle and Eternal Drought.

Nah. We've been there and done that. It would be a waste of creativity. Yeah, Drizzle and Drought got nerfed but the game has adapted, bringing back just for these two seems like a waste. Remember, they can have any ability. Why just bringing back the past under a different name?

Because Drought and Drizzle are so important to them and their backstory? It's an integral part of them? Considering the fact that the two can make a whole region face drought and drizzles, it's only logical to give them this.

As I've learned, huge and primeval make a deadly combination.
Especially if it means they've lost all thought. Their destructive capabilities could make the manga's interpretation of the battle look tame. (if they were willing to go that far, that is...)

Come to think of it, will these formes even be usable in Wi-Fi battles? I don't think they were programmed into XY.

They will be. Giratina-O, Shaymin S were, as with Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W. If you versed a opponent using D/P or B/W, the game would treat your Pokemon like they were in their D/P or B/W forme, but if you faced a game where they are programmed in, BOOM! They work.

Also, don't forget X/Y can be patched.

As I said before, I believe that these two are actually similar to Giratina's Origin forme. The Adamant, Lustrous and Griseous orbs are similar to the Red, Blue and Jade orbs, as they contain part of that Pokemon's power. Hence, I believe that these two formes may just be similar to Origin forme, in that it's simple stat re-arrangement, though I'd be happy to be wrong.

 

[Balthier]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

Anyone think that AD Kyogre and Groudon will have different abilities? I think not, considering how Drizzle and Drought are so integral to their legend.

Now Drizzle and Drought were expanded to another, mundane Pokémon, and both abilities were nerfed to stay 5 turns... Kyogre and Groudon need something like Eternal Drizzle and Eternal Drought.

Nah. We've been there and done that. It would be a waste of creativity. Yeah, Drizzle and Drought got nerfed but the game has adapted, bringing back just for these two seems like a waste. Remember, they can have any ability. Why just bringing back the past under a different name?

I still think that's limiting what they can do. Kyogre in particular was super powerful when Drizzle lasted forever, but just bringing that back just robs it of an opportunity to try something new. Yes, flooding the land is a central part to the back story but Drizzle that last forever does not have to be the only way to drive that point home. It could have an ability called Leviathan for example, which floods the field and cause all non water type Pokemon 1/16 HP damage each turn (activates Water Absorb, turns Nature Power into Surf, etc). And Mega/Ancient Groudon could Tremor, which causes 1/16 damage to all Pokemon on the ground (turns Nature Power into Earthquare, does 1/8 to Pokemon that use Dig, etc). Or maybe an ability called Besalt, which in its animation shows pieces of volcanic rock calling like Hail, which causes damage to all Pokemon both in the air and on the ground. And there are more options.

My point is there is little need to go back, because literally anything is possible, with much more creative and interesting opportunities that could expand on their myths and legend than simply turning back the clock and giving it a different name.

 

[Capricious Equilibrium]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

My take on it will be that they will have the same stats but shifting away from defense and more into offense

Anyone think that AD Kyogre and Groudon will have different abilities? I think not, considering how Drizzle and Drought are so integral to their legend.

Now Drizzle and Drought were expanded to another, mundane Pokémon, and both abilities were nerfed to stay 5 turns... Kyogre and Groudon need something like Eternal Drizzle and Eternal Drought.

Nah. We've been there and done that. It would be a waste of creativity. Yeah, Drizzle and Drought got nerfed but the game has adapted, bringing back just for these two seems like a waste. Remember, they can have any ability. Why just bringing back the past under a different name?

Anyone think that AD Kyogre and Groudon will have different abilities? I think not, considering how Drizzle and Drought are so integral to their legend.

Now Drizzle and Drought were expanded to another, mundane Pokémon, and both abilities were nerfed to stay 5 turns... Kyogre and Groudon need something like Eternal Drizzle and Eternal Drought.

Nah. We've been there and done that. It would be a waste of creativity. Yeah, Drizzle and Drought got nerfed but the game has adapted, bringing back just for these two seems like a waste. Remember, they can have any ability. Why just bringing back the past under a different name?

I still think that's limiting what they can do. Kyogre in particular was super powerful when Drizzle lasted forever, but just bringing that back just robs it of an opportunity to try something new. Yes, flooding the land is a central part to the back story but Drizzle that last forever does not have to be the only way to drive that point home. It could have an ability called Leviathan for example, which floods the field and cause all non water type Pokemon 1/16 HP damage each turn (activates Water Absorb, turns Nature Power into Surf, etc). And Mega/Ancient Groudon could Tremor, which causes 1/16 damage to all Pokemon on the ground (turns Nature Power into Earthquare, does 1/8 to Pokemon that use Dig, etc). Or maybe an ability called Besalt, which in its animation shows pieces of volcanic rock calling like Hail, which causes damage to all Pokemon both in the air and on the ground. And there are more options.

My point is there is little need to go back, because literally anything is possible, with much more creative and interesting opportunities that could expand on their myths and legend than simply turning back the clock and giving it a different name.

Well actually, judging off of the screenshots on CoroCoro, they are keeping some form of Drought and Drizzle, as it's sunny in the Groudon pics, and rainy in the Kyogre pics. An eternal version of both abilities is the logic choice, due to both abilities being nerfed. Hence, when the two go back to their primal, unrefined raw forms, the rain and sun could last for eternity, as that is their main power.

 

[Osprey]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

So now they call them "Primordial Kyogre/Groudon". I'll still call them Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. Anyways, anyone betting on Primal Dialga and Primal Palkia showing up in future D/P remakes?

 

[vivian20]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

Primal arceus would be unbeatable... arceus with the power it had when created the UNIVERSE, wow. Maybe we will have dialga, palkia and giratina catchable in XY2/ Z, whatever. That orbs in zygard's cave are suspicious to me. In the place in wich you find the orbs, you might be able to open portals that lead to distortion world, space dimension and time dimension. Dialga, palkia and giratina at full power should be much more powerfull than groudon and kyogre. Groudon and kyogre can destroi all life in earth, a small planet in the universe. Dialga and palkia can destroi the universe and create a new one, and giratina has similar power . Arceus is the master of the group, probably banned giratina, and is more powerfull than all the three in the movies, and dialga and palkia couldnt move because they had a ring similar to arceus's . A arceus at really full power should only be beaten by another arceus.

 

[Tensho]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

A while ago pokebeach was posting the trademark of delta emerald. Made me think that Rayquaza can also primordial revive. Also, since they use the greek alphabets, we can possibly have 24 pokemon with this kind of power (wishful thinking).

 

[Silktree]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

I believe that these are Origin Formes, like what Giratina has, and the fact that they're unleashing more power really makes me think this.

How does more power suggest a stat re-arrangement? I don't believe that Origin Forme was ever referred to as a stronger version of Giratina. It was also called a Forme, so we already knew what to expect from it after Deoxys. Primal Groudon and Kyogre are not Formes.

 

[PhotonLegion]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

Wait... so All Legendary will get this Primal-Evolution when regulars pokemon get Mega???

Or Mega-Evolution is Primal-Evolution is same thing with different name???

Cause if they are same. The Mega-Dialce will be Primal-Dialce....

No, Mega Diancie was advertised as Mega Diancie. Groudon and Kyogre were not advertised as Megas, but as Primals (or what ever the localisation becomes). Though we may find that there are similarities between the two, they are two different things. As some have pointed out a Mega evolution is unlocking hidden potential, where as Primal Devolution appears to restore those affected to an 'ancient' state.

 

[Lugiafanatic]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

Does anyone know what exactly is meant (in the original Japanese) when fansites say "ancient devolution" and "regression"? Is that a mistranslation?

I really hope by "devolution" and "regression" they don't mean that they're far easier to battle/catch, thus being a cheap trick to dumb down the games for dumb little kiddies....

 

[Battaman]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

If you read the thread you're commenting on you'd see that this had been discussed already and that regression does not mean worse, weaker or is indeed a negative word. Thinking that regression is bad is like thinking that all new are better.

 

[Infinity Mk-II]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

Returning to how they were in ancient times, huh?

Ancient Magikarp confirmed.

Seriously though, it seems like a rebranded Mega Evolution just for them that makes them similar to Giratina Origin or KyuremB/W... (Although I definitely can see Rayquaza and possibly Zygarde ending up with a similar motif)

I'd really like if the concept applied to other pokémon though.

 

[Araragi-hakase]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

I'm not sure if it's 'weaker'. I was thinking of it along the lines of that in ancient times, more shit was going on so the pokemon had more reasons to use their powers, and were more powerful. Over time, they weren't using their strength as much and were just floating around the ocean or hiding in a volcano, so their current form is the one that is regressed a bit just from simply not having a reason to use their strength as often as they had before. So, for example, imagine that you used to work out 5 years ago, but you don't anymore. You're not as muscular as 5 years ago when you were using your muscles all the time, right? So, this new form/mega/whatever, isn't a regression as much as it is "this is how we looked a bajillion years ago when we were flexing our powers all the time and are at the top of our game". Just my theory ;P

 

[Silverwynde]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

Wait a minute! Mega Aerodactyl is said to have been hypothesized by scientists to be Aerodactyl's original form! Could Mega Aerodactyl relate to Ancient Devolution?

Heck, perhaps all the Mega Evolutions are! This is a wild theory, but what about, when the Ultimate Weapon was fired, it killed many things, took their energy... What if the Ultimate Machine sapped power from Pokemon of that period, and then stored it as Mega Stones!? Then, Ancient Devolution is a more primal equivalent of Mega Evolution, as Kyogre, Groudon, most other legends and Aerodactyl went extinct/into rest before this! We've seen that Pokemon can mutate and weaken, like Magikarp! Funnily enough, Gyarados has a Mega Evolution!

It seems that just as Mega Evolutions have 'Mega ________' as their name, Ancient Devolutions have 'Primal ________'.

Does a legend with Primal in front of it sound familiar? Reverting to something? Yes, it does! Primal Dialga! Primal Dialga reverted to a thoughtless, speechless beast who fought only to survive.

Primal Dialga, similar to Primal/Primevil/Ancient Kyogre and Groudon, has glowing outlines, and eyes changed color. Could we see a slightly redesigned Primal Dialga as an Ancient Devolution? Was it perhaps a inspiration? And could Giratina-O draw into this? Find out next wee-

Oh wait, wrong media.

You know, this could be a way for Golurk to get a Mega Evolution. Think about it: the big fella's been around for thousands of years; how do we know that the ones we have now were the exact same as in ancient times?

Answer: we don't. And knowing what little I do about golems in general, an Ancient Devolved Golurk would be an absolute holy terror and not to be trifled with. In general, a golem is fairly obedient but once that patience wears thin, run.

(Oddly enough, I'm probably one of the few that feel badly for the golem. Think about it: its been created for who knows what, has no control over its destiny and can be wiped out by its creator and no one would care. No one the poor creatures go mad and revolt. Wouldn't you?)