PSA: Gou is NOT a psychopath

[Daren]

the amazing hatred aimed at Alan after he won with his stronger more well-trained Lizardon

Alain was hated because of all the meta around the league hyping up the possibility of a win. They showed the failed shuriken in preview clips, talked up Ash's "strongest team ever", and Alain beat him several times before the league like Paul or Trip or Gary; he was written like the rivals who were set up as Ash's main challenge to overcome at the league, not like Harrison or such who were brought in at the last minute to defeat him. In addition, Alain had no interest in the league until the last minute when he then gathers a ton of badges at high speed.
Alain was hated because the show completely bungled the advertising and buildup to the league by hinting that Ash would finally win then pulling the rug out to deliver the status quo again. A plot twist that's more boring than the alternative is a terrible plot twist.

and the disdain Koharu gets for being weirded out by him.

I haven't seen this, myself. Mostly people thought the scene was funny and I haven't seen anyone dislike Koharu over it. Like Hidden Mew said I mostly see people wanting to see more of her.

Satoshi is the fandom’s golden boy so any disrespect to him causes a havoc.

Ash gets bashed constantly to the point people will assign completely ludicrous criticisms like calling him a Mary Sue.

 

[Adelon]

People are talking about Gou being a sociopath, but why is nobody talking about Koharu?

Her interactions with other characters show her to be rather cold and indifferent, if she was a real person I would not trust her even for a second, Iris was annoying but honestly she was genuinely harmless, but see how Koharu reacts when she sees Ash all fried up on the ground after the run in with the mean-spirited Yamper (okay, to be fair, Ash was kind of invading its space a bit but still ...).

Edit: I've just noticed the PSA about calling other characters sociopaths. I don't actually think Koharu is a sociopath either, she's a somewhat unpleasant person but lots of kids her age are like that to an extent without being evil.

 

[Charcoatl]

Wasn’t that a complaint that Ash got back in BW in that Ash caught more than his usual full team resulting in numerous of them getting little development? For whatever reason, the writers seem incapable of handling the development of multiple Pokémon belonging to a single trainer. As a result, I don’t see Go’s Pokémon really getting any development beyond cameo to show that it’s still alive.

I think the screentime most of Ash's captures received were fine. I don't know what the ones like Boldore, Palpitoad, Leavanny or Unfezant would do with additional screentime anyways. Sure, there still was favoritism and starters got more screentime than the others but I don't think the handling was as bad as people make it out to be. I don't agree it was the deciding factor that many of them them didn't evolve or performed poorly at the League. Looking at the non-BW series, more screentime didn't do that much for Ash's Pokémon development-wise.

 

[Pulsaro23]

It was that he was capturing Pokemon that shouldn't be caught, because doing so would throw off the balance of the world or whatever.

Makes you wonder how the balance of the world would've been affected had he managed to catch Ho-Oh (a one-of-a-kind Legendary Pokémon capable of resurrecting the dead and granting eternal happiness, who's also associated with certain weather phenomena) as he intended to.

*Ash does something terrible like ordering Pikachu to blow up a possibly inhabited building thrown at him and his friends/locks May in a small pod without an oxygen tank* "That's just bad writing. It's not Ash's fault."
*Side companions do something the fandom disagrees with like call Ash a kid/restructure the anime into Pokemon GO the Series* "Here's my essay on why this character is evil."

Wanna know what's the difference between those two cases you just mentioned? The fact that Ash's been around for 20+ years and has had enough screen time and character development for people to know what his personality is and how he should act. That's why, when you have stuff like Ash wanting to catch a Pokémon that's been traveling with him so he could stop it from leaving him, despite having been made crystal clear in many of the anime's previous episodes that he's more than willing to release his Pokémon if that's what they'd want or if it would make them happier, people are gonna call it an out-of-character moment and blame the writers for their poor writing. Meanwhile, characters like Iris and Go haven't been around for that long and when people see them acting smug and rude and berating a more experienced trainer or see them obsessed with catching Pokémon due to a desire to have their very own living Pokédex with very little concern for the Pokémon (and when those characteristics are very prevalent), people are gonna assume that that's just how the characters and their personalities are supposed to be.

Anyway if you think Gou is awful, you are too in-universe whenever you play a Pokemon game. Probably worse, because Gou does interact with his captures even if it's minimal and they get to hang out at a lab, whereas your player characters just leave things to rot in a box which may or may not have a tropical paradise built into them.

First off all, not only are the games and the anime taking place in two completely different universes, but they are two completely different types of media. The games are a more interactive medium that require the player's input in order and the worlds in those games are often shaped by the players' actions (which is why the PCs are such blank slates: so that the players can give them their own personalities or even project themselves onto them), leaving some stuff open to the player's interpretation. There's also the fact that in most games (especially the early ones), Pokémon barely have any personalities and are sometimes even treated as nothing more than digital data. Meanwhile, in the anime (which lacks interactivity with the viewers and the amount of personal interpretation is more minimal), Pokémon have always been portrayed as sentient beings that are as smart as humans (and sometimes even smarter than them), who have their own likes and dislikes, their own dreams and aspirations, their own desires, their own personality. So you can't just have them be treated as some kind of collectible like in the games and expect that to work.

Second of all, not all people play Pokémon that way. Some players (like myself) enjoy catching a small amount of Pokémon and building a team of their favorites from a region or from the entire franchise. Why do you think some people want walking Pokémon, a feature that allows you to interact with your partners, to return to the main series? Because some of us enjoy interacting with their Pokémon more than just mindlessly catching them and stuffing them in a box.

Third of all, the games have actually been taking steps towards making the Pokémon feel more alive and offering options where you get to connect with them, while also making it less ethically dubious to catch them. We have features like Pokémon-Amie, Pokémon Refresh and Pokémon Camp, where players get to interact with their Pokémon, play with them, feed them and take care of them. They even introduced stuff like the Poké Pelago, where the boxed Pokémon get to hang out, relax and have fun, while also training to become stronger. Meanwhile, the anime seems to have taken a step backwards in that regard, as now not only is it considered acceptable to capture Pokémon en masse (which turns the Pokémon into nothing more than lifeless collectibles devoid of personality), but it is actually encouraged and considered outstanding.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Anyway if you think Gou is awful, you are too in-universe whenever you play a Pokemon game. Probably worse, because Gou does interact with his captures even if it's minimal and they get to hang out at a lab, whereas your player characters just leave things to rot in a box which may or may not have a tropical paradise built into them.

Firstly, there’s one fact everyone using this argument likes to ignore: they’re not the same universe. Some things are included for gameplay purposes which do not make sense in the anime universe. The anime has often gone out of its way to establish ideals different from the games. There are no levels or TMs.

It is an irrelevant argument because we’re not talking about the same universe at all.

(PSsecond, try telling that to my game saves where the only Pokemon I captured were the ones I trained since younger-me didn’t want them to rot in a box. (And who taught me that? This very anime)

 

[LazySpy]

But I could probably still tolerate that if it weren't for the fact that those of us who defend Go (which is like maybe 5 people?) are being drowned out by at least 20 others who just hate Go for their own reasons and refuse to back down from their 'Go's a psychopath/sociopath!' stance. It's a war of attrition and it's driven me to finally decide to leave this forum. So congratulations.

And you know what tires me?

What tires me is that it's not people criticizing Gou, it's people defending him who jumped at their opposition with 'you're stupid/hypocrites/too emotionally compulsive to absorb objective information/repeat each other's words/looking for reasons to dislike Gou' et cetera all just because a small portion of people started calling him a psychopath. And mind you, that portion of people stoped doing that. Admins forbid that behaviour, for gods sake, just two hours before you wrote this!

People have finally started acknowledging and comprehending the reallity that he's not a psycho, some of his critics (like me) never made such claims in the first place.
And yet, we still Gou through this crazy dance that there's something wrong with people criticizing Gou.

I'm tired of the fact that it's people like you who are actually attacking and offending others over what's soon bound to become a dead meme, and yet you act like the victims, almost like you're trying to say that the hate at Gou isn't targeted at him, but at you. From all the discussions I've seen, it's Gou critics who calmly present and review their points, when people like you dismiss all of them for reasons you've entirelly made up. You're taking all of this way too personally and way too setiously.

All conversations regarding Gou will eventually have less to do with Gou being a psychopath, and more to do with the writing flaws of this series and issues with his characterization, heck, they are already such. Too bad you can't see through it and think you're being hurt.

 

[Sweet Veil]

Wanna know what's the difference between those two cases you just mentioned? The fact that Ash's been around for 20+ years and has had enough screen time and character development for people to know what his personality is and how he should act. That's why, when you have stuff like Ash wanting to catch a Pokémon that's been traveling with him so he could stop it from leaving him, despite having been made crystal clear in many of the anime's previous episodes that he's more than willing to release his Pokémon if that's what they'd want or if it would make them happier, people are gonna call it an out-of-character moment and blame the writers for their poor writing. Meanwhile, characters like Iris and Go haven't been around for that long and when people see them acting smug and rude and berating a more experienced trainer or see them obsessed with catching Pokémon due to a desire to have their very own living Pokédex with very little concern for the Pokémon (and when those characteristics are very prevalent), people are gonna assume that that's just how the characters and their personalities are supposed to be..

Which is insane, a lot of the hate aimed at characters I’ve seen over the years in the fandom usually has to do with fans being angry because another characters focus/growth/accomplishments undermine Satoshi. Gou, Satoshi, Corni, Alan, Suiren, are just a few examples from the past grew series of characters who I noticed got a fair amount of disdain just because they did something that caused Satoshi to look not as good. It just gets old, again I have no doubt their are legit writing issues I myself have with a few of these characters but when you have toxic language flung at characters like Iris for getting a fully-evolved Kairyu then people giving Satoshi a pat on the butt for it it’s hard to ignore. “Psychopath?” REALLY? Just because a character named Gou caught Pokémon so people felt like it was holding Satoshi back from catching them? People can be disappointed in Satoshi’s Kalos league loss without writing essays on why Alan’s a criminal who should be jailed instead of a child being manipulated who made terrible life choices. His Mega Lizardon-X is unfair but not Satoshi’s literal snowflake magic Gekkouga?

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

I feel like this thread needs a new name. People are still jumping in for the psychopath thing when nobody’s even seriously talking about that anymore.

 

[Pulsaro23]

Which is insane, a lot of the hate aimed at characters I’ve seen over the years in the fandom usually has to do with fans being angry because another characters focus/growth/accomplishments undermine Satoshi.

Well, that's a new defense towards Go, I'll give you that. Though I really have a hard time believing that that's the cause for why a character is hated or that it happens that often. Usually, what actually happens is that people find that character to be bad do to the way it is written, do to its personality and/or due to it having it too easy and achieving things with minimal effort.

Gou, Satoshi, Corni, Alan, Suiren, are just a few examples from the past grew series of characters who I noticed got a fair amount of disdain just because they did something that caused Satoshi to look not as good.

Ash gets a fair amount of hatred because he makes Ash not look that good? I... I don't get.

Anyways, where's this Korrina hatred you mentioned? 'Cause I haven't heard of it before and I really don't know what she would've done to cause her to be disliked as Alain or Iris. As for the others: Alain and (to a lesser extent) Lana were more so victims of false advertising and overhype, while Go is mainly disliked do to the shoehorned Pokémon GO mechanics that he keeps on using and the way his goal clashes with what's been established before in the anime. A lot more than just them making "Ash to look not as good".

but when you have toxic language flung at characters like Iris for getting a fully-evolved Kairyu then people giving Satoshi a pat on the butt for it it’s hard to ignore.

Except that there's this thing called context that seems to be missing from your equivalence. Mainly, how Iris came off as irritating and annoying, how she was given a bunch of achievements without working that hard for them (like her Axew learning overpowered moves like Outrage or Giga Impact), how she didn't get to spend that much time bonding with Dragonite and how his disobedience got solved exactly in the same that Iris managed to make it to stay with her, while Ash actually spent most of the episode bonding with his Dragonite back when it was a Dragonair and helping it learn how fly and how that, combined with the fact that it's so friendly, make Ash getting his be less outrageous.

“Psychopath?” REALLY? Just because a character named Gou caught Pokémon so people felt like it was holding Satoshi back from catching them?

Might be a little too far, but it is mostly used as a joke (even if it's a sour one). Also, people dislike his method of catching, the fact he has such an easy time with his captures and the fact that his goal is shallow and doesn't really make a lot of sense (how is catching all of his Pokémon that ever was and will ever be supposed to lead to Mew?), not the fact that he's hindering Ash and that he's stopping him from catching Pokémon (that was a fear that people had, but the recent episode obviously alleviated it).

People can be disappointed in Satoshi’s Kalos league loss without writing essays on why Alan’s a criminal who should be jailed instead of a child being manipulated who made terrible life choices.

And where is this essay that calls for Alain's beheading? I know of the essay that explained why Ash loosing the Kalos League is terrible for multiple reasons, but I don't remember it saying anything about Alain being "a criminal who should be jailed". Again, the hatred was more as a result of poor writing and overhyping people (with some misleading titles being thrown into the mix as well) and it's not soley do to him making Ash look bad.

His Mega Lizardon-X is unfair but not Satoshi’s literal snowflake magic Gekkouga?

Well, Alain's Charizard lost only once out of the dozens of battles it had. Meanwhile, Ash and his Greninja had to struggle to be able to use it to its fullest and even ended up on a loosing streak despite using it, so it wasn't always guaranteed to win a battle. Definitely looks like one of these is far more unfair than the other.

 

[Karamazov]

Makes you wonder how the balance of the world would've been affected had he managed to catch Ho-Oh (a one-of-a-kind Legendary Pokémon capable of resurrecting the dead and granting eternal happiness, who's also associated with certain weather phenomena) as he intended to.

Probably nothing, since I don't think Ho-Oh has that big of an affect on the environment. And I doubt that Go would know about the rammifications. Especially when no one has caught Ho-Oh to show if there are any bad side-effects, and other legends have been caught by trainers.

Anyway, I'm dipping out of this thread. It's getting way too heated on both sides, and I'm not having fun. If anyone wants to continue discussing and debating Go with me or w/e, feel free to reach out via PM. But I don't want to wade through drama to talk. Not trying to call anyone out, but I gotta say that I'm not a fan of the thread's current vibe.

 

[Panky..]

Probably nothing, since I don't think Ho-Oh has that big of an affect on the environment. And I doubt that Go would know about the rammifications. Especially when no one has caught Ho-Oh to show if there are any bad side-effects, and other legends have been caught by trainers.

Ho-oh is associated with rebirth and regeneration, so I'd say it would have a big impact. Don't forget that the captures of the Legendary Bird trio in movie 2 had quite an impact on the world biosphere and Pokemon in general. And what do you mean Gou would not know the ramification? I'm pretty this character was established as a slightly arrogant know-it-all from the very first episode who was very much into researching Pokemon. He should definitely know the ramifications or at least take the consequences of capturing a one of a kind godly Pokemon into account.

Anyway, I'm dipping out of this thread. It's getting way too heated on both sides, and I'm not having fun. If anyone wants to continue discussing and debating Go with me or w/e, feel free to reach out via PM. But I don't want to wade through drama to talk. Not trying to call anyone out, but I gotta say that I'm not a fan of the thread's current vibe.

So far I've only noticed Gou defenders being the ones getting heated or emotional, taking what started out as a joke very seriously and making a big issue out of it, not to mention attacking anyone who criticizes the character then proceeding to behave as if they were the victim of brigading. Post #87 on this thread is a perfect example of that.

 

[Pulsaro23]

Probably nothing, since I don't think Ho-Oh has that big of an affect on the environment. And I doubt that Go would know about the rammifications. Especially when no one has caught Ho-Oh to show if there are any bad side-effects, and other legends have been caught by trainers.

We're talking about a Pokémon that can bring other living beings back to life and create entirely new species of Pokémon (assuming some of the mythos from the games are canon to the anime as well), who can bring everlasting joy to others, who might have some control over raining and rainbows. You really telling me that such a Pokémon being caught and restricted to a laboratory's park won't have nay kind of negative impact on the world's ecosystem? Go not knowing it makes it even worse and makes him look selfish and closeminded. And that's assuming that a character who's been established to be a pompous know-it-all wouldn't know how catching a one-of-a-kind Legendary.

As for other people having captured Legendaries and Mythicals before, usually those Pokémon are of species that are shown to have more than one member. We've seen multiple Legendary birds and Legendary dogs (some of which were even shinies, confirming that they're different from the ones we've seen before), we know for a fact that there's more than one Latios and Latias, we've seen multiple Lugia and even Lugia babies, we've seen multiple Regi titans, Heatran, Shaymin, Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza. So we can assume that capturing some of these will not have a negative impact (as long as they are not vital to the ecosystem, like the Legendary birds from The Power of One), though, personally, I'd prefer if the only people who manage to catch a Legendary would be those who are skilled enough to be able to tame and train one (like Pokémon Champions, the Elite Four or Frontier Brains), rather than beginners like Go. Ho-Oh, on the other hand, is one of a kind as far as we know in the anime (just like Meloetta, the creation trio, the Forces of Nature, the tapus, the lake guardians etc.), so catching it will most certainly have some kind of impact.

 

[Sweet Veil]

*snip*

Thanks for proving my point.

I appreciate the replies but it more or less exemplifies how I feel about there always being an excuse for fueled by other characters at the expense of Satoshi’s treatment. I came see why anyone who likes Gou would go crazy reading this type of content everyday. Maybe I’m just salty? But whatever, I’m not that active in these threads anyway or this section and the culture will be what it’ll be whether I like it or not so I guess I should just let it be. Not like there aren’t fandom platforms readily available that are mostly fine with Gou and I can’t afford to fall back in my old bad habits. Discussion should be fun as well as debating and it’s not like I’m going to change anyone’s mind.

 

[Almonds]

We're in the middle of a transition. Now that we're getting more Ash-centric/battle-centric titles for the next few episodes, I'm seeing a lot more positivity. Especially with Leon coming up for possible inspiration.

Which is insane, a lot of the hate aimed at characters I’ve seen over the years in the fandom usually has to do with fans being angry because another characters focus/growth/accomplishments undermine Satoshi.

Ash is the fan-favorite hero after all.

 

[Neo Blaze]

The A&M staff has decided to put an end to this thread as the entire reason this thread was opened in the first place has been addressed in a seperate PSA.

Besides that, it has become more and more clear that the character of Go is a heated topic and elicits some strong emotions. This is prevalent on both sides of the argument. Yes, both. If you really believe only one side is to blame for turning this thread into a heated battleground, I strongly advise you to do some serious self-reflection. We are discussing an animated character from an anime primarily focused on a younger audience here. NOT politics. NOT religion. NOT society. An animated character.

Of course, being a fan sometimes means you hold strong opinions on something, and sometimes debates get a bit on the heated site. As a mod team, we try to not interfere in discussion too much, but there's no reason for this thread to become so toxic as it has become. The major issues of today's real world and society are already controversial enough. A lot of people come here to escape those issues, not fall into yet another toxic debate, one that (for goodness sake) is about an animated character.

We may or may not open another Go thread in the near future. Of course we want to be able to facilitate a central place to discuss the character of Go, but not in the way that the discussion has developed in this very thread. Respect for either side of the argument is dwindling (both when it comes to Go and in this section in general), which is shameful to see.