Puerto Rico Votes to Become 51st U.S. State

[DerMißingno]

Also, Alaska and Hawaii were both admitted to the union at the same time, so I'm pretty sure that the political composition of Congress in 1959 didn't have much to do with it since those states tend to be on opposite ends of the political spectrum and have been throughout their histories (with the exception of electoral landslides like 1964, 1972 and 1984).

That's not true, Alaska was admitted in January 1959 and Hawaii was admitted in August 1959. During that time, the US flag had 49 stars.

 

[Articwolf10]

Well PR has been a commonwealth for well over a century and have been american citizens since 1917... becoming a state would make sense...

 

[Goodbye Blue Monday]

Also, Alaska and Hawaii were both admitted to the union at the same time, so I'm pretty sure that the political composition of Congress in 1959 didn't have much to do with it since those states tend to be on opposite ends of the political spectrum and have been throughout their histories (with the exception of electoral landslides like 1964, 1972 and 1984).

That's not true, Alaska was admitted in January 1959 and Hawaii was admitted in August 1959. During that time, the US flag had 49 stars.

Thanks for fact-checking, you're right. They were admitted in the same year, though, I figured that political considerations re: how they would go in the electoral college weren't a big deal if they decided to admit both of them.

 

[DerMißingno]

Also, Alaska and Hawaii were both admitted to the union at the same time, so I'm pretty sure that the political composition of Congress in 1959 didn't have much to do with it since those states tend to be on opposite ends of the political spectrum and have been throughout their histories (with the exception of electoral landslides like 1964, 1972 and 1984).

That's not true, Alaska was admitted in January 1959 and Hawaii was admitted in August 1959. During that time, the US flag had 49 stars.

Thanks for fact-checking, you're right. They were admitted in the same year, though, I figured that political considerations re: how they would go in the electoral college wasn't a big deal if they decided to admit both of them.

Yeah your point was still valid, the only reason I knew that was because my dad told me how he begged his dad to get a 49 star flag when they came out but he didn't get it and everyone else did, but then they were the first house on the block to get a 50 star flag when they came out 6 months later.

 

[Big Lutz]

I honestly do not see Puerto Rico coming in, not because it could be a Red State or Blue State, but because it is mired in poverty. 80% of Puerto Rico's children live in high poverty areas. Many of their schools cannot provide even the most basic in study materials. Puerto Rico's poverty rate is about 45%. And their water and sewage system is said to be terrible.

Study: Puerto Rico's children mired in poverty that dwarfs rest of U.S. - CNN

To put it plainly, if it were admitted as a state, it would require a TON of money to get it up to standards. And if people haven't noticed spending a ton of money is not really politically popular in Washington, especially when we have our own infrastructure problems.

Then again Congress over the past two decades has shown a keen interest in "Nation Building".

 

[Goodbye Blue Monday]

To put it plainly, if it were admitted as a state, it would require a TON of money to get it up to standards. And if people haven't noticed spending a ton of money is not really politically popular in Washington, especially when we have our own infrastructure problems.

States as a whole might not have those rates of poverty, but a lot of U.S. cities get close (for example, I wouldn't be surprised if Detroit and Flint, MI were up there) as well as some very depressed rural areas (like the Mississippi Delta region). Some of them even have infrastructure problems (Detroit, again). The federal government hasn't seen much reason to help with that stuff recently, I'm not sure why they would feel the need to do anything about Puerto Rico just to admit it as a state.

(and don't use the auto bailout as a counter-example in terms of Detroit, that just helped to keep its economy from completely tanking, but as a native Detroiter I can tell you there are much more deep-seated problems with the region's economy and infrastructure that that did not address and that both local and federal governments still don't seem that interested in addressing)

 

[Big Lutz]

States as a whole might not have those rates of poverty, but a lot of U.S. cities get close (for example, I wouldn't be surprised if Detroit and Flint, MI were up there) as well as some very depressed rural areas (like the Mississippi Delta region). Some of them even have infrastructure problems (Detroit, again). The federal government hasn't seen much reason to help with that stuff recently, I'm not sure why they would feel the need to do anything about Puerto Rico just to admit it as a state.

(and don't use the auto bailout as a counter-example in terms of Detroit, that just helped to keep its economy from completely tanking, but as a native Detroiter I can tell you there are much more deep-seated problems with the region's economy and infrastructure that that did not address and that both local and federal governments still don't seem that interested in addressing)

Well if we have areas with that much problems, should we not focus on repairing those areas and not bring in a state which, from those numbers, suggest it is a third world state? I agree that we have not focused as much on infrastructure in the last decade, but that seems to be turning. As the President said on the campaign trail "It's time to stop building over there, and focus on building over here" or something to that effect. Furthermore I would thing there is atleast a minimum standard in terms of regulations that a area has to meet or else they receive money to reconstruct it.

 

[Goodbye Blue Monday]

States as a whole might not have those rates of poverty, but a lot of U.S. cities get close (for example, I wouldn't be surprised if Detroit and Flint, MI were up there) as well as some very depressed rural areas (like the Mississippi Delta region). Some of them even have infrastructure problems (Detroit, again). The federal government hasn't seen much reason to help with that stuff recently, I'm not sure why they would feel the need to do anything about Puerto Rico just to admit it as a state.

(and don't use the auto bailout as a counter-example in terms of Detroit, that just helped to keep its economy from completely tanking, but as a native Detroiter I can tell you there are much more deep-seated problems with the region's economy and infrastructure that that did not address and that both local and federal governments still don't seem that interested in addressing)

Well if we have areas with that much problems, should we not focus on repairing those areas and not bring in a state which, from those numbers, suggest it is a third world state? I agree that we have not focused as much on infrastructure in the last decade, but that seems to be turning. As the President said on the campaign trail "It's time to stop building over there, and focus on building over here" or something to that effect. Furthermore I would thing there is atleast a minimum standard in terms of regulations that a area has to meet or else they receive money to reconstruct it.

Point taken. But maybe having to deal with a new state with such extreme poverty levels would help the U.S. government to see that they have a lot of urban and rural areas where conditions are not so different? Maybe I'm just being optimistic though.

 

[Big Lutz]

Point taken. But maybe having to deal with a new state with such extreme poverty levels would help the U.S. government to see that they have a lot of urban and rural areas where conditions are not so different? Maybe I'm just being optimistic though.

That is probably true I just can't see why we have to add to our problem before we can address it.

And could please some one answer this: What does Puerto Rico offer us in return of becoming a state?

In Alaska we got vast natural resources, in Hawaii we got a massive vacation destination that draws in billions. In Puerto Rico it seems we get... a third world country that needs fixing. Is there some upside to this I am not seeing other than adding a star?

 

[DerMißingno]

If Puerto Rico really needs that much help then I say all the more reason to admit it as a state. If Puerto Rico becoming a state will help people there get out of poverty then I say let Puerto Rico become a state. We've spent a lot of tax dollars trying to fix countries that didn't ask us to fix them, why not invest in a place that is asking?

 

[Shinobu]

Puerto Rico factors into revenue and expenditures for the US federal government as is. Statehood would require Puerto Ricans to pay federal income taxes. It would also result in more federal Medicaid funding. I don't know too much about this subject so I'm not sure what else statehood could change.

 

[Goodbye Blue Monday]

Puerto Rico factors into revenue and expenditures for the US federal government as is. Statehood would require Puerto Ricans to pay federal income taxes. It would also result in more federal Medicaid funding. I don't know too much about this subject so I'm not sure what else statehood could change.

Yeah, that's another thing I was going to address; it's not like Puerto Rico is just now being added to the country, it's always been a territory. Why would the government necessarily have to be more invested in it than it was before? And now at least with Puerto Ricans paying federal taxes we'd get more of a return on our investment.

And could please some one answer this: What does Puerto Rico offer us in return of becoming a state?

In Alaska we got vast natural resources, in Hawaii we got a massive vacation destination that draws in billions. In Puerto Rico it seems we get... a third world country that needs fixing. Is there some upside to this I am not seeing other than adding a star?

Puerto Rico has a tropical climate and is located in the Caribbean, it could be a potential vacation destination as well with some fixing-up.

(this discussion is going to start sounding like the beginning of "America" from West Side Story pretty soon, lol)

 

[Big Lutz]

Yeah, that's another thing I was going to address; it's not like Puerto Rico is just now being added to the country, it's always been a territory. Why would the government necessarily have to be more invested in it than it was before? And now at least with Puerto Ricans paying federal taxes we'd get more of a return on our investment.

I honestly cannot see the Government allowing the state to continue to have a third world education, water, and sewage system. Having it be a territory is one thing, having it as a state and thus probably subject to all the regulations seems totally different. Besides with all the poverty there, are we really going to get that much in terms of taxes?

Puerto Rico has a tropical climate and is located in the Caribbean, it could be a potential vacation destination as well with some fixing-up.

(this discussion is going to start sounding like the beginning of "America" from West Side Story pretty soon, lol)

Hmm fair enough.

 

[Goodbye Blue Monday]

@Big Lutz; You're probably right for the most part about federal income taxes, though I'm sure there are some rich people in Puerto Rico and at least we would be able to collect from them and use the money to help rebuild the island as well as other parts of the U.S. that are struggling. As for infrastructure, a lot of western states were not very built-up when they were admitted to the Union, so there's precedent for that, even if in those states it was more due to lack of population than it was to poverty.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, especially with the point about how we could probably help some hard-hit areas here, first (certainly, as a native Detroiter I would like to see my hometown get some aid soon), but I just think there are two sides to this.

(btw, wasn't dismissing this conversation with my West Side Story comment, just that I noticed the comparison as a big musical theater fan - if you didn't click the link, the song is a big argument between Anita and another character (varies based on the version) about whether their life in New York or Puerto Rico is better)

 

[Caitlin]

I honestly cannot see the Government allowing the state to continue to have a third world education, water, and sewage system. Having it be a territory is one thing, having it as a state and thus probably subject to all the regulations seems totally different.

Aren't most infrastructural regulations under state government jurisdiction instead of federal jurisdiction? I know that my various trade licenses for electrical, plumbing etc are more or less worthless pieces of paper when I cross state lines unless it's for an emergency. I imagine if my licenses, which cover a lot of the basic infrastructure, are null and void elsewhere, it's a state regulation rather than a federal one.

...though we do have nation-wide code regulations for electrical, so I dunno. Just a thought.

 

[Big Lutz]

Aren't most infrastructural regulations under state government jurisdiction instead of federal jurisdiction? I know that my various trade licenses for electrical, plumbing etc are more or less worthless pieces of paper when I cross state lines unless it's for an emergency. I imagine if my licenses, which cover a lot of the basic infrastructure, are null and void elsewhere, it's a state regulation rather than a federal one.

...though we do have nation-wide code regulations for electrical, so I dunno. Just a thought.

I believe the EPA through the Clean Water Act and Safe Drinking Water laws have final say in these things.

 

[Shinobu]

I honestly cannot see the Government allowing the state to continue to have a third world education, water, and sewage system.

We do have places like that in America (Pine Ridge Reservation and areas in Appalachia are some of the well known ones), so I'm not sure if Puerto Rico would be too different.

 

[Big Lutz]

We do have places like that in America (Pine Ridge Reservation and areas in Appalachia are some of the well known ones), so I'm not sure if Puerto Rico would be too different.

I would think that Indian Reservations like the Pine Ridge Reservation is outside of the Government's Jurisdiction. Other than that I cannot see how Puerto Rico could be out of the reach of EPA Rules and Regulations. The same would go for the Department of Education.

 

[TheDarkLord]

From an economic standpoint this seem to be a rather questionable move because economic help to puerto rico almost seems inevitable. This outflow of cash at a time when the US debt clock is at 16 trillion dollars seems to be a further burden on the US. I just cant see economic gain from this.

 

[Shinobu]

I would think that Indian Reservations like the Pine Ridge Reservation is outside of the Government's Jurisdiction. Other than that I cannot see how Puerto Rico could be out of the reach of EPA Rules and Regulations. The same would go for the Department of Education.

I'm a little unfamiliar with this. Even then, my earlier point isn't diminished because there are non-tribal areas in America with incredibly sub-standard conditions.