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Questions about some older episodes

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I haven't posted here in quite a while, so I'm not sure if this content has been brought up in recent topics.
On New Year's weekend, I plan to attend SacAnime, where Veronica Taylor is a scheduled guest and had some questions I was thinking about asking her. But I'm not sure whether or not there's been any light shed on them.

What I was thinking of asking her was:
1. How come Beauty and the Beach was only aired twice?
2. Why did the Dratini episode get banned, but not Here Comes The Squirtle Squad? Sure, the Dratini episode had Ash being held at gunpoint, but how different was it from the scene in the Squirtle episode when he walked into the convenience store?
3. Why were some of the Johto episodes aired out of order?
4. When the Japanese chose to have Brock leave after the Indigo era, was the choice made before or after the dub started?

If anyone knows if there are answers to these questions, let me know. I have a lot of ideas for stuff to ask her, but if the questions listed have answers, it'll help.
Also, has anyone here ever met Veronica before? I've heard she's very friendly.
 
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Here is what bulbapedia says about beauty and the beach:
"Of the four banned episodes that have aired on Japanese television, this is the first one that was banned in all countries outside of Asia. The reason why the episode is "banned" was because there is a scene halfway in when James crossdresses and wears inflatable breasts for a beauty contest. Although intended for comic effect, the nature of the scene caused so much controversy that the whole episode was banned for almost 3 years, until it was aired as a heavily cut version that was only 18 minutes long. This edited version was titled "The Lost Episode" when it aired in 2000. The ending of this episode was shown as a flashback in the dub of Hypno's Naptime. According to Diana Pérez, the voice actress for Jessie in Latin America, this episode was dubbed into Latin American Spanish. She additionally commented that when dubbing anime, the dub staff usually receives the uncensored versions instead of the already-cut 4Kids-edited version. This could mean that the episode was translated by Western dubbers, since these are all based on the US version, but it was still never aired for those regions."

I don't know the other answers though, sorry.
 
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I haven't posted here in quite a while, so I'm not sure if this content has been brought up in recent topics.
On New Year's weekend, I plan to attend SacAnime, where Veronica Taylor is a scheduled guest and had some questions I was thinking about asking her. But I'm not sure whether or not there's been any light shed on them.

What I was thinking of asking her was:
1. How come Beauty and the Beach was only aired twice?
2. Why did the Dratini episode get banned, but not Here Comes The Squirtle Squad? Sure, the Dratini episode had Ash being held at gunpoint, but how different was it from the scene in the Squirtle episode when he walked into the convenience store?
3. Why were some of the Johto episodes aired out of order?
4. When the Japanese chose to have Brock leave after the Indigo era, was the choice made before or after the dub started?

If anyone knows if there are answers to these questions, let me know. I have a lot of ideas for stuff to ask her, but if the questions listed have answers, it'll help.
Also, has anyone here ever met Veronica before? I've heard she's very friendly.
  1. The edited version of Beauty and the Beach, while still watchable, is still kind of risqué. Probably the reason why it's never been reaired, but certainly not an excuse for why it's never been released on DVD.
  2. While both had guns, the difference is that Kaiser actually SHOT at Team Rocket, while Ash only had a bunch of shotguns in his face. (And according to Bulbapedia, Legend of Dratini WAS dubbed and was going to be aired, but the network, AKA WB shut it down because of the guns, not 4Kids.)
  3. I have no idea.
  4. They said they didn't want English speaking audiences to see the squinty-eyed, dark-skinned Brock as an offensive Asian stereotype (which is stupid, considering Asians were the ones who made him). When they realized no one was complaining like they did with Jynx, they brought him back and got rid of Tracey.
If I were you, I would ask her if she has been asked to return to the anime as other characters, like Dan Green, Rachael Lillis and Billy Beach have. Even if the original cast will never return as Ash, Jessie and James, it would be nice to at least have them come back, period.

And I would also ask her if the long-rumored dub edits of Legend Of Dratini, Electric Soldier Porygon and The Ice Cave (EP252) actually exist. Bulbapedia has conflicting information on all three.
 
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Paladin Elric said:
1. How come Beauty and the Beach was only aired twice?
It was dubbed as a special episode that wasn't a part of any of the season packages that Kids' WB! bought. Airing it was like airing Destiny Deoxys; a one or two time deal and then that was it.

2. Why did the Dratini episode get banned, but not Here Comes The Squirtle Squad? Sure, the Dratini episode had Ash being held at gunpoint, but how different was it from the scene in the Squirtle episode when he walked into the convenience store?
Japanese Episode 035

More specifically:

Dogasu's Backpack said:
But you have to remember two things. The first is that the censors absolutely make distinctions between things that you and I wouldn't think twice about. There's a difference between actually firing a gun and simply pointing it at someone. A gun being held up close to someone and a gun being pointed at someone from far away are two different things, in the eyes of the censors. A gun being on-screen for ten seconds might be OK, but fifteen seconds of screentime is taboo. It's not uncommon to see rifles and bazookas allowed, but not handguns.

The difference between the guns in this episode and the guns in other episodes is that in this episode, the guns were actually fired. In this episode, the guns were held right up to people's heads. In this episode, the guns were onscreen longer than all those other instances combined. In this episode, there were no other adults around to stop the would-be shooter(s). In this episode, the guns in question were the same type of handguns a kid can find in his dad's sock drawer.

The second thing to remember is that TV censors are fickle and can change their policies at the drop of a hat. This show's a perfect example. Lorelei ("Prima") was allowed to strut around with her cleavage all over the place in Season Two yet Caroline's cleavage got edited out in Season Eight. James got to have a pipe in Season One, but Wobbuffet's pipe got erased in Season Seven. Characters got to call themselves "wine connoisseurs" in Season One, then had to drink milky stuff in Season Eight, and are now able to drink wine again. It's not uncommon for a show to be OK with something in one episode, suddenly have a problem with it in another, and then start allowing it again. Just because something's allowed in one episode doesn't mean that it will be allowed in every episode that follows.


3. Why were some of the Johto episodes aired out of order?
Probably because Kids' WB! didn't realize that the show as a serial. Remember, back then every other show they were airing was designed to be aired in any order. It wasn't until Pokemon (and later Yu-Gi-Oh!) that the network sat up and was like "Oh yeah, maybe we should actually pay attention to these things."

4. When the Japanese chose to have Brock leave after the Indigo era, was the choice made before or after the dub started?
We don't know when exactly the decision was made but it was definitely made because of the dub and the Japanese producers' ideas of what Western audiences would find acceptable.
 
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We don't know when exactly the decision was made but it was definitely made because of the dub and the Japanese producers' ideas of what Western audiences would find acceptable.
How do we know this?
 
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Regarding Beauty and the Beach: I'm aware that the episode was originally banned, but what was risque about the dub? I saw the English version multiple times and didn't think it was that bad.

Regarding the Dratini episode: I heard it was banned because of the fact that the warden was pointing a gun at a group of kids. That's why I asked why they banned it, but chose to air Here Comes The Squirtle Squad when Ash was held at gunpoint in the store. I'm aware that it was dubbed, but it was UPN that refused to air it. The episode was done before the show moved to Kids W.B.
What was said about the censors does explain a lot. I agree that different ones have different views on what content is appropriate, and it's frustrating the those at UPN had the views they had regarding it. Although I think that there's some sense behind their reasons, I don't think airing it would've caused mass parental protest (although I wouldn't have minded if they did pull it after a few airings), and it wasn't as offensive as some of the content that made into later episode (i.e. Panty shots of Dawn and Team Rocket's motto in Lapras of Luxury).


Regarding Brock: Regardless of when they chose to remove him, in my opinion, they should've waited to see what perspectives western audiences had before deciding whether or not to do so. It would've been a smarter choice instead of just making assumptions, which they seemed to do.

I'll keep the rumors of the dub edits in mind. However, a friend of mind said she heard from Veronica that Rachel Lillis believed the Porygon episode was cursed and would've refused to take part if they planned to dub it.
 
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ii kanji said:
How do we know this?
There have been several interviews and the like over the years but the one I'm actually able to recall off the top of my head is this entry from Shudou Takeshi's blog:

レギュラーメンバーのタケシが、上層部の意向で消されてしまったのである。
理由は、タケシの目が細いということである。
細目は東洋人を意識させる。
東洋人の出るアニメは、欧米では受けない。だから登場させるな、である。
人種差別とはいわない。しかし、僕は、東洋人が欧米で受けないという感覚が古いと思った。
だれが言い出したか知らないが、馬鹿じゃないかと思った。
その後、タケシが意外に欧米人に人気があることに気がついた上層部は、タケシを復活させた。
Translation:

Upper management decided to get rid of Takeshi as a regular cast member. The reason was because his eyes were so small and would therefore make people think he's Asian. And an anime with Asian characters in it wouldn't be accepted in the West. So it was decided that he wouldn't show up anymore. I wouldn't say this was racism or anything like that but I do think this kind of thinking is outdated. I don't know who it was that said that Westerners wouldn't accept Asian characters but I do remember thinking they were an idiot for doing so. Later, the upper management noticed that Takeshi was exceptionally popular in the West and so they let him come back.
This doesn't give us a timeframe or anything like that but it does at least show us that the decision was one made by Japanese staff because the dub was happening.
 
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Faaaaaaaaaack that's crazy! I know that was always given as the reason online but I thought it was an educated guess, not confirmed like this! Thanks very much for the translation.
I wouldn't say this was racism or anything like that but I do think this kind of thinking is outdated. I don't know who it was that said that Westerners wouldn't accept Asian characters but I do remember thinking they were an idiot for doing so.
LMFAO!! The sad truth is probably that the "idiot"'s thinking was not too far off the truth and that Brock succeeded despite being an Asian character (probably because no one realised that the eyes were an indication of non-white-ness!!)
 
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Just to clarify, Pokemon was syndicated in the US prior to moving to the WB-a lot of the stations showing it just happened to be UPN affiliates.
 
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That's why they should've looked into it instead of just taking one person's word, depending on when they chose to remove him.
However, when they did add Tracey, I know they removed him after 30-or-so episodes for the purpose of bringing Brock back.
When they chose to make Tracey little more than a background character, it wasn't a smart move. I know it was because they didn't want people to miss him when they left, but doing so was stupid.
That was part of the reason why the Orange Island arc wasn't as good as the Indigo era. Doing very little with the character left an embarrassing mark, because of the fact that a character with so much personality was replaced by someone that did practically nothing.
Even when you intend to give a character a temporary role in a show, you have to make the most of it. What they easily could've (and should've) done was work hard to do a lot for that character, giving him a lot of personality, backstory and major involvement with the plot.
But at the same time, write it in a way where people will know (or at least have an impression) that he's a temporary stay.
That way, people won't be as frustrated when he does leave.
The Japanese should've had enough common sense to do this, but instead, they choose to be as lazy as the developers behind the Big Rigs video game and give Tracey Judy Winslow treatment. But even that would've been more forgiving if Ash and Misty had been used better, but they were written poorly too, especially Ash.

And when Brock did come back, he wasn't half as popular because the writers did nothing with him except having him flirt with girls.
And as a result he didn't have half as many great moments in the Johto and Hoenn arcs as he had in the Indigo era.
 
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What gets me about "Beauty and the Beach" is that they could've aired in place in '98 with those same edits or put in a set as a Johto episode and it would've made little difference.

The big issue about this episode is just a Big Lipped (and Big Boobed) Alligator moment: it comes out of nowhere and is bizarre, leaves quickly, and has NO effect on the overall plot.

It may be downright bizarre & inappropriate to see large breasts in Pokémon, especially when they're on a guy (though it ain't got nothing on the pendulous titties of today's anime), but since taking them out didn't really effect the episode--which was STILL aimless, weird, and fairly exploitive--I just don't get what 4Kids was thinking either way. :confused:
 
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Paladin Elric said:
That's why they should've looked into it instead of just taking one person's word
Their "looking into it" was probably them observing how few Asian characters existed in American media in general and basing their decision on that. How many TV series airing in the U.S. in the late 1990s starred Asian characters who weren't overblown stereotypes played strictly for comic relief?

Plus, there's the whole Japanese thing where if your boss says something then you have to go along with it no matter what.


I don't think the decision was a correct one and I do agree that they should have probably taken the wait and see approach like a lot of you are suggesting but I also see how it's possible something like this could have happened.
 
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How many TV series airing in the U.S. in the late 1990s starred Asian characters who weren't overblown stereotypes played strictly for comic relief?
Captain Planet and the Planeteers had an Asian lead character, and so did The Magic School Bus. In fact, both shows had casts that were ethnically diverse.
 
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