Race, Racism, And Representation Within The Anime

[Dogasu]

So you just completely skipped over all the posts where we talk about how it's not actually about casting actors that are 1:1 the same as their characters?

But also, more diversity in the cast of the Japanese version would be cool as well.

What kind of empathy is saying "Sarah Natochenny, Michele Knotz and Carter Cathcart, go home because you're not Japanese"?

I should have made this more clear; I'd like to see them replaced because I think they're doing a bad job (well, Ms. Knotz is fine, but Sarah and especially Cathcart can kick rocks), not because of their backgrounds.

 

[Nicolas721]

So you just completely skipped over all the posts where we talk about how it's not actually about casting actors that are 1:1 the same as their characters?

You also skipped my reply to that.

I should have made this more clear; I'd like to see them replaced because I think they're doing a bad job (well, Ms. Knotz is fine, but Sarah and especially Cathcart can kick rocks), not because of their backgrounds.

That's a valid opinion. But why are you saying it on this thread if race wasn't a part of it?

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

That's a valid opinion. But why are you saying it on this thread if race wasn't a part of it?

Because we were discussing potential opportunities for PoC VAs.

 

[HiroHunter]

Because we were discussing potential opportunities for PoC VAs.

And that could work as long as they can be as good or better than the people they replace.

 

[LukeLucario6]

The idea that we're even contemplating the current VAs being replaced by PoC - partially for the sake of diversity and partially because people still hate Sarah for whatever reasons - worries me. I could understand wanting more PoC VAs being introduced to voice new characters, but not if it's partly an excuse to get rid of VAs that people just don't like.

 

[Dogasu]

The conversation's about white actors voluntarily giving up the POC characters they play. No one's (as far as I've seen in this thread) talking about people getting fired or otherwise forced out of their roles.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

The "Hitler mustache" thing was actually a reference to Golgo Matsumoto's character in Pokémon Sunday. But, like all the blackface in this show, it doesn't really matter what the intention was because at the end of the day people are just going to look at that Nyarth picture and go "oh, that's a Hitler mustache."

(It's also worth remembering that Japan and Germany were allies in the war. I don't know what the history books teach over here but it's entirely possible the staff just doesn't have the same kneejerk reaction to Nazi imagery that we Westerners do...)

Looks like the dub is more serious about those mustaches this time around:

Spoiler

Pkmndub noticed it first.
I wonder if this spells doom for those toothbrush mustached Nyasu scenes.

 

[prog rocker]

To tell the truth, the hairstyle doesn't help either.

 

[Sheep]

I linked this tweet in the dub episode thread, but will drop it off here too:

View: https://twitter.com/pkmndub/status/1298618413640749056


I don't watch the dub since I dislike the heavy edits/changes to music etc/censoring most of the time, but the hair style + mustache combination definitely make this an understandable change imo.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

I think the guy actually looks better without the mustache anyways, like much younger and clean-cut. You would think that the animation team would tone down the Hitler-esque mustache look though or are they just not aware that it's kind of controversial outside of Asia?

 

[prog rocker]

I think the guy actually looks better without the mustache anyways, like much younger and clean-cut. You would think that the animation team would tone down the Hitler-esque mustache look though or are they just not aware that it's kind of controversial outside of Asia?

I think it's kinda similar to what happened to Memín, a comic from Mexico. The character and his mother look like blackface, even if it was not really the intention (the comic had anti-racist messages). Of course, things didn't go well when it was printed in the US.

Or what happened here in Costa Rica with Cocorí... even I don't find the book itself to be racist (the illustrations could use a little help, though).

 

[Dogasu]

I hope everyone here understands that editing a mustache because it looks kinda dicey (even though there was no intention of making it look like Hitler) is exactly the same thing as not dubbing the Passimian episode because it looks kinda dicey (even though there was no intention of making it look like blackface).

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Carrying the conversation from the other thread

I have a stupid question. Would an episode be banned if Kiawe painted his face white?

No, because there hasn’t been a history of white people being made into slaves and segregated by African Americans.

That Passimian episode banning was oversensitive IMO. Banning this episode would be even more so in my eyes.

Are you a PoC out of curiosity? I don’t know who gave you the right to decide what is "over sensitive" when the anime even inadvertently portrays a racist imagery. I understand you like the anime but let’s not get ahead of ourselves and call removing an insensitive racist imagery "over sensitive".

 

[Antiyonder]

Are you a PoC out of curiosity? I don’t know who gave you the right to decide what is "over sensitive" when the anime even inadvertently portrays a racist imagery. I understand you like the anime but let’s not get ahead of ourselves and call removing an insensitive racist imagery "over sensitive".

Also one generalization I think is an absolute truth is that everyone gets oversensitive including those who often deny it to others.

Really it's better to own the fact than denying it as the alternative is looking like a bigger jerk:-D.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Ugh why is this a thing again?
It is like Japan doesnt care about the world. Your anime broadcast all around the world, of course there are gonna be offensive comments

 

[cjd1207]

I don't like how we are using cultural appropriation of making Goh a black person when he a dark skin Japanese person like Nobuaki Kakuda and Shinsuke Nakamura. It feels like we are ignoring that he was born in Kanto which is based on real life region in Japan in a country that population is 98% Japanese people. If this Rillaboom thing happened to Iris or Kiawe who were born in U.S. based regions I would say screw Pokemon I'm outta here. But it feels like we are using are own insecurities to tell Japanese people off on using a character who is japanese because we are only are seeing everything the world in black and white.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Are you a PoC out of curiosity? I don’t know who gave you the right to decide what is "over sensitive" when the anime even inadvertently portrays a racist imagery. I understand you like the anime but let’s not get ahead of ourselves and call removing an insensitive racist imagery "over sensitive".

I'm not a PoC. I was just going off with opinions I've heard across the internet.

 

[Momentum]

The Passimian episode's controversy was... unfortunate. I think the animators were aware that Ash disguising himself as a Passimian would be tricky to show internationally and thought leaving his hands, feet, and circular portions of his face unpainted could fix this. But frankly speaking, it still looked bad and I can't blame TPCi for playing it safe. At the end of the day, it was the filler episode and we only lose out on Passimian's Pokédex entry. If only shiny Passimian had a different color for the muzzle like blue or green, then TPCi could have easily color corrected it and had Ash disguise himself that way.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Lets say TPCi in other countries doesnt broadcoast this episode due racism. How would they fix Grookeys debut?

 

[Dogasu]

I personally think it's a waste of time to speculate on that right now because none of us know how this week's episode is going to turn out. For all we know the problematic-sounding dream sequence will be so short that TPCi will be able to cut around it.