Rampage Shooting in Santa Barbara

[Dorothy]

Six people were killed by a young man named Elliot Rodger, who was apparently motivated by resentment and anger at his lack of success with women, which turned into a violent, misanthropic rage. The tragedy has begun a larger dialogue on the culture of male entitlement and the dangers of the so-called "nice guy" mentality.

 

[ocelotlrama jaguar]

So, just because this guy couldn't get laid he went on a rampage and took the lives of innocent people going about their day? He sounds like a colossal narcissist since he seems to blame his failures on everyone around him but himself.

May his victims rest in peace.

 

[Leggo]

I heard about this on Facebook since I know several people who go to University of California Santa Barbara (UCSB), since Santa Barbara is an hour and a half away, and the several posts discussing this event, including this. This is a sad event.

 

[GastlyGibus]

Yes, let's turn one insane maniac's murder spree into an example that we can plaster onto all men everywhere. Because clearly, this man represents the intentions and desires of all men everywhere and is in no way a messed up, twisted human being who clearly had issues. Instead of focusing on support for the families affected, let's all just talk about this dude and try to make some kind of talking point about his actions and how they reflect the actions of his entire demographic.

Please, for the love of god, just stop it. Stop attributing the actions of one madman and applying it to their entire demographic. It's like saying that all Germans are evil because the Nazi's existed and did terrible things, or saying that all women are cheating whores because your wife decided to cheat on you. It's nonsensical. It's so stupid it makes my brain hurt just thinking about it.

So I'm just post this quote here,

A woman told me today that the point is this: he’s an awful man, and “awful men cause harm to all women at some point.”

Alright, sure, but I think this is a better way of putting it: awful people cause harm to all people at some point. This story no more ‘says something’ about men, than Andrea Yates or Aileen Wuornos or Jodi Arias say something about women. One lone mass killer doesn’t prove anything about a man’s nature anymore than your neighbor’s cheating wife proves something about a woman’s nature.

Besides, for every act of violence and cowardice a man perpetrates, a dozen men commit acts of courage and kindness. But you’ll notice that those men never get thrown on stage for examination. Liberal feminists never give them credit, or point to their virtues, or turn their valor into encouraging and supportive hash tags. If anything, they’ll find a reason to turn even the heroes into villains. It’s this propensity — this constant, relentless, soul-sucking cynicism — that will forever make the purity of their motives appear, at best, dubious.

...which is taken from this article here: I think we should stop giving these mass murderers exactly what they want | The Matt Walsh Blog

And be on my way. Thank you very much.

(Note: This is not directed at any users here, rather at all the sexist lunatics who are trying to turn this event into some kind of "proof" that all men are evil and that misogyny reigns. It pisses me off.)

 

[Life]

Why do they always have to drag innocent people into it? Sigh...

Is it to much to ask that they go see a therapist? Or in this guy's case, a strip club.

 

[Kadabra]

GastlyGibus worded this better.

Edit: Apologies to Dorothy for the rude, poorly worded post. This was a tragedy, indicative of issues in our society, and I should have been more thoughtful.

 

[Garren]

You two are totally missing the take-away point of this whole tragedy.

How can you say misogyny isn't an issue here, when you both literally come into this thread not to say a prayer for the victims, but to cry foul at feminists that may or may not even exist?

I'm not saying you should feel guilty over this man's actions, or that you need to apologize for them, but surely you should be able to realize the hypocrisy of fussing about people lumping you into one category when you're doing the same thing?

 

[Dorothy]

Yes, let's turn one insane maniac's murder spree into an example that we can plaster onto all men everywhere. Because clearly, this man represents the intentions and desires of all men everywhere and is in no way a messed up, twisted human being who clearly had issues. Instead of focusing on support for the families affected, let's all just talk about this dude and try to make some kind of talking point about his actions and how they reflect the actions of his entire demographic.

Of course "not all men" are representative of this. But guess what? This is still representative of a larger issue. Do you know how often I see men whining about how they can't get laid, and how women are bitches for not falling for them? Every damn day, that's how often. There is a culture of entitlement and self-assurance of being owed something, and the fact that this man had mental issues (the most severe of which, that I can identify, is Asperger's, a mild form of Autism which I also possess). Putting your head in the sand about the fact that our culture of male entitlement contributed to this killing does not change the fact of the matter.

Please, for the love of god, just stop it. Stop attributing the actions of one madman and applying it to their entire demographic. It's like saying that all Germans are evil because the Nazi's existed and did terrible things, or saying that all women are cheating whores because your wife decided to cheat on you. It's nonsensical. It's so stupid it makes my brain hurt just thinking about it.

Oh? Did I say that all men are like this shooter? No, of course not, that's obviously false since, hey, I'm a man and I happen to not be a murderous prick. You're seeing generalizations where none exists. It's not a matter of saying "all men are XXX," it's one of saying "society has given men a script, and not a realistic one. This often causes confusion, anger, or resentment when that script is not followed. In this case, it led to the deaths of six people."

Do you really think that violent misogyny had nothing to do with this killing? Because the fact of the matter is that it did. That's plain to see from his videos and his "manifesto." But by all means, continue claiming that this is entirely a matter of mental illness and in no way reflects the larger issue of misogyny and entitlement permeated in almost every facet of our culture.

The tragedy has begun a larger dialogue on the culture of male entitlement

..."male entitlement"? wtf These people are idiots. I don't even want to know what the Tumblr-feminists have to say about this.

@GastlyGibus
Glad to see someone post common sense here. This is an issue of mental illness, that's all.

Yeah, thanks for calling me an idiot. As a feminist (whatever a "Tumblr-feminist" is, I have no idea), you're damn right this tragedy fills me with rage, because as noted above, it's the same sort of MRA rhetoric I see on a daily basis applied in a violent and horrifically deadly manner. I legitimately do not understand how some people can fail to see how misogyny and a sense of entitlement played into Rodger's motives.

Also, Asperger's Syndrome is a mental disorder, not a mental illness. Furthermore, Rodger was well-off, had a large support base, and was undergoing therapy. That is not exemplary of a situation in which mental illness was the only factor.

 

[GastlyGibus]

Of course "not all men" are representative of this. But guess what? This is still representative of a larger issue.

I agree with you on that, but...

Do you know how often I see men whining about how they can't get laid, and how women are bitches for not falling for them? Every damn day, that's how often. There is a culture of entitlement and self-assurance of being owed something, and the fact that this man had mental issues (the most severe of which, that I can identify, is Asperger's, a mild form of Autism which I also possess). Putting your head in the sand about the fact that our culture of male entitlement contributed to this killing does not change the fact of the matter.

Do you know how often I hear women complaining that "all men are pigs" and that "all men care about is sex?" Every day, just as well. Yes, this is a culture of entitlement, but that goes across the board. Making sweeping generalizations against an entire gender because of the actions of one individual is just inane. We can't blame the individual responsible for the action. We have to blame the culture, or the gender, or whatever else happens to be a convenient scape-goat at the time. We can't just say "This is the fault of this individual." We have to point fingers at everyone and everything in order to push an agenda. It's ridiculous, and it has to stop.

If a woman went and did the same thing, killed a bunch of men and then made a youtube video complaining about how no man ever wanted her, would you say the same things about women and culture?

Oh? Did I say that all men are like this shooter? No, of course not, that's obviously false since, hey, I'm a man and I happen to not be a murderous prick. You're seeing generalizations where none exists. It's not a matter of saying "all men are XXX," it's one of saying "society has given men a script, and not a realistic one. This often causes confusion, anger, or resentment when that script is not followed. In this case, it led to the deaths of six people."

You're completely ignoring the other circumstances that most likely lead to this individuals actions. Never mind the fact that he was probably filthy rich, considering his dad's involvement in hollywood. Never mind the fact that he probably grew up with all the money in the world and got whatever he asked for. Never mind that this lifestyle probably gave him this sense of entitlement that he had. Never mind that he had obviously never been taught self-restraint or any kind of morals or ethics. And never mind the fact that he wasn't so mentally unwell that he didn't know full-well what he was doing, and he made this decision of his own accord.

From what I can gather, this is nothing more than a simple case of being spoiled rotten. This poor boy probably grew up in the lap of luxury thanks to his father's position, and probably got whatever he wanted. Because of that, he felt entitled to a woman; why not? He already got everything else he wanted, so because he was a selfish, spoiled brat, he felt that he deserved a lady.

Instead, we're just going to blame this non-existent "misogynistic" culture that apparently makes all men angry, violent sociopaths who could snap at a moments notice. Instead of blaming the individual, as we should, we're blaming everything else.

Do you really think that violent misogyny had nothing to do with this killing? Because the fact of the matter is that it did. That's plain to see from his videos and his "manifesto."

I'm not denying that misogyny played a part in this. It most certainly did. But just because one person was misogynistic and sexist doesn't mean that the rest of society is. I bring up my earlier scenario - reverse the genders, make it a woman instead of a man, and she makes a video claiming that all men were idiots, then goes on a killing spree. Would you claim that the entire culture was misandrist?

But by all means, continue claiming that this is entirely a matter of mental illness and in no way reflects the larger issue of misogyny and entitlement permeated in almost every facet of our culture.

I really want to know where you're living, because it's obviously not the same place where I'm living.

I legitimately do not understand how some people can fail to see how misogyny and a sense of entitlement played into Rodger's motives.

Because you're blaming an entire culture, and practically all men everywhere, instead of blaming this one guy who acted out because he was too selfish to see that the world didn't revolve around him.

This one guy, this individual person, with a mind of his own, chose to do these actions of his own accord. He made this decision by himself, knowing full well what he was doing. He was selfish, he was misogynistic, he was a spoiled rotten brat. It's not the culture's fault. His upbringing may have had something to do with it, but ultimately, it was his decision and his alone. Culture didn't make him do it. Hell, culture can't make anybody do anything, since culture is not a sentient entity capable of enforcing it's own will. One mans actions do not represent the entirety of his demographic. They represent his own state of mind, his own selfishness and lack of morals, and his own choices that he made freely.

In the end, regardless of what may have influenced him, he is still his own person. Yeah, lots of guys are single and lonely. I'm a single guy too. But lots of guys also know better than to go on a murderous rampage because of their own selfish desires. He made this choice. He did, and no one else. Nobody is truly at fault more than he.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I find it really annoying that in people's pursuit of being the perfect, unprejudiced liberal good guy, they'll go as far as to simply reflect the prejudice to the other side of the spectrum and think that'll solve the issue. This lefty Tumblr-feminist mind-set people have is excruciatingly irritating to me. I give my condolences to the families of those who were killed, I express my pity to people who clearly don't know how to constructively handle their feelings (or responsibly handle a firearm) such as this man, and I leave it at that.

 

[Big Lutz]

Do you really think that violent misogyny had nothing to do with this killing? Because the fact of the matter is that it did. That's plain to see from his videos and his "manifesto." But by all means, continue claiming that this is entirely a matter of mental illness and in no way reflects the larger issue of misogyny and entitlement permeated in almost every facet of our culture.

4 out of 6 people he killed were male, including his roommate ( And had a deep hatred for his younger brother ), he couldn't stand his "geeky" roommate and that turned into his very first murder.

If his killings were focused on misogyny then a majority of his victims would not be men, he hated the world and himself, from his sex drive, to the bullies around him, to his annoying roommate, misogyny played a part in it, but his focus on killing men shows that it was not the only driving force and had alot more to do with his own mental issues.

 

[GastlyGibus]

I'm sorry if my first posts came across as rude or seeking a fight. It just... it makes me mad, you know?

I think some of us (myself included) are missing the bigger picture here though. Our focus should be on the families and any efforts to help them out in their time of tragedy. Has there been any word on any outreach programs that could possibly go towards assisting the families affected?

 

[Lyrebird]

The problem that many of us see is that we hear about background checks in terms on guns but however we see people getting killed due to these mentally ill people who managed to get access. It could be parents' fault for allowing easy access to the gun, or not checking properly or the problem could be that anyone could simply get a gun due to a lack of diligence from background checking. I come from a country with guns being banned, now to us it makes us think why do Americans have guns considering people get killed all the time. That's saying yes I am aware that you could get guns illegally but the amount would be far less than legal ownership of guns.

It is not possible for the US to ban guns but surely there has to be heavy restrictions on guns. It is just we see this news so frequently that you do wonder how has no one done anything about this but then you realize how powerful NRA are.

 

[Big Lutz]

The problem that many of us see is that we hear about background checks in terms on guns but however we see people getting killed due to these mentally ill people who managed to get access. It could be parents' fault for allowing easy access to the gun, or not checking properly or the problem could be that anyone could simply get a gun due to a lack of diligence from background checking. I come from a country with guns being banned, now to us it makes us think why do Americans have guns considering people get killed all the time. That's saying yes I am aware that you could get guns illegally but the amount would be far less than legal ownership of guns.

It is not possible for the US to ban guns but surely there has to be heavy restrictions on guns. It is just we see this news so frequently that you do wonder how has no one done anything about this but then you realize how powerful NRA are.

Nothing on the books or being talked about in Congress would have stopped him, the police checked him out and found him to be perfectly normal and polite, he was seeing a psych but that in and of itself cannot stop you from purchasing a weapon.

Also I do want to point out from earlier in this thread that instead of focusing on the culture of "Male Entitlement", why not focus on the culture of "Sex is Awesome, and only Losers can't have Sex". We have become such a sexualized culture and pushed it so much that it has become a massive area of peer pressure for teens.

But then maybe its just easier to blame Male Entitlement I guess...

 

[Lyrebird]

The problem that many of us see is that we hear about background checks in terms on guns but however we see people getting killed due to these mentally ill people who managed to get access. It could be parents' fault for allowing easy access to the gun, or not checking properly or the problem could be that anyone could simply get a gun due to a lack of diligence from background checking. I come from a country with guns being banned, now to us it makes us think why do Americans have guns considering people get killed all the time. That's saying yes I am aware that you could get guns illegally but the amount would be far less than legal ownership of guns.

It is not possible for the US to ban guns but surely there has to be heavy restrictions on guns. It is just we see this news so frequently that you do wonder how has no one done anything about this but then you realize how powerful NRA are.

Nothing on the books or being talked about in Congress would have stopped him, the police checked him out and found him to be perfectly normal and polite, he was seeing a psych but that in and of itself cannot stop you from purchasing a weapon.

That's an issue and it has always seemed like that's an issue in the States. Surely action needs to be taken to a certain degree. It doesn't have to be banning of guns. It could be just a restriction on guns.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I don't understand why people don't focus more on nipping the problem in the bud rather than stepping on people's rights in an attempt to remedy the problem after it's manifested. Like, why don't we just, I dunno, try to teach people from a young age how to handle their feelings and handle guns in a mature and responsible manner? And if this guy got through that and still did this, then I don't know what to say other than that it's just a fluke. This stuff just happens.

 

[Big Lutz]

That's an issue and it has always seemed like that's an issue in the States. Surely action needs to be taken to a certain degree. It doesn't have to be banning of guns. It could be just a restriction on guns.

I don't know, possibly that would do more harm than good.

A: Doctor/Patient Privileged, he could be seeing a psych in a way that would not make him in anyway a harm to society, and even having to report that he is seeing a psych is a violation of his privacy.
B: It would discourage people from actually getting help, as they would be losing a right or even rights if they did.

 

[Dorothy]

I agree with you on that, but...

Do you know how often I see men whining about how they can't get laid, and how women are bitches for not falling for them? Every damn day, that's how often. There is a culture of entitlement and self-assurance of being owed something, and the fact that this man had mental issues (the most severe of which, that I can identify, is Asperger's, a mild form of Autism which I also possess). Putting your head in the sand about the fact that our culture of male entitlement contributed to this killing does not change the fact of the matter.

Do you know how often I hear women complaining that "all men are pigs" and that "all men care about is sex?" Every day, just as well. Yes, this is a culture of entitlement, but that goes across the board.

Except it doesn't. There's a clear difference between a woman, as a member of society with less relative power than men, complaining about those same men regarding their behavior toward and treatment of them (again, the ones with less societal power); and a man, with a higher level of comparative power, complaining about how all women are bitches or sluts. People are allowed to vent about those with a higher level of relative societal power, but just as in comedy, you shouldn't punch down.

Making sweeping generalizations against an entire gender because of the actions of one individual is just inane. We can't blame the individual responsible for the action. We have to blame the culture, or the gender, or whatever else happens to be a convenient scape-goat at the time. We can't just say "This is the fault of this individual." We have to point fingers at everyone and everything in order to push an agenda. It's ridiculous, and it has to stop.

As I said, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone or anything but the structures and standards and expectations of society that led to this man's actions. The culture of male dominance and entitlement that shaped his thoughts and motivations. You're misinterpreting my words; I'm not blaming "all men" for this one's actions. I am saying that society as a whole is culpable for building up and fermenting the atmosphere that allowed his perception of the world to be colored.

If a woman went and did the same thing, killed a bunch of men and then made a youtube video complaining about how no man ever wanted her, would you say the same things about women and culture?

No, because women do not share the same level of societal power as men. Such a crime would not, as this does, be symptomatic of a larger problem.

Oh? Did I say that all men are like this shooter? No, of course not, that's obviously false since, hey, I'm a man and I happen to not be a murderous prick. You're seeing generalizations where none exists. It's not a matter of saying "all men are XXX," it's one of saying "society has given men a script, and not a realistic one. This often causes confusion, anger, or resentment when that script is not followed. In this case, it led to the deaths of six people."

You're completely ignoring the other circumstances that most likely lead to this individuals actions. Never mind the fact that he was probably filthy rich, considering his dad's involvement in hollywood. Never mind the fact that he probably grew up with all the money in the world and got whatever he asked for. Never mind that this lifestyle probably gave him this sense of entitlement that he had. Never mind that he had obviously never been taught self-restraint or any kind of morals or ethics. And never mind the fact that he wasn't so mentally unwell that he didn't know full-well what he was doing, and he made this decision of his own accord.

From what I can gather, this is nothing more than a simple case of being spoiled rotten. This poor boy probably grew up in the lap of luxury thanks to his father's position, and probably got whatever he wanted. Because of that, he felt entitled to a woman; why not? He already got everything else he wanted, so because he was a selfish, spoiled brat, he felt that he deserved a lady.

I'm certain that contributed to it, perhaps even to the violent nature of his entitlement. But it isn't the only reason. If it was, I would not be seeing man after man proclaim the exact same sympathies and rhetoric as this one, even in the wake of this tragedy (again, I am not casting blame on all men, merely illustrating the fact that this is not entirely an isolated phenomenon).

Instead, we're just going to blame this non-existent "misogynistic" culture that apparently makes all men angry, violent sociopaths who could snap at a moments notice. Instead of blaming the individual, as we should, we're blaming everything else.

This is not the first time male entitlement and misogyny have led to violence. Here's just one example from last month. This crime is indicative of a larger trend and problem. Saying that society does not have an inherent problem with misogyny is patently absurd.

Also, please stop hyperbolizing my words.

Also, yeah, guns need to be harder to acquire in the States. We have multiple violent shootings every single year - in bad times several a month. This is a clear indication that action needs taking.

 

[Lyrebird]

America has seen several shootings like this, you can see why people are iffy on guns. You can teach people how to use it but there are quite a number of people with that much power in their hands that they just use it. I don't care about the other people's rights to have a gun when countless number of people are getting killed. Yes I know you can kill people with a knife but it is a lot harder than a gun. The kid was allowed to buy a gun just like that in apparently the toughest state to get guns? What does that say about Americans and the laws. It is disgusting to always hear this on the news, so and so killed 8-20 people with a gun.

Why do Americans even need guns for the 21st century? There are several countries that have gone through without any issues but I bet any restrictions will be hated by their own country and politicians will be done if they support any restrictions. Political suicide or political survival? It is just so warped but hey I guess the message hasn't sunk in yet.

 

[Big Lutz]

As I said, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone or anything but the structures and standards and expectations of society that led to this man's actions. The culture of male dominance and entitlement that shaped his thoughts and motivations.

Instead of looking at it merely as Male Entitlement, couldn't it also be more about his own inadequacies? Mind you I haven't gone through his whole life story as his manifesto is. But from what I did read, his parents broke up at a young age, bullies picked on him in Middle School and High School, and he never got a date. It doesn't take a psych degree to see that as a child he probably saw himself as the reason his parents broke up as many children do. Something that probably continued through a feeling of inferiority with the bullies and his lack of dating.

The point being that he could have lived the vast majority of his life thinking:

"My parents broke up because something is wrong with me."
"Bullies pick on me because something is wrong with me."
"Girls won't date me because something is wrong with me."

At some point he snaps, going after the jocks that he sees as bullies, going after the girls that he sees in rejecting him, and going after his roommate in which he sees some of his own inadequacies in, and having a strong hatred for his brother who he sees as a more perfect child as he blames himself for his parents breaking up.

He didn't go out and rape a woman to prove his entitlement or dominance. He went out to destroy all of his tormentors, which consisted of both men and women.

America has seen several shootings like this, you can see why people are iffy on guns. You can teach people how to use it but there are quite a number of people with that much power in their hands that they just use it. I don't care about the other people's rights to have a gun when countless number of people are getting killed. Yes I know you can kill people with a knife but it is a lot harder than a gun. The kid was allowed to buy a gun just like that in apparently the toughest state to get guns? What does that say about Americans and the laws. It is disgusting to always hear this on the news, so and so killed 8-20 people with a gun.

Why do Americans even need guns for the 21st century? There are several countries that have gone through without any issues but I bet any restrictions will be hated by their own country and politicians will be done if they support any restrictions. Political suicide or political survival? It is just so warped but hey I guess the message hasn't sunk in yet.

You.. do know he did also stab three people to death with a knife, and ran people over with his car.