Rank all Ash Ketchum Pokémon

[GrookeyFan77]

Simple, rank all of them

1. Infernape
2. Greninja
3. Charizard
4. Sceptile
5. Krookodile
6. Rowlet
7. Lycanroc
8. Incineroar
9. Snorlax
10. Heracross
11. Oshawott
12. Bulbasaur
13. Pikachu
14. Squirtle
15. Staraptor
16. Talonflame
17. Hawlucha
18. Quilava
19. Swellow
20. Buizel
21. Leavvany
22. Melmetal
23. Bayleef
24. Dragonite
25. Gengar
26. Lucario
27. Corphish
28. Gliscor
29. Scraggy
30. Butterfree
31. Boldore
32. Noctowl
33. Aipom
34. Naganadel
35. Pidgeot
36. Farfetch'd
37. Lapras
38. Torterra
39. Pignite
40. Donphan
41. Totodile
42. Glalie
43. Gible
44. Goodra
45. Muk
46. Kingler
47. Noivern
48. Dracovish
49. Torkoal
50. Tauros
51. Primeape
52. Snivy
53. Palpitoad
54. Unfezant

 

[nickdt]

1. Pikachu
2. Charizard
3. Sceptile
4. Snorlax
5. Infernape
6. Glalie
7. Talonflame
8. Krookodile
9. Swellow
10. Hawlucha
11. Lycanroc
12. Heracross
13. Tauros
14. Bulbasaur
15. Squirtle
16. Donphan
16. Melmetal
17. Leavanny
18. Kingler
19. Base Greninja
20. Gliscor
21. Pignite
22. Buizel
23. Staraptor
24. Incineroar
25. Quilava
26. Snivy
27. Boldore
28. Noctowl
29. Rowlet
30. Corphish
31 .Gible
32. Oshawott
33. Torterra
34. Torkoal
35. Muk
36. Bayleef
37. Unfezant
38. Palpitoad
39. Totodile
40. Scraggy
41. Goodra
42. Noivern

This is how i see Ash's Pokemon based on strenght. I haven't looked at the win/loss ratio, but only at sheer feats. Because of this, i haven't included Pokemon that Ash caught be didn't use (Seaking, Buzzwole, Pheromosa and Stakataka), Pokemon we don't have a clear indication about because either released early (Butterfree) or not be used that much (Lapras, Pidgeotto). I also didn't think it was fair to include Naganadel, since it didn't evolve under Ash's ownership (Meaning it was a cheap plotpoint to bring it back evolved for him to have). I also haven't listed Ash-Greninja's feats under Base Greninja's feats, since base Greninja cannot defeat Mega's (And base Greninja isn't as impressive as Talonflame and Hawlucha either). It basically needed to power buff to be good.
Obviously, in terms of strenght, i never list Pokemon in ongoing series, since they can start off strong, but then suddenly be overshadowed or weak due to inconsistent writing.

I know Infernape was impressive in the Sinnoh Saga, but he has nothing on Pikachu, Charizard and Sceptile (Who have defeated legendaries) and Snorlax (Who doesn't need to rely on its ability to be strong).

While i have placed Glalie sixth, the sixth, seventh and eight spot are pretty interchangeable. Glalie was the MVP of the Kalos league and Talonflame faced and hit legendaries and Mega's (And was impressive in Kalos as well, not going down in any gym or league match without taking at least another mon with it) and Krookodile faced and defeated a rogue Dragonite.

Tauros placed 13th might also be a surprise if we look at win/loss ratio, however, if we look at feats alone, its less of a surprise. It defeated Drakes second strongest mon (Venusaur) and for a time went toe-to-toe with his Dragonite (It even took it upon his horns), defeated the strongest Tauros in Johto and had a draw with a Metagross in the Battle Frontier. Thats 2 Psuedo legendaries it this well against.

I have placed Incineroar on the numer 24 spot, just for the fact that it didn't do much as a Torracat (I personally don't count his win against Scizor, since the move was already executed before Scizor came in, which means its a cheap win and not a Torracat feat) and we didn't see it fight as Incineroar.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

Glalie was the MVP of the Kalos league

I think you meant Hoenn

 

[RetroPokeFan]

Ranking them based on who's my favorite and least favorite (excluding Dracovish who hasn't battled yet so he can wait a little longer before joining the list, 38 onwards is yikes territory):
1: Pikachu
2: Lycanroc
3: Hawlucha
4: Buizel
5: Swellow
6: Sceptile
7: Incineroar
8: Infernape
9: Bayleef
10: Staraptor
11: Snivy
12: Bulbasaur
13: Squirtle
14: Heracross
15: Quilava
16: Gliscor
17: Krookodile
18: Snorlax
19: Corphish
20: Charizard
21: Gible
22: Dragonite
23: Gengar
24: Primeape
25: Lucario (possible chance he could climb up but we'll see how he fares for now)
26: Greninja
27: Donphan
28: Scraggy
29: Glalie
30: Noctowl
31: Muk
32: Torterra
33: Kingler
34: Tauros
35: Boldore
36: Melmetal
37: Levanny
38: Farfetch'd
39: Goodra
40: Rowlet
41: Torkoal
42: Oshawott
43: Noivern
44: Unfezant

 

[EternalPokéFanGirl]

I'll rank them by how I like their personalities, not by their battling skills. But some of the positions are not strict, there are several numbers that I like almost the same:

1. Sceptile
2. Krookodile
3. Gengar
4. Bulbasaur
5. Swellow
6. Corphish
7. Goodra
8. Butterfree
9. Bayleef
10. Leavanny
11. Snivy
12. Dragonite
13. Hawlucha
14. Glalie
15. Rowlet
16. Palpitoad
17. Torkoal
18. Talonflame
19. Pignite
20. Squirtle
21. Donphan
22. Torterra
23. Noctowl
24. Totodile
25. Farfetch'd
26. Infernape
27. Unfezant
28. Staraptor
29. Pikachu
30. Quilava
31. Muk
32. Snorlax
33. Lycanroc
34. Incineroar
35. Lapras
36. Tauros
37. Kingler
38. Primeape
39. Pidgeot
40. Dracovish
41. Aipom
42. Boldore
43. Heracross
44. Naganadel
45. Noivern
46. Gliscor
47. Oshawott
48. Gible
49. Melmetal
50. Charizard
51. Scraggy
52. Buizel
53. Greninja
54. Lucario

 

[GrookeyFan77]

Here is all of them based on Win Rates.

1. Dragonite 100
2. Infernape 85
3. Kingler 80
4. Charizard 75
5. Greninja 73
6. Snorlax 73
7. Lycanroc 71
8. Pikachu 69
9. Gible 67
10. Scraggy 67
11. Rowlet 67
12. Incineroar 67
13. Corphish 63
14. Bulbasaur 62
15. Squirtle 60
16. Noctowl 60
17. Swellow 60
18. Glalie 60
19. Quilava 56
20. Pignite 55
21. Buizel 54
22. Muk 50
23. Bayleef 50
24. Donphan 50
25. Aipom 50
26. Staraptor 50
27. Gliscor 50
28. Unfezant 50
29. Leavanny 50
30. Hawlucha 50
31. Goodra 50
32. Naganadel 50
33. Melmetal 50
34. Farfetch'd 50
35. Sceptile 48
36. Torterra 44
37. Talonflame 43
38. Heracross 40
39. Oshawott 38
40. Boldore 33
41. Gengar 33
42. Lucario 30
43. Tauros 25
44. Snivy 25
45. Palpitoad 25
46. Torkoal 22
47. Totodile 20
48. Pidgeot 0
49. Lapras 0
50. Noivern 0
51. Dracovish 0

 

[nickdt]

Here is all of them based on Win Rates.

1. Dragonite 100
2. Infernape 85
3. Kingler 80
4. Charizard 75
5. Greninja 73
6. Snorlax 73
7. Lycanroc 71
8. Pikachu 69
9. Gible 67
10. Scraggy 67
11. Rowlet 67
12. Corphish 63
13. Bulbasaur 62
14. Squirtle 60
15. Noctowl 60
16. Swellow 60
17. Glalie 60
18. Incineroar 60
19. Quilava 56
20. Pignite 55
21. Buizel 54
22. Muk 50
23. Bayleef 50
24. Donphan 50
25. Aipom 50
26. Staraptor 50
27. Gliscor 50
28. Unfezant 50
29. Leavanny 50
30. Hawlucha 50
31. Gooddra 50
32. Naganadel 50
33. Melmetal 50
34. Farfetch'd
35. Sceptile 48
36. Torterra 44
37. Talonflame 43
38. Heracross 40
39. Oshawott 38
40. Boldore 33
41. Gengar 33
42. Lucario 30
43. Tauros 25
44. Snivy 25
45. Palpitoad 25
46. Torkoal 22
47. Totodile 20
48. Pidgeot 0
49. Lapras 0
50. Noivern 0
51. Dracovish 0

tbh win/rates mean nothing if it isn't direct 1v1 though and the amount of battles is also a factor.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

tbh win/rates mean nothing if it isn't direct 1v1 though and the amount of battles is also a factor.

Yeah, but it still is a solid factor to determine their strength

Here are Ash's mons ranked by screentime

1. Pikachu 1141 EPs
2. Rowlet 111 EPs
3. Bulbasaur 110 EPs
4. Charizard 107 EPs
5. Lycanroc 104 EPs
6. Incineroar 102 EPs
7. Staraptor 100 EPs
8. Sceptile 92 EPs
9. Greninja 90 EPs
10. Torterra 84 EPs
11. Swellow 82 EPs
12. Oshawott 82 EPs
13. Ambipom 80 EPs
14. Squirtle 77 EPs
15. Corphish 77 EPs
16. Bayleef 76 EPs
17. Buizel 71 EPs
18. Infernape 67 EPs
19. Talonflame 66 EPs
20. Totodile 61 EPs
21. Pignite 57 EPs
22. Hawlucha 53 EPs
23. Quilava 48 EPs
24. Snivy 45 EPs
25. Noctowl 44 EPs
26. Pidgeot 40 EPs
27. Gliscor 40 EPs
28. Torkoal 37 EPs
29. Donphan 35 EPs
30. Noivern 32 EPs
31. Naganadel 32 EPs
32. Scraggy 31 EPs
33. Melmetal 31 EPs
34. Heracross 28 EPs
35. Unfezant 27 EPs
36. Glalie 26 EPs
37. Lapras 27 EPs
38. Muk 26 EPs
39. Goodra 26 EPs
40. Snorlax 21 EPs
41. Krookodile 20 EPs
42. Lucario 20 EPs
43. Kingler 19 EPs
44. Dragonite 19
45. Boldore 17 EPs
46. Gible 16 EPs
47. Butterfree 15 EPs
48. Tauros 15 EPs
49. Leavanny 15 Eps
50. Gengar 13 EPs
51. Palpitoad 8 EPs
52. Farfetch'd 8 EPs
53. Primape 4 EPs
54. Dracovish 1 EP

Rowlet has the most screentime other than Pikachu, pretty obvious since it appeared in basicly every single SM ep. next is Bulbasaur, Charizard, Lycanroc and Incineroar Bulbasaur and Charizard are long time fan favoruites and Lycanroc and Incineroar are Alola mons. Staraptor is next whixh is pretty suprising, it is probably because DP was a long series it was sent to search for stuff in DP a lot. Sceptile is next, and like DP, AG is also a big series so it is obvious. XY is the Greninja show and Tortterra is in DP and has been there for a long time and Swellow is AG Staraptor. Oshawott basicly apeared in every BW episode and is the only Pokemon in BW who has a good amount of screentime. Ambipom has been in AG and DP so obviously. I expected more from Squirtle considering it's friends Bulbasaur and Charizard did so well. Corphish is in AG and Bayleef has a lot of screentime in Johto and Buizel is in DP. Poor Infernape tho, the best Ash Pokemon did not get a lot of screentime despite being in DP. Talonflame is XY Staraptor and Swellow, but since XY is shorter, it does not get that much. Totodile was suprising IDK why it got that much. Pignite is the 2nd most screentime BW Pokemon, and it and Oshawott are the only mons from BW that got more than 50 EPs of screentime. Hawlucha is in XY, an avarage long series. Quilava shocked me, it needed more screentime. Snivy is an Unova starter, Noctowl is useless OG Staraptor Pidgeot got released early, Gliscor debuted late,Torkoal is trash, Donphan and Noivern debuted late, Naganadel got released early, Scraggy had some screentime in BW, Melmetal debuted very late but in SM, Heracross got sent to the lab, Unfezant is BW Staraptor, Glalie debuted very late and got sent to the lab, Lapras and Goodra were released, Muk is OG sent lab but somehow appeared in every single series, Krookodile is BW ace, Lucario is JN ace, Kinler is OS lab, Dragonite is in JN, Boldore is in Unova, Gible got caught VERY VERY late, Butterfree got realeased VERY VERY early, Taros is OG Oak lab, Leavanny is in Unova, Gengar is in JN, Palpitoad is in Unova, Farfetch'd is in JN, Primape was never used and Dracovish just got caught.

 

[Kanto Pikachu]

1. Pikachu
2. Charizard
3. Sceptile
4. Snorlax
5. Infernape
6. Glalie
7. Talonflame
8. Krookodile
9. Swellow
10. Hawlucha
11. Lycanroc
12. Heracross
13. Tauros
14. Bulbasaur
15. Squirtle
16. Donphan
16. Melmetal
17. Leavanny
18. Kingler
19. Base Greninja
20. Gliscor
21. Pignite
22. Buizel
23. Staraptor
24. Incineroar
25. Quilava
26. Snivy
27. Boldore
28. Noctowl
29. Rowlet
30. Corphish
31 .Gible
32. Oshawott
33. Torterra
34. Torkoal
35. Muk
36. Bayleef
37. Unfezant
38. Palpitoad
39. Totodile
40. Scraggy
41. Goodra
42. Noivern

Sorry but this is wrong. Some of them are wrong and you base that off strength. 1. There's no Ash-Greninja, no idea where he went. But he's definitely second strongest.You are right about first 3 but stumbled on your Snorlax being stronger than Infernape. Infernape is definitely stronger than Snorlax in Blaze. Blaze Infernape is stronger than Electivire who is stronger than Pikachu who was in BF( and BF Pikachu is stronger than Snorlax).

Glalie comes out of nowhere where he should be much much down. Glalie proved nothing except doing decent in Hoenn league. Glalie should be like close to some low Frontier Brain Pokemon.
Talonflame is also put on high places where he's around Glalie. He did nothing but win against hurt Avalugg(without Ice Body) who was battling Pikachu.
Krookodile is overrated he had no feats except being stronger than Pignite who is stronger than Brycen who is high gym leader level. Krookodile is stronger than those two above,though.
Swellow and Hawlucha are also high up. Hawlucha is stronger than Talonflame but not much and Swellow is above that. Swellow should be stronger than Krookodile based on his fight with Tucker.

Lycanroc is also high he should be hanging with likes of Glalie, he beat 3 Nanu's Pokemon who are like mid gym level or something which is good but nowhere near as good as you think they are.I am lazy to go through everyone I will give you at least semi accurate rank of strength but I notices you put Incineroar way low..
Anyway this is rank:
1.Pikachu with gimmicks.
2. Ash-Greninja
3.Charizard
4.Sceptile
5.Blaze Infernape
6.Snorlax( Snorlax has some rage that makes him faster and stronger)
7.Incineroar
8. Bulbasaur( had good battle with Duclops and Solrock)
9.Tauros( beat Anebel's Metagross)
10.Corphish( tied with Alakazam)
11.Gible( Tobias said that Draco Meteor would beat anyone but Latios, now take that grain of salt but , I am sure DM would beat lots of Frontier Brains)
12.Gliscor( stronger than Torterra who gave Palmer hard time)
13.Heracross( did good on Venusaur's frontier Brain)
14.Squirtle(beat Ninjask)
15.Melmetal(did good on Silvally)
16.Donphan(did good on Lucy)
17.Torkoal(made Registeel fall some times)
18.Swellow( did good on Tucker)
19.Krookodile( stronger than Pignite)
20.Kingler( beat Mandi's 3 Pokemon)
21.Lycanroc(beat Nanu's 3 Pokemon)
22.Naganadel( close to Lycanroc)
23.Lucario( beat two Rose's Pokemon who gave Riolu and Pikachu hard time and Riolu is close to Mega Lucario)
23.Hawlucha
24.Glalie
25.Talonflame
26.Pignite( stronger than Brycen's Beartic)
27.Dragonite( stronger than Grapploct)
28.Bayleef(did good in Johto league)
29.Leavanny(did good in Unova league)
30.Noctowl
31. Goodra
from here now it's kinda hard since all of these Pokemon are like mid gym level to low gym level since they didn't show anything significant. If you have questions, go ahead.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

26.Pignite( stronger than Brycen's Beartic)

no he is not. He is stronger than Crayoganal tho.

 

[nickdt]

Sorry but this is wrong. Some of them are wrong and you base that off strength. 1. There's no Ash-Greninja, no idea where he went. But he's definitely second strongest.You are right about first 3 but stumbled on your Snorlax being stronger than Infernape. Infernape is definitely stronger than Snorlax in Blaze. Blaze Infernape is stronger than Electivire who is stronger than Pikachu who was in BF( and BF Pikachu is stronger than Snorlax).

Glalie comes out of nowhere where he should be much much down. Glalie proved nothing except doing decent in Hoenn league. Glalie should be like close to some low Frontier Brain Pokemon.
Talonflame is also put on high places where he's around Glalie. He did nothing but win against hurt Avalugg(without Ice Body) who was battling Pikachu.
Krookodile is overrated he had no feats except being stronger than Pignite who is stronger than Brycen who is high gym leader level. Krookodile is stronger than those two above,though.
Swellow and Hawlucha are also high up. Hawlucha is stronger than Talonflame but not much and Swellow is above that. Swellow should be stronger than Krookodile based on his fight with Tucker.

Lycanroc is also high he should be hanging with likes of Glalie, he beat 3 Nanu's Pokemon who are like mid gym level or something which is good but nowhere near as good as you think they are.I am lazy to go through everyone I will give you at least semi accurate rank of strength but I notices you put Incineroar way low..
Anyway this is rank:
1.Pikachu with gimmicks.
2. Ash-Greninja
3.Charizard
4.Sceptile
5.Blaze Infernape
6.Snorlax( Snorlax has some rage that makes him faster and stronger)
7.Incineroar
8. Bulbasaur( had good battle with Duclops and Solrock)
9.Tauros( beat Anebel's Metagross)
10.Corphish( tied with Alakazam)
11.Gible( Tobias said that Draco Meteor would beat anyone but Latios, now take that grain of salt but , I am sure DM would beat lots of Frontier Brains)
12.Gliscor( stronger than Torterra who gave Palmer hard time)
13.Heracross( did good on Venusaur's frontier Brain)
14.Squirtle(beat Ninjask)
15.Melmetal(did good on Silvally)
16.Donphan(did good on Lucy)
17.Torkoal(made Registeel fall some times)
18.Swellow( did good on Tucker)
19.Krookodile( stronger than Pignite)
20.Kingler( beat Mandi's 3 Pokemon)
21.Lycanroc(beat Nanu's 3 Pokemon)
22.Naganadel( close to Lycanroc)
23.Lucario( beat two Rose's Pokemon who gave Riolu and Pikachu hard time and Riolu is close to Mega Lucario)
23.Hawlucha
24.Glalie
25.Talonflame
26.Pignite( stronger than Brycen's Beartic)
27.Dragonite( stronger than Grapploct)
28.Bayleef(did good in Johto league)
29.Leavanny(did good in Unova league)
30.Noctowl
31. Goodra
from here now it's kinda hard since all of these Pokemon are like mid gym level to low gym level since they didn't show anything significant. If you have questions, go ahead.

Here is the thing: I never rank Ash-Greninja and Greninja's wins the same, since its kinda obvious base Greninja cannot defeat the opponents Ash-Greninja (The form) beats (Basically, Ash-Greninja is on another list, where its the only member on currently).

You saying Talonflame did not but defeat Wulfrics Avalugg. You are factually wrong here.
Talonflame has fought in every gym battle (Except for Clemont) and didn't go down in a gym without taking at least one win (Except for Grant).
Talonflame has contributed way more than Greninja in the gym run, making Talonflame the ace of the Kalos team.
Talonflame also never went down in the league without taking down another mon. But here comes the funny bit: Talonflame was the only mon not having swirly eyes against Lysandre, meaning it was never fully knocked out. Talonflame faced 2 legendaries, tanked a hit from one to save its trainer and brought a hit in against Mega Lucario while being a Fletchinder.

You are saying that Blaze Infernape is stronger than Snorlax. That in fact, makes Snorlax stronger than Infernape, since Snorlax doesn't needs its ability to become stronger.

Glalie was literally the ace of the Hoenn League and the one who carried Ash through it (Not Swellow, not Grovyle). It even beat a freaking Charizard, despite being at a disadvantage. As such, Glalie is way stronger than Pre-Battle Frontier Sceptile and way, way stronger than Swellow. Its especially jarring, since Swellow and Grovyle had more experience than the relative newby Glalie, who still outshone them (Which shows that Glalie just has exceptional strenght).

I personally never rank Pokemon from ungoing series, since we don't know how they end up after the series is done. Its especially problematic with Ash's PWC goal and him only using Pikachu, despite having other mons (Despite that, your ranking of Lucario and Dragonite is wrong, since Dragonite literally swept Korrina, including her Mega Lucario, which means Dragonite is way stronger than Lucario currently).

I personally also don't rank Naganadel, since it never evolved under Ash and thus became stronger himself, not under Ash.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

and didn't go down in a gym without taking at least one win

Viola rematch, Wulfric first battle.

 

[nickdt]

Viola rematch, Wulfric first battle.

Still the same gym.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

If we are ranking them by strength, here is my list:

1. Pikachu
2. Charizard
3. Sceptile
4. Infernape
5. Dragonite
6. Snorlax
7. Lycanroc
8. Incineroar
9. Krookodile
10. Heracross
11. Greninja
12. Swellow
13. Bulbasaur
14. Squirtle
15. Glalie
16. Corphish
17. Kingler
18. Rowlet
19. Hawlucha
20. Staraptor
21. Buizel
22. Talonflame
23. Leavanny
24. Quilava
25. Pignite
26. Melmetal
27. Bayleef
28. Gliscor
29. Scraggy
30. Farfetch'd
31. Donphan
32. Aipom
33. Gengar
34. Goodra
35. Torterra
36. Noctowl
37. Oshawott
38. Boldore
39. Lucario
40. Palpitoad
41. Unfezant
42. Snivy
43. Lapras
44. Gible
45. Pidgeot
46. Tauros
47. Muk
48. Butterfree
49. Torkoal
50. Totodile
51. Noivern

Still the same gym.

But still.

 

[nickdt]

If we are ranking them by strength, here is my list:

1. Pikachu
2. Charizard
3. Sceptile
4. Infernape
5. Dragonite
6. Snorlax
7. Lycanroc
8. Incineroar
9. Krookodile
10. Heracross
11. Greninja
12. Swellow
13. Bulbasaur
14. Squirtle
15. Glalie
16. Corphish
17. Kingler
18. Rowlet
19. Hawlucha
20. Staraptor
21. Buizel
22. Talonflame
23. Leavanny
24. Quilava
25. Pignite
26. Melmetal
27. Bayleef
28. Gliscor
29. Scraggy
30. Farfetch'd
31. Donphan
32. Aipom
33. Gengar
34. Goodra
35. Torterra
36. Noctowl
37. Oshawott
38. Boldore
39. Lucario
40. Palpitoad
41. Unfezant
42. Snivy
43. Lapras
44. Gible
45. Pidgeot
46. Tauros
47. Muk
48. Butterfree
49. Torkoal
50. Totodile

But still.

Ranks them by strenght, doesn't put Noivern and Goodra on the bottom of the list. Tauros is way to low as well (Tauros is 100% in the top 20) and Talonflame is in the top 10.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

Ranks them by strenght, doesn't put Noivern and Goodra on the bottom of the list. Tauros is way to low as well (Tauros is 100% in the top 20) and Talonflame is in the top 10.

Noivern never won a single battle and Goodra only won against Luxray after it was weakaned. Tauros's win rate is cr*p and Talonflame has more losses than wins.

 

[nickdt]

Noivern never won a single battle and Goodra only won against Luxray after it was weakaned. Tauros's win rate is cr*p and Talonflame has more losses than wins.

Like i said before: Win/rate means nothing if it isn't a direct 1v1.

If you battle more, you also lose more. Talonflames feats are way better than base Greninja's, so Talonflame always has to be placed higher than base Greninja anyways (Same applies for Hawlucha).

 

[GrookeyFan77]

If you battle more, you also lose more. Talonflames feats are way better than base Greninja's, so Talonflame always has to be placed higher than base Greninja anyways (Same applies for Hawlucha).

However, Talonflame never was the ace of a Gym battle. Meanwhile Greninja was the ace of MULTIPLE Gym Battles.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

This is how I’d rank their strengths (not counting Dracovish here):

1. Pikachu
2. Ash-Greninja
3. Charizard
4. Infernape
5. Sceptile
6. Snorlax
7. Regular Greninja
8. Lycanroc
9. Glalie
10. Krookodile
11. Swellow
12. Hawlucha
13. Heracross
14. Incineroar
15. Dragonite
16. Talonflame
17. Bulbasaur
18. Corphish
19. Squirtle
20. Staraptor
21. Quilava
22. Buizel
23. Donphan
24. Gliscor
25. Leavanny
26. Rowlet
27. Gengar
28. Kingler
29. Pignite
30. Goodra
31. Torterra
32. Melmetal
33. Noctowl
34. Palpitoad
35. Naganadel
36. Tauros
37. Bayleef
38. Gible
39. Lucario
40. Boldore
41. Unfezant
42. Torkoal
43. Noivern
44. Farfetch’d
45. Snivy
46. Oshawott
47. Scraggy
48. Muk
49. Totodile
50. Lapras
51. Pidgeot
52. Butterfree

 

[nickdt]

This is how I’d rank their strengths (not counting Dracovish here):

1. Pikachu
2. Ash-Greninja
3. Charizard
4. Infernape
5. Sceptile
6. Snorlax
7. Regular Greninja
8. Lycanroc
9. Glalie
10. Krookodile
11. Swellow
12. Hawlucha
13. Heracross
14. Incineroar
15. Dragonite
16. Talonflame
17. Bulbasaur
18. Corphish
19. Squirtle
20. Staraptor
21. Quilava
22. Buizel
23. Donphan
24. Gliscor
25. Leavanny
26. Rowlet
27. Gengar
28. Kingler
29. Pignite
30. Goodra
31. Torterra
32. Melmetal
33. Noctowl
34. Palpitoad
35. Naganadel
36. Tauros
37. Bayleef
38. Gible
39. Lucario
40. Boldore
41. Unfezant
42. Torkoal
43. Noivern
44. Farfetch’d
45. Snivy
46. Oshawott
47. Scraggy
48. Muk
49. Totodile
50. Lapras
51. Pidgeot
52. Butterfree

What are regular Greninja's strenghts compared to Hawlucha and Talonflame??? Talonflame has better feats than all Kalos mons combines, so has to be in the top 10 always. Also, why is Noivern 43, while it has no feats or wins whatsoever. Its the weakest mon (And yes, it can only be placed above Lapras, Pidgeot and Butterfree).

Dragonite on 15 is also interesting, considering it swept Korrina and didn't need a power buff (In terms of additional forms) to defeat a Mega. Ash-Greninja is 4th, behind Pikachu, Charizard (Both have defeated legendaries 1v1) and Dragonite (Has swept against a Mega user). You can make the argument to place Sceptile above Ash-Greninja as well because it defeated Darkrai, but considering that wasn't a 1v1, i am giving it to Ash-Greninja (Despite Zard X vs Ash-Greninja not being a 1v1 either, but that was because Alain realized that if he didn't sent ouf Zard vs Pikachu, Pikachu would have swept the rest of his team sans Zard).