Red is not that tough!

[VeggiePopper]

I'm just bragging, but I'm quite dissapointed with my Gold version. Last month I finally changed my cart's old battery and started a new game in Gold for the first time in 6 or 7 years. Yes, the game's great, but not as great as I remembered...

The thing that dissapointed me the most was my fight against Red 5 minutes ago. I always remembered Red's Snorlax as a hard wall and his Pikachu, we all know, the highest leveled Pokémon ever until Platinum. But I just beat Blue with a 50-60's level team and inmediatly head off to Silver Cave. I challenged Red for a joke, as I had only 5 Pokémon in my party and the highest is a Level 60 Typhlosion. I knew was going to be smashed, but guess what? I beat him with only one Pokémon (a level 56 Meganium) fainted. And I didn't used Revives or any other item. I beat six Pokémon that outclassed me by 20 levels each! I know I'm no Pokémon Master, it's just that the game's AI sucks, or that I had luck, but that made me think, this game's too easy, and so my Johto affair has ended with a slightly bitter taste. Now I really want a remake for the agme, with more challenge.

OK, now I've expressed my feelings. That was all I needed... thanks if you read this. Now you can give me your imrpessions or memories from Generation II for the discussion.

 

[The King of Nidos]

I havent played the genII games since I can't even remember how long but I think every one says that that generation was their favorite is linked to people saying remember the good ol days.

 

[VeggiePopper]

I havent played the genII games since I can't even remember how long but I think every one says that that generation was their favorite is linked to people saying remember the good ol days.

Yes, it is also my favorite game in the series, but may be now it is a little outdated. Or maybe it's just nostalgia what makes us idealize those versions and see them as the best. That could be why I had bigger expectations than I get when I replayed it. Still, I love it.

 

[Charizards Burn]

i'd like to put a new battery in my gold version but everytime i turn it on i get too emotional and have to turn it off..

Old games make me feel sad..

 

[X Dragoon]

I never did fight Red, then again, I couldn't find Silver Cave......but, I do remember a lot of people saying he's hard, maybe because it's that nobody really cared about IVs and EVs back then....

 

[Orion-Sama]

Red was never that tough indeed. It's more that everyone was younger back in the 2nd Generation times. His Team is nothing to scoff at (Besides maybe Pikachu. No matter how high in level, it's still unevolved, and I highly doubt it had Light Ball), but it's just high in level, with no actual strategy, or at least, not a solid one.

Red defeated me at first for a simple reason: I didn't expect he'd be such a jump in level. He's easily 25 levels above Blue's Pokémon, who's the second toughest Trainer in the entire game. That's way too much however you see it. Another thing that made him hard was the pretty bad level management in GSC. Your Pokémon all at Level 55 by when you get to Red is about the best you can do. Then you're bit right back there with no rematches and no decent areas to level up besides the S.S. Fast, the Rival at Indigo Plateau, the Elite Four and Viridian House, and they're still on the late 40s to 50s. It's mostly a difficult battle due to a forced Level difference, not because it's actually hard.

As far as I go, GSC was awesome... the first 11 playthroughs. Afterwards, I noticed how flawed it really was. After 30 playthroughs (Unstable battery and no other game to play), the battery finally died off for good, and I was on the verge of retiring from Pokémon. These games aren't "the best" in any way, shape or form. They're severely flawed, especially in how they treated Johto and 2nd Gen Pokémon altogether. If there's ever a remake, I hope they address these problems. But frankly? I doubt they will. :/

I like Johto a lot in every sense, but I wish it had a proper showcase. Not this shared shit with everything Kanto. Other than that, the music, Whitney and Bellossom, I could care less about 2nd Gen altogether...

 

[VeggiePopper]

That's what impressed me: I beat it still with Pokémon at their 50's. My team was:
Typhlosion Lv. 60
Feraligatr Lv. 56
Meganium Lv. 56
Ampharos Lv. 55
Heracross Lv. 55

I didn't have even a full party of six Pokémon!!! And I didn't need to use Revives, Potions, Restores nor any other item. I won't levelup my Pokémon to Level 100; I don't need it and there's no reason for it: I already defeated Red and there aren't real people to fight against. So I'll just catch the Legendary Trio and leave the game for a while. I need to rest from Pokémon, I've been playing this series nearly endlessly since December 2007.
And just as you said, this last playthrough showed me how flawed this game was. And I also doubt they will correct these issues in a remake. But if they do, that would be nice and I would certainly buy it. Otherwise I won't and just will sit and wait for Gen V.

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

Really, the games in general aren't that hard. I always fight the elite four 15-20 levels below them, and it's never a problem, even though I refuse to use items during battles since it's more fun that way. Back when I was younger, yes, the games were challenging, but now? They're really not hard at all.

 

[Silktree]

As far as I go, GSC was awesome... the first 11 playthroughs. Afterwards, I noticed how flawed it really was. After 30 playthroughs (Unstable battery and no other game to play), the battery finally died off for good, and I was on the verge of retiring from Pokémon. [...] Other than that, the music, Whitney and Bellossom, I could care less about 2nd Gen altogether...

I am afraid to say that your opinion is heavily biased after 30 playthroughs. The Pokémon games are not supposed to be restarted at all, much less at such a high frequency. Even though your gripes are mostly legitimate, it goes to say a lot that those aspects had been a non-issue to you until your twelvth time playing the game. Dare I hazard a guess that by that time Generation III had already been released (possibly even FireRed and LeafGreen) and you had different standards by which to judge the now-obsolete games?

If remakes of the games are released, they will not cater to fans like you who have literally played the original games to death, seeing as they form the distinct minority. The majority is comprised of players who played the Generation II games once or twice and have not gone to great lengths to restore the internal battery, but more importantly the new target audience who were too young at the time when Generation II was readily available. I am quite certain, however, that minor problems such as wild Pokémon distribution and trainer levels will be addressed, for the simple reason that those issues have already been refined in subsequent generations. The situation is entirely analogous to the lack of a female player character in Generation I, which was rectified in the respective remakes.

 

[Orion-Sama]

I am afraid to say that your opinion is heavily biased after 30 playthroughs. The Pokémon games are not supposed to be restarted at all, much less at such a high frequency. Even though your gripes are mostly legitimate, it goes to say a lot that those aspects had been a non-issue to you until your twelvth time playing the game. Dare I hazard a guess that by that time Generation III had already been released (possibly even FireRed and LeafGreen) and you had different standards by which to judge the now-obsolete games?

Nice jumping to conclusions there. My 30th and last playthrough of GSC happened at the very least 6 months before the release of Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire in Japan. So, you're wrong. I had a negative outlook of the games well before that. Or better said, an objective outlook. You might be right about the "not suppossed to be restarted so much if at all", but I still did it due to circumstances and because my friends also were into Pokémon and I could play with them, so I kept on pressing even when I disliked the game.

And frankly? Since my first playthrough, I didn't like the idea of going back to Kanto. Johto left a bad distaste to me back then, not because it was crappy, but because I seriously expected it to be much more than what it was, and I felt it deserved to be as well. The issues just were way more evident after several playthroughs. I noticed the pretty bad level distribution, the fact I never got to use most of the 2nd Gen Pokémon (And I wouldn't until Colosseum) because it was full of the tried and true 1st Gen Pokémon, and the fact I never got to use the new Pokémon Types either at all until getting to Kanto. That's all proof of how badly distributed the Pokémon in the games were. To me, even back then, Kanto was suppossed to be done with. It felt tacked on, it was even easier than the Elite Four, and didn't imply a significant gameplay improvement. In fact, I was disgusted at how they removed all which made Kanto worthwile, as were pretty much all of the intrincate dungeons. I guess that's OK from a plot perspective, but when it comes to gameplay... might as well just put a straight road with every Gym Leader one after the other. Yes, I felt it was that bad all along. Honestly, I don't see how two minuscule Regions count as two. At most, it's like one-and-a-half full Region. I wasn't thrilled by what had happened either, except the fact Blue became Giovanni's sucessor, and Janine. The rest? Meh. Oh, let's not forget the moral sink, as was turning the Pokémon Tower into a Radio Tower. Yeah, Kanto people sure care about Pokémon...

The only reasons I didn't care for these flaws were because it was still Pokémon, and it's always entertaining to play. Plus, I really like the Johto segment of the game (Outside of the Team Rocket part, which just got slightly better after FR/LG shed more light on it), as well as the Gym Leaders (Especially Whitney. <3 ), so I had no qualms. Of course, it would've been way more enjoyable, and I wouldn't mind 30 or even 100 playthroughs, if I happened to have the chance of using more of the 2nd Gen Pokémon, and not the old Kanto stuff.

If remakes of the games are released, they will not cater to fans like you who have literally played the original games to death, seeing as they form the distinct minority. The majority is comprised of players who played the Generation II games once or twice and have not gone to great lengths to restore the internal battery, but more importantly the new target audience who were too young at the time when Generation II was readily available.

I know, and I don't care. That fact doesn't makes the glaring flaws negligible or nonexistent. But hey, after looking what they did regarding the Diamond/Pearl to Platinum transition, I won't be surprised they remake the games as they were and fix nothing, living in their bubble (Which seems to be the bubble of several fans as well) that those games were perfect. News flash, they weren't.

I am quite certain, however, that minor problems such as wild Pokémon distribution and trainer levels will be addressed, for the simple reason that those issues have already been refined in subsequent generations. The situation is entirely analogous to the lack of a female player character in Generation I, which was rectified in the respective remakes.

Heh, "minor problems". Yes, a bad introduction of new Pokémon is a minor problem. The shafting of what should have been a Region as important as every other is a minor problem. And I sure hope you're not serious about such issues being "fixed". Check FR/LG thoroughly, I beg of you.

-RBY didn't have a wild Pokémon distribution problem, so there was nothing to fix in this regard in FR/LG. They just made it more like a mix of Red/Blue and Yellow, with Mankey and Meowth available, and the like.
-They didn't fix the Level issue. They made it worse. To begin with, they didn't have to fix it in any way whatsoever. RBY didn't have a Level issue either. But then came FR/LG, and we get unwanted changes. What happened to Giovanni's Rhydon? What about the Elite Four losing 2 levels from the originals? This is what I call a stupid, unnecesary change. It doesn't matter that the Sevii Islands exist. In fact, since they exist and you go visit them before Giovanni, the Levels should be higher, not lower. :/

Yes, they did acknowledge the Male/Female Trainer choice, and then lost it elsewhere. At least they still had Breeding, but... what about the game's clock? Even if it was a bad clock like the one in RSE, scrapping it makes no sense. Having it wouldn't change or screw up the "spirit" of the originals either. Instead, we're left without it, and having pretty much no possibility of evolving Eevee into Espeon and/or Umbreon. Minor issue, right? It's still one. Oh, let's not forget it screws people without capability of trading with RSE. At least Colosseum and XD gave you access to them... but it's still an issue. Not everyone got these games either. You also need the GCN/GBA Cable. And if you have XD, you have to restart in order to get the one you didn't.

What about the inhability of looking at Ribbons or the lack of Pokéblocks? Yes, they'd be, at most lights, unnecessary, but they still cause problems. After all, you do get a Ribbon in FR/LG (For beating the League). Funny to get something that you can't see unless you transfer the Pokémon to another game. As for Pokéblocks, one word: Feebas. Still nothing to write home about, but if you want to have a Feebas with FR/LG's Trainer's OT and ID, it's very annoying to have to trade back to RSE, feed it Pokéblocks, evolve and trade back, don't you think? I mean, even without Contests, they could've made the Beauty Berries edible and capable of increasing the Contest Stats in FR/LG. Or they could've had Contests at Sevii Islands. It's not like they're not mentioned at all. Daisy is a Contest Champion after all.

Oh, but clearly, useless and annoying features like the forced, unable to be disabled "Previously on your Journey" flashbacks that happen every time you Continue, or the also forced, unable to be disabled animation when feeding an Item to one of your Pokémon, were way more important. At least the latter is a way to see how friendly the Pokémon is with you, but... Daisy could tell you that. It doesn't matter if she does it only after getting the National Pokédex. It's not like you can do anything with a Pokémon's friendship before then. Only teaching your Starter the Super Move at Two Island, and by then, unless you dropped it on the PC, your Starter is fully evolved and loves you already.

No, I don't see how they fixed any nonexistent issues in RBY with FR/LG besides the Male/Female choice. Hilariously, they actually caused even more issues with their experimenting and useless features. Yeah, this gives me many hopes for a GS remake.

 

[Omega Mark XII]

My battle with red lasted well over an hour.

Damned Snorlax.

 

[AquaDanMichiyo]

I remember beating him on my first try...ironically, I found that Pikachu was his easiest to defeat. (probably because of low defensive stats)

 

[VeggiePopper]

Yes, his Pikachu was the easisest, but I remember that Espeon and Snorlax gave me a lot of trouble. Still, it was level 81...

 

[DCM]

Espeon always gave me a run for my money, but thats because at that point I had no clue about SP attacks vs Physical Attacks, or that Psychic was weak to dark......

 

[bell02+]

I know, and I don't care. That fact doesn't makes the glaring flaws negligible or nonexistent. But hey, after looking what they did regarding the Diamond/Pearl to Platinum transition, I won't be surprised they remake the games as they were and fix nothing, living in their bubble (Which seems to be the bubble of several fans as well) that those games were perfect. News flash, they weren't.

If they remake GS, they'll definitely improve parts that were lacking. They made that very clear with Fire Red and Leaf Green, so I don't think there is anything to worry about. Also platinum does make basic game improvements to DP offering many things that people wanted.

As for Gold and Silver... go back and play any pre-GBA game. They are all pretty easy to tell you the truth. GS definitely was designed to be easier, no doubt about that. I don't even think that it took multiple play throughs to notice everyone was weaker... but Red kind-of felt like a RB player, which may or may not be considered difficult.