1. The July 16th episode of the Bulbanews Weekly Round up can be found on Youtube here.

Regarding Current American Immigration Policy

Discussion in 'Announcements and Events' started by Hector, Jun 26, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Hector

    Hector OHO Social Media Coordinator

    Blog Posts:
    21
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    40,603
    Likes Received:
    716
    As the saying goes: “the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” As members of a larger community, and as a community dedicated to a franchise popular among children, we the staff of Bulbagarden cannot sit idly by as the fundamental values of our community are trampled on.

    Bulbagarden strives to be a community where all can feel welcome. And as a community, we have denounced intolerance, prejudice, racism, sexism, and all forms of bigotry and discrimination. What is currently happening at the US-Mexico border, as well as throughout the United States, is simply something that we cannot ignore. Families have been torn apart for no discernable reason, and, to make matters worse, despite the fact that families have been reunited, the children are being used as a means to blackmail the parents into guilty pleas in the hopes of seeing their children sooner. This is completely unacceptable, and, until a full resolution occurs, will continue to be an outrage and a blemish upon the United States.

    Thousands of children have been taken from their parents and being kept in cages, placed into internment camps. Not even infants are exempt, as they are taken away from their parents and placed into so-called tender age camps. People are being treated as criminals simply for seeking asylum from homelands torn asunder by violence or famine, which is a legal and protected right under law and treaty. Not only that, but the use of the children to persuade the parents to plead guilty to charges they are innocent of is despicable. This is not right. This is not the America that is supposed to be the leader of the free world. This is not the America that is a champion of democracy and human rights. This is a travesty, a moral debacle, and completely inhumane, and it should be condemned as such by any decent human being.

    But what can we do to help? As always, if you are living in the United States, please contact your elected officials. Make sure they know that this needs to be dealt with quickly and compassionately. There are also several charities that you can donate to, even if you do not live in the US, that will support the people at the Karnes family detention facility in Texas or that will attempt to reunite these broken families. You can also take part in days of action in your neighborhoods.

    President Eisenhower once said, “History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.” As we see abuses of power by our elected officials, we cannot be weak and we cannot be timid. As the Galactic Battles opening theme goes: “Stand up, for what is right. Be brave, get ready to fight.”


    Find Your Representative | House.gov

    U.S. Senate: Senators

    RAICES Charity Page


    (As a post script, I've chosen to add a brief editorial about the creation of this post and the motives behind it. It should be obvious that this is not a political issue or a Republican vs Democrat issue, but a human issue. To that end, I feel that it's important to note that this post was put together by a few of our American staffers, staffers that hold diverse political opinions. Because this is about treating people the right way, showing those who have suffered greatly a small bit of empathy and compassion. It is not about winning political points and never was.)
     
  2. Rath

    Rath Active Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    361
    This IS a political issue, and it has no place here.

    I don't disagree with the message, but using a platform/website that has nothing to do with politics in order to push a political agenda is poor form.
     
    marisakirisame likes this.
  3. Gengarzilla

    Gengarzilla The Mega Evolution you love to loathe!

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    Messages:
    2,893
    Likes Received:
    2,529
    It isn't a political issue, it's just being pushed and exasperated by people in the political sphere. This would still be deplorable even if we take politics out of the equation.

    Personally, I'm glad to see that the staff of Bulbagarden are speaking out and can find unity in empathy. It makes me proud to be a part of this community.
     
  4. TRNatalie

    TRNatalie Active member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    I don't understand how it can be considered to be a political issue in the first place. It's a humanitarian issue first and foremost. What's happening is basically government sanctioned kidnapping. That should not be okay for anyone. This isn't a question of politics, it's a question of having human decency. (As I write this, I'm finishing up a polite but passionate letter to Congress.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  5. Rath

    Rath Active Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    361
    Political, humanitarian, doesn't matter. The point it is that is has nothing to do with Pokemon and thus has no place on this site.

    People come to Bulbagarden for Pokemon, not politics or humanitarianism.
     
  6. Vulpix037

    Vulpix037 Lightning Pokémon

    Blog Posts:
    22
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2017
    Messages:
    1,959
    Likes Received:
    6,577
    I definitely agree with Hector, Gengarzilla and TRNatalie that this isn't a political issue. Technically, keeping children inside cages counts as child abuse. Especially since they've been separated from their parents as well. Although I don't live in the US of course, I have heard about it in the news.

    Anyway, as the tweet states, "An attack against them, or people like them is an attack against what makes Bulba possible." I definitely agree here as well.
     
  7. OrionTheAbsol

    OrionTheAbsol New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    18
    @Rath: With all due respect, this issue is not at the forefront of Bulbagarden and will not replace the Pokemon theme. However, you are free to pass up on this topic if you don't particularly care for it, as others can as well. The staff is also free to spread awareness on a national issue that they feel more people should look at. It's like handing fliers out next to a grocery store. You can choose to look at it or toss it out.

    I also like a forum that doesn't just focus on one specific theme either. That would be absolutely boring.
     
  8. Rath

    Rath Active Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    361
    The staff are obligated to publicly maintain a neutral stance on matters like this.

    You don't see stuff like this on Serebii, because Joe knows what people come to his site for.
     
  9. Evie

    Evie Sheep Queen of Bulbagarden Chief of Staff

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,560
    Likes Received:
    998
    Obligated?

    The staff are volunteers who are freely giving away their time to give you a site. If you want us to have obligations to you, you can buy the site and start paying us.
     
    phidari, TheCapsFan, EscLucy and 17 others like this.
  10. OrionTheAbsol

    OrionTheAbsol New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    18
    That's Joe's decision, though. And if he wanted to put out a topic like this, he could because he's the owner. Furthermore, using his site is free and you don't have to pay him to use his site.

    Same principle here. I own a site that reviews games and animations, but I also have the right to talk about other issues too. I don't get paid for it either. If people don't like the stuff I'm putting out because their world views don't share mine, that's not my problem. They can go find another place that lines up to their views.
     
  11. theworldofkevinc

    theworldofkevinc Working to help with dub related content

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    305
    @Rath We are not obligated to be neutral on anything. I think Bulbagarden brings everyone together, so getting everyone together on a major topic like this is important, at least in my book
     
  12. Froyo

    Froyo Excited.

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    822
    Likes Received:
    726
    Well, this is absolutely. fucking. hilarious of you [and anyone else] to say.

    Here's a thing, bud. You don't decide what has or hasn't a place on websites you don't own nor pay for lmao. That's for starters. Secondly, having nothing to do with politics? Seriously? People from different nations, backgrounds, ages, sexual orientations, ethnicities, gender identities and more come to this place. And the site - at least last I checked - attempts to be a welcoming space for people coming from most of these. That alone is politics, because people and their interactions are political by nature. This site has a *lot* to do with politics, as such.

    It's ridiculous to say that X message doesn't belong here because it's "political". That's not helpful in any way whatsoever, definitely not to the people affected by what the message is referring to, and the "this doesn't go here because politics" mindset is inherently harmful, silencing messages that seek to help the oppressed and inform the privileged - even if they're not directed at you - for arbitrary reasons is inherently harmful. Please rethink your statement here, it does zero good.

    It being in "poor taste" is a sign of a privileged individual not liking seeing a message of support to those not as lucky as them. That's dangerous and selfish.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  13. Harmful Heron

    Harmful Heron #FreeDankula

    Blog Posts:
    28
    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,951
    Likes Received:
    345
    Must resist urge to spam Raz0rfist content. *Grinds teeth*

    Also really late on the ball.
     
    Poke Trey and Vulpix037 like this.
  14. soundsnice

    soundsnice New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    3
    As totally not a troll (hey, given the surroundings...) I totally like, want to state my support for this, and, like, this isn't a political issue, at all. Just like abortion isn't a political issue, and I shortly expect another thread to be up by administration here denouncing abortion given the literal like, genocides committed each year. Surely you don't support genocides? After all, silence is compliance... :)

    And like, you better not, like, be upset or anything dude, when like, some people make a thread on their own forums - or even Reddit, because why not? - expressing their support for white, black, asian, nationalism, or basically, anything you might dislike, like, that's totally cool. We should push it on kids too, given like, you are doing so yourself. I mean, like, why not? It's your rules, so like, whatever.

    Honestly, you're embarrassing. But, I'm sure people will remember. And gosh darn it, I hope as hell they enforce your own rules against you.
     
    Thanos, Poke Trey and marisakirisame like this.
  15. marisakirisame

    marisakirisame New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just made an account to ask because I am curious if this is not a political issue, does that mean that you won't ban people for disagreeing with it? I think most people can respect advocating for whatever point of view you believe is the just one, but you should consider that if you become an echo chamber and a laughing stock like neogaf that most people will probably be alienated by that and therefore your views won't catch on too. Censorship and intolerance just doesn't work regardless of any side of the political aisle that it's on. Most conservatives and right-wingers and etc. are humans too and they have valid grievances to be anxious or resistant to immigration, even if you don't understand or want to understand it. I think if you approached those people with empathy too, then you would be helping to demonstrate that diversity and multiculturalism doesn't have to be scary to the people who are scared by it, which doesn't mean you have to moderate on your position that detention centers and border control are bad, it would actually be consistent to say that "we're willing to give anyone hugs as long as you're a decent person, which is why we're against this in the first place".
     
  16. Froyo

    Froyo Excited.

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    822
    Likes Received:
    726
    Abortion is genocide? What? Do you, like, know the definition of "genocide" like, I'd expect someone to before, like, flinging it around?

    Tip, people who perform abortion aren't thinking "KILL ALL BABIES" lol. Nor does that mean they're targeting babies. They *are* exercising the autonomy over their bodies they *should* by all means have to not give birth to someone they a) don't want to have or b) can't have [which would lead the fetus to be born in either condition, by the way. I hope you feel that much """empathy""" about children living in suffering because their parents didn't want them or can't meet basic human needs].

    And I also expect you to speak against people designated male at birth to not ever make use of their reproductive system in any way whatsoever. That can definitely lead to the deaths of millions by your standards.

    Finally, what a pathetic way to divert from the topic at hand; "If you're talking about this recent issue you should also talk about this constant issue" - I'm sure Bulbagarden has their stances on abortion too, but these two issues have little in common, and you equating them is a very intellectually dishonest way to tell them to not send a message at all.
    Well, it *is* their right, if it was their site. Just like it would be my right to speak up against messages of hate, or to flat out leave - which is also a perfectly viable alternative for people online if we don't like a message someone is sending. Don't like it? Leave. Sucks but that's that, I won't spend my time somewhere I feel is sending a hateful message, and I also can't tell them what they can or can't post.

    Also lol at pushing it into kids. Yup, I bet posting this on the one forum I doubt most kids check, out of sight from the conversational threads, is "pushing it". Do you also think someone wearing a shirt depicting a hammer and sickle is pushing communism into you?
    Cool story. Says a lot about you.

    I'm no staff, but I wager that depends on how you "disagree" with it. Does your disagreement involve respecting that others here think differently and care for the people affected by this issue? I don't think you would. Does your disagreement involve saying that immigrants deserve to be deported, separated from their families and all around be treated in a less than human manner? ...you'd deserve to be banned, to put it bluntly.
    Being anxious about immigration is one thing. Supporting the disgusting treatment given to many people right now is something else entirely, why should someone supporting immigrants being put on concentration camps be treated with empathy at all? Why don't *they* extend any such basic empathy?
     
  17. Scarlet Sky

    Scarlet Sky One-Armed Hermit

    Blog Posts:
    26
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    8,645
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    I'm not even sure I'd say the staff is taking a stance on immigration itself as much as the new zero tolerance policy. Regardless of whatever your stance on immigration may be, breaking up families is wrong. I'm not sure there's really much debate to be had there. Though given our current political environment, I suppose even that would be difficult for people to agree on.
    However, I'm not inclined to believe that people that support this policy are deserving of empathy, given that it's incredibly dehumanizing. (In addition to other actions and statements by this administration.)
     
  18. Enzap

    Enzap Very Interesting Indeed Head Administrator

    Blog Posts:
    2
    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Messages:
    15,052
    Likes Received:
    4,677
    When we moderate posts we don't think of it in terms of "do we agree with this statement?" We delete posts that actively harm individuals or groups, such as ones using slurs or generalizations. Bulbagarden embraces diversity of opinions, but, to use an extreme example, saying "Immigrants are here to steal jobs" is not just stating an opinion. It's an unprovoked attack on an entire group of people that delegitimizes anyone belonging to that group and takes freedom away from them.

    I can't speak for every staff member, but I do sympathize with people concerned by implications of completely unregulated immigration. However, the current response from the federal government is needlessly harsh and creates a much more immediate concern for the well being of the people on the receiving end of these policies. I can see both sides of the argument to a degree, but the actual suffering of the people who made the incredibly difficult choice to come to this country seeking refuge is really outweighing the potential problems that immigration might bring for me as of right now.

    I hope that was a clear enough answer for you. If you have any other questions about how we enforce our rules or other policy issues then please feel free to ask us.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  19. Hector

    Hector OHO Social Media Coordinator

    Blog Posts:
    21
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    40,603
    Likes Received:
    716
    As a minor point of order, I'm the one who wrote the editorial at the bottom of the post. And while I did say I was not being political (and I didn't want to bring my political views into this message), I am in fact a registered Republican who has donated a sizable amount of money to multiple Republican presidential candidates in the past as well as having networked and fundraise for a former Republican senator in my home state (both the Senator in question and one of the Republican presidential candidates are men who I have met and spent time with IRL and admire as men of honor and principle). So in this particular case, I can state confidently that at least one conservative who has spoken about concerns about immigration policy in the past was consulted and helped write this message. There's a time and a place for those legitimate discussions (H1-B and H2-B visa abuse by corporations that harms both foreign and domestic workers is a huge issue that needs to be on the table for any immigration reform), but the current situation has made it so a singular focus needs to be on reuniting these children with their families.

    I would love for both sides of the debate to come to the table to come up with a bi-partisan compromise solution for immigration reform (along with many of the other issues that plague our nation), but it takes two sides that want to negotiate and discuss in good faith. In addition, I feel that our position is consistent. Diversity, multiculturalism and treating your fellow man with compassion and empathy are good, detention centers and separating parents from children as a method to blackmail families in immigration court is bad. There was a reason we were careful not to mention political parties or any current politicians (I'd also like to point out that the post starts with a famous quote from a Democratic president and ends with one from a Republican). The reason why multiple people were involved in drafting this statement was to do our best to avoid partisan rhetoric, and in this I think we did well.
     
    phidari, EscLucy, Piabet and 8 others like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.