SwSh Regional Dex Discussion

[Phosphene]

Because fans are like spoiled brats? Since gen 5 constructive criticism is rare.

Um... since gen 5 there’s been nothing but intense criticisms of the games.

 

[Matleo]

Um... since gen 5 there’s been nothing but intense criticisms of the games.

Intense yes but constructive? Like steel elephant copper electric material? Volt absorb or lightingrod or that speed rising one motor drive. Centiskorch using Dig and getting Dry skin. That new pinguins ability should react to physical and special moves.

 

[Phosphene]

Intense yes but constructive? Like steel elephant copper electric material? Volt absorb or lightingrod or that speed rising one motor drive. Centiskorch using Dig and getting Dry skin. That new pinguins ability should react to physical and special moves.

New penguins? Centiskorch? Spoilers! That aside, I don't see how those are any more constructive than other criticisms of the games.

 

[Snowy]

I think the only factor here is time. The time it takes to make the models.

I mean... this is the highest-grossing franchise in the history of the world. If Game Freak asked for bigger carts to put more models on, Nintendo would likely do what they can to make it happen.

In my opinion, Pokemon's yearly cycle has become a detriment to the franchise.

 

[Zeta]

Transitioning to 3D was a massive mistake. GameFreak clearly don't have a lot of experience, talent, or resources to make 3D models and they should probably go back to sprites done in the style of indie games if they want the games to be sustainable with their stupidly limited team and poor design choices when it comes to team size, communications, and resource management.

That being said, I knew it was a possible eventuality, however I reasoned:

1. By the time it was a problem Pokémon would be a dedicated online game that can adapt to infinite content
2. If not we wouldn’t even have to worry about it till we were well past a thousand
3. If it did happen it would come with a detailed appearance plan that clearly laid out appearance windows for each species instead of a random assortment of characters based on whatever made Masuda tingly on one day in the office.

GameFreak took the stupidest option out of all 3 scenarios I envisioned.

Frankly, the series isn't sustainable at this point, with this direction, under this creative team. Even Dexit is only delaying the inevitable. It's quite clear at this point that Pokemon, a series that was meant to be about picking your six favorites from a cast of hundreds - now has three and only three "main characters": Pikachu, Eevee, and Charizard. They are the only three characters that matter, and if they're not your favorites, there's really no reason for you as a player to stay with the franchise. There are MUCH better JRPGs that are worth more, in time and money and quality, than what the series has devolved into since X and Y really started this death dance.

People forget that Pokemon was once one of many monster franchises. Some equal to or better than Pokemon in quality. Why did Pokemon survive this long? Well the ONLY thing they did different was making a concentrated effort to support all legacy Pokemon going forward. Every other monster franchise that had sequels - Telefang, Monster Rancher, Digimon - randomly cut monsters from one installment to the next. In a genre that focuses on player choice and bonding with partner creatures basically for life, this choice makes absolutely no sense. With the exception of Digimon, all of these franchises have died out, and even Digimon is largely a shell of its former self.

I fear that Pokemon is treading down this path. But I see an even darker path ahead of the franchise.

Sonic the Hedgehog was once a celebrated institution in gaming till SEGA reached a point where they realized that they didn't have to put effort into the games to technically turn a profit. They could make money off of animation deals and merchandising alone. What followed was a quick and rapid slide down from AAA titles to games on par with shovelware - their purpose no longer to sell comprehensive or passionate gaming experiences but to act as a vector to license cartoons and toys from. Sonic still exists, a zombified monstrosity of its former self, pumping out game after game that nobody likes but that apparently sell just enough to keep the husk of SEGA profitable for one more year. With the familiar refrain that every Sonic developer that's left SEGA ringing in their ears: "It doesn't matter how bad it is! Kids are stupid! They'll buy it anyways! JUST MAKE SURE IT SHIPS BY CHRISTMAS!"

This is the path Pokemon has chosen for it.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Because fans are like spoiled brats?

Spoiler

Intense yes but constructive? Like steel elephant copper electric material? Volt absorb or lightingrod or that speed rising one motor drive. Centiskorch using Dig and getting Dry skin. That new pinguins ability should react to physical and special moves.

So you're saying they removed Pokemon because they weren't getting enough feedback on what abilities they should be giving Pokemon? That makes zero sense.

 

[bulbasaur99]

Spoiler

Transitioning to 3D was a massive mistake. GameFreak clearly don't have a lot of experience, talent, or resources to make 3D models and they should probably go back to sprites done in the style of indie games if they want the games to be sustainable with their stupidly limited team and poor design choices when it comes to team size, communications, and resource management.

That being said, I knew it was a possible eventuality, however I reasoned:

1. By the time it was a problem Pokémon would be a dedicated online game that can adapt to infinite content
2. If not we wouldn’t even have to worry about it till we were well past a thousand
3. If it did happen it would come with a detailed appearance plan that clearly laid out appearance windows for each species instead of a random assortment of characters based on whatever made Masuda tingly on one day in the office.

GameFreak took the stupidest option out of all 3 scenarios I envisioned.

Frankly, the series isn't sustainable at this point, with this direction, under this creative team. Even Dexit is only delaying the inevitable. It's quite clear at this point that Pokemon, a series that was meant to be about picking your six favorites from a cast of hundreds - now has three and only three "main characters": Pikachu, Eevee, and Charizard. They are the only three characters that matter, and if they're not your favorites, there's really no reason for you as a player to stay with the franchise. There are MUCH better JRPGs that are worth more, in time and money and quality, than what the series has devolved into since X and Y really started this death dance.

People forget that Pokemon was once one of many monster franchises. Some equal to or better than Pokemon in quality. Why did Pokemon survive this long? Well the ONLY thing they did different was making a concentrated effort to support all legacy Pokemon going forward. Every other monster franchise that had sequels - Telefang, Monster Rancher, Digimon - randomly cut monsters from one installment to the next. In a genre that focuses on player choice and bonding with partner creatures basically for life, this choice makes absolutely no sense. With the exception of Digimon, all of these franchises have died out, and even Digimon is largely a shell of its former self.

I fear that Pokemon is treading down this path. But I see an even darker path ahead of the franchise.

Sonic the Hedgehog was once a celebrated institution in gaming till SEGA reached a point where they realized that they didn't have to put effort into the games to technically turn a profit. They could make money off of animation deals and merchandising alone. What followed was a quick and rapid slide down from AAA titles to games on par with shovelware - their purpose no longer to sell comprehensive or passionate gaming experiences but to act as a vector to license cartoons and toys from. Sonic still exists, a zombified monstrosity of its former self, pumping out game after game that nobody likes but that apparently sell just enough to keep the husk of SEGA profitable for one more year. With the familiar refrain that every Sonic developer that's left SEGA ringing in their ears: "It doesn't matter how bad it is! Kids are stupid! They'll buy it anyways! JUST MAKE SURE IT SHIPS BY CHRISTMAS!"

This is the path Pokemon has chosen for it.

10/10

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

why did we have to wait so long between USUM and SwSh?

I’m sorry, but far from a wide-spread complaint, so far I’ve seen literally no one say this: and I’ve also been to negativity cesspools like Reddit.

The sizeable amount of people currently complaining will gladly take longer development times.

 

[Zeta]

I’m sorry, but far from a wide-spread complaint, so far I’ve seen literally no one say this: and I’ve also been to negativity cesspools like Reddit.

The sizeable amount of people currently complaining will gladly take longer development times.

I think at this point we know it's not the fandom clammoring for shorter dev times. It's 99% likely to be Pokemon Company International who like to have Ash onscreen with a new Pokemon at least every other episode.

The fact that the new anime is actually Pokemon Go the anime and will revisit old Pokemon at a time when GameFreak is slaughtering them and tossing them into the trash makes me suspect that PCI basically bullied GameFreak into making a massive blunder and are now attempting to distance themselves from the mess they caused and putting ALL of their bets on Niantic as the stewards of the franchise going forward. This is the only real charitable scenario I can come up for GameFreak.

 

[Astro Pantherion]

Regarding this whole Dexit situation....has no one really thought of the following idea that Sword and Shield may very well be a full reboot of the series, like a complete new reboot of the games we used to know, and that being a reason why our old mons from the past games can't be transferred any longer and why there's 60% missing from the entire currently known number of Pokémon? And when I speak of a reboot, I also mean a reboot of the National Dex, hence why its not here in the Sword and Shield games.

I like to think it is, and that in future games, you may be able to transfer Pokémon again, starting from Sword and Shield into newer games down the line. I mean, sure, GF "has stated" that there would never be a National Dex ever again, but I find that hard to believe. What I think is that they may have meant to say that older games are no longer getting supported, including the National Dex of the older games, and thus are planning to redo stuff within the Pokémon game franchise, starting with the Pokémon models, mechanics, etc. They are already simpifying the mechanics behind the ability to create viable competitive Pokémon for players who want to explore that area.

Basically, as I like to think so, I see Sword and Shield as our new starting versions of Red and Blue of today, seeing as they are the very first full RPG games for the Switch (lets say Lets Go was a test of sorts here). I mean, back in the old days of Red and Blue, there was no such thing as a "National Dex" until the newer gens came along. Maybe that same reason can be applied to the Pokémon Switch games of Sword and Shield?

Maybe that is the reason why the older games, which ended with Gen 7 on the 3DS are no longer compatible, and thus the Pokémon which didn't make it, have to be updated and be redone in future games as to support and take advantage of the new Switch ecosystem.

At least, that is what I like to think. I can be completely wrong and off with my ideas and what GF is truly planning, especially if there's the possibility of Gen 4 being remade and becoming our new Gen 2 within the Switch Pokémon games family. I like to think its their way of completely phasing out the Pokémon games of the 3DS and eariler handheld systems to make way for a brand new, Nintendo Switch game only series of Pokémon, and to do so, they are starting with a lower number of Pokémon.

That or maybe I'm just crazy here, so call me out on this if you want.

I got this idea because in the forums of Serebii, I have noticed that the discussion forum for Sword and Shield aren't labeled as "Pokémon - Generation VIII Discussion", but rather the forum itself for these games are just labeled as "Pokémon Sword & Shield Discussion", as if they aren't considered as Gen 8, but rather a new start, a complete new series of games for the Switch, the new Gen 1. That or they still have to change the title, so this could be nonsense coming from me.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Regarding this whole Dexit situation....has no one really thought of the following idea that Sword and Shield may very well be a full reboot of the series, like a complete new reboot of the games we used to know, and that being a reason why our old mons from the past games can't be transferred any longer and why there's 60% missing from the entire currently known number of Pokémon? And when I speak of a reboot, I also mean a reboot of the National Dex, hence why its not here in the Sword and Shield games.

I sincerely doubt that a full reboot of the series would include a removal of two of the Kanto starters.

I like to think it is, and that in future games, you may be able to transfer Pokémon again, starting from Sword and Shield into newer games down the line. I mean, sure, GF "has stated" that there would never be a National Dex ever again, but I find that hard to believe. What I think is that they may have meant to say that older games are no longer getting supported, including the National Dex of the older games, and thus are planning to redo stuff within the Pokémon game franchise, starting with the Pokémon models, mechanics, etc. They are already simpifying the mechanics behind the ability to create viable competitive Pokémon for players who want to explore that area.

They didn't say "There will never be a National Dex"-that's just how fans refer to it because it's the simpler version. What the said was that every Pokemon game from now on will only be able to transfer in Pokemon that were included in the regional dex.

Maybe that is the reason why the older games, which ended with Gen 7 on the 3DS are no longer compatible, and thus the Pokémon which didn't make it, have to be updated and be redone in future games as to support and take advantage of the new Switch ecosystem.

But if this was the case, why not still keep the Pokemon with their old stats to avoid the controversy of removing them entirely?

 

[yudgefudge]

GameFreak clearly don't have a lot of experience, talent

WHAT DID YOU SAY? GAMEFREAK HAS NO TALENT? HAVE YOU EVEN LOOKED AT THE SWSH 3D MODELS?
Man, you sound like fucking DistantKingdom.

 

[Zeta]

WHAT DID YOU SAY? GAMEFREAK HAS NO TALENT? HAVE YOU EVEN LOOKED AT THE SWSH 3D MODELS?
Man, you sound like fucking DistantKingdom.

They don't do their 3D modeling. It's contracted out to Creatures Inc. Because GameFreak themselves have admitted they had no experienced members of the team to handle it. These models were then intended to be used indefinitely so that there would never be a dex cut.

But guess what? They're so bad at even working with 3D, still after six years, that they failed at implementing the models for SWSH and had to throw out their catalogue of models that they no doubt paid thousands of dollars for to do them all again by hand.


Or supposedly they did. They've changed their story on why Dexit happened SO many times (there's at least five different contradicting explanations) that we can't be sure about any of it anymore.

 

[yudgefudge]

They don't do their 3D modeling. It's contracted out to Creatures Inc. Because GameFreak themselves have admitted they had no experienced members of the team to handle it. These models were then intended to be used indefinitely so that there would never be a dex cut.

But guess what? They're so bad at even working with 3D, still after six years, that they failed at implementing the models for SWSH and had to throw out their catalogue of models that they no doubt paid thousands of dollars for to do them all again by hand.


Or supposedly they did. They've changed their story on why Dexit happened SO many times (there's at least five different contradicting explanations) that we can't be sure about any of it anymore.

Once again, sounding like DistantKingdom. I'll really suspicious you watch that mindfuck of a channel.
But back on topic, do you know a damn thing about 3D animation? How do you know that it is possible to "import" the models?
I t ' s n o t t h a t s i m p l e

 

[Zeta]

Once again, sounding like DistantKingdom. I'll really suspicious you watch that mindfuck of a channel.
But back on topic, do you know a damn thing about 3D animation? How do you know that it is possible to "import" the models?
I t ' s n o t t h a t s i m p l e

I don't care. GameFreak claimed it was for the launch of Pokemon Bank! Either they lied to US THEN OR THEY ARE LYING TO US NOW.

T H A T I S S I M P L E!

 

[Guzma]

This thread is reminding me why I'm ashamed to be part of the Pokemon fandom nowadays, so here's a shitpost to lighten the mood.

Like, I'm not happy with what a lot of the choices in the Galar Dex, either, but I'm not going to attack Game Freak for it. Their morale is already at a critical low because they're being attacked for something they had to do because TPC and Nintendo basically forced them to release a workable game in time for Christmas. They could have either put all the Pokemon in and released something that they rushed to program the actual game and created something as bare-bones as XY, or put only some of the Pokemon in and release something that'll be at the very least a decent game with actual play value.

 

[yudgefudge]

I don't care. GameFreak claimed it was for the launch of Pokemon Bank! Either they lied to US THEN OR THEY ARE LYING TO US NOW.

T H A T I S S I M P L E!

Bruh. Look at you. Look at you and all your BBND members. Y'all are full-grown adults, performing protests, spamming the Pokemon twitter, and other shit like that because of the absence of a bunch of DIGITAL DATA in a children's game.
t h a t 's a h o t t a k e

 

[TechSkylander1518]

But back on topic, do you know a damn thing about 3D animation? How do you know that it is possible to "import" the models?
I t ' s n o t t h a t s i m p l e

I don't agree with the way Zeta is attacking Game Freak, but we do have quite a bit of evidence that importing is pretty simple.
Look at how similar the LGPE models are to 3DS models:

View: https://twitter.com/_DJTHED/status/1149932815154159616

Look at how Hop can be given an identical animation to Hau:

Spoiler

We can also look at websites storing the models and see that you can rip 3DS models onto computers and store them in the same way as Switch models.
3DS - Pokémon X / Y - The Models Resource
Nintendo Switch - Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! / Eevee! - The Models Resource

Bruh. Look at you. Look at you and all your BBND members. Y'all are full-grown adults, performing protests, spamming the Pokemon twitter, and other shit like that because of the absence of a bunch of DIGITAL DATA in a children's game.
t h a t 's a h o t t a k e

I've never seen anyone perform any kind of protest over this. And telling people "You should feel embarrassed for wanting this feature back in a game you like, and you should feel guilty because people that share your opinion are being rude about it even if you're not" is also a hell of a take.

 

[prog rocker]

Meanwhile, me in the background

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[Guzma]

This thread is so toxic right now it badly poisoned me.