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RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

Do YOU consider RNG to be legit?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 62.8%
  • No

    Votes: 16 37.2%

  • Total voters
    43
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I have been back and forth on this question for about a year now, and just wanted to see what other people think. So I ask you, is RNG legit or cheating? Through my time deciding this, I have commonly heard these arguments among MANY others.


It's not cheating:
1.You aren't altering the game's coding in any way

2. The developers could have changed how eggs worked if they didn't like it

3. It's still difficult (and thus skillful) because you have to find your secret ID, which isn't always easy

4. It's impossible to compete against other players competitively without doing it




It is cheating:
1. The developer's did not intend people to RNG

2. You still require an outside resource in order to do it

3. Breeding was made difficult on purpose, to prevent this exact thing from happening.

4. If you don't have time to breed Pokemon the right way, then you shouldn't be competing competitively at all. Go play Pokemon Online or Shoddy Battle if you can't take the time to breed



there are PLENTY more things to consider, but these are the main ones I could rally off the top of my head. What do you think?
 
KYUREM FORMS ERRYWHERE
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I personally consider RNG an alright method for getting battle worthy Pokemon in relatively short amount of time, so I'm only going to address the "it's cheating" side arguments.

1. The developer's did not intend people to RNG
And how do you know that? You have absolutely no proof to support your claim, unless your dad works at Game Freak or something. No official statement was made on RNGing being bad as far as I know.

2. You still require an outside resource in order to do it
You require an outside resource (an IV calculator) to check your IVs too. Hell, you need an outside resource (Bulbapedia) to check the encounter ratio of Pokemon on any given route! Ban Bulba?

3. Breeding was made difficult on purpose, to prevent this exact thing from happening.
No proof. Next.

4. If you don't have time to breed Pokemon the right way, then you shouldn't be competing competitively at all. Go play Pokemon Online or Shoddy Battle if you can't take the time to breed
I think this argument would apply to the discussion about PokeSav/PokeGen much better than this one. As the OP has pointed out, RNGing is still difficult and consumes quite a bit of time. Learning RNG itself is a good 2-3 hours of work, and even then, doing your first few resets is a bit of an trail-and-error process. As the time passes on, you will obviously start getting your flawless Pokemon much quicker, but still, this initial learning phrase cannot be ignored.

Looking forward to seeing how this thread evolves.
 
追放されたバカ
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It's definitely a legit method of obtaining otherwise rare Pokémon, yes. You're using a feature in the game, that the creators provided, to its fullest potential and efficiency, to get what you want. As you said, there is no altering of the game's code involved, or anything like that, it's just timing. It can also be considered a reward for people that bothered to learn that much about the mechanics of the game, I suppose, and there's nothing wrong with that.

RNG is the Higgs boson of the Pokémon games. One of the main things that will be understood if (when) the Higgs boson is found will be vast knowledge of gravity and how to affect it, just as increased knowledge and control of breeding is a result of knowing about RNG. When the Higgs boson is found, will there be discussions regarding "cheating", or anything like that? No. Both of these situations are simply unlocking additional knowledge using the tools you're provided with.

Comparing RNG to the Higgs boson is pushing it, I know, but you get my point.
 
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And how do you know that? You have absolutely no proof to support your claim, unless your dad works at Game Freak or something. No official statement was made on RNGing being bad as far as I know.
Of course it's cheating, you're manipulating the game in your favour. No official statement has been made? Well of course not, they're not going to tell us how to play our own games, even when they made them.

3. It's still difficult (and thus skillful) because you have to find your secret ID, which isn't always easy
I don't see how difficulty affects if it's cheating or not, of course it's going to be hard.
 
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The Possibly Fake
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You need your secret ID to RNG...yet is there a legitimate way to find your secret ID?

Honestly, I don't know whether or not to count it as cheating. After all, what does TPCi's ban on "using external devices" to modify Pokémon etc actually mean? Can an RNG reporter be considered an "external device"? I don't know. However, I will say that I don't consider it very fair on those who don't RNG (either on moral grounds or simply not understanding it).

If I know a Pokémon is RNGed and I battle it, I generally don't care though. I've had Pokémon traded to me that are RNGed and I can breed Pokémon to the level of an RNGed one; it takes time, but it's possible. It's only with things like Thundurus and Tornadus where it starts to get on my nerves.
 
The Possibly Fake
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If you mean legitimate as in simply not using an Action Replay, then yes, there is in Gen IV.
Stupid question of the day then: How?

So that means Generation V RNG still requires an Action Replay to find out your secret ID? =3.
 
追放されたバカ
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Stupid question of the day then: How?
I'm not sure how it works from memory because I thought it looked way too hard at the time, and I have an Action Replay so I just used that. I know for sure that there is a way to do it, though.

So that means Generation V RNG still requires an Action Replay to find out your secret ID? =3.
Maybe so, or it just hasn't been discovered yet.
 
KYUREM FORMS ERRYWHERE
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There are numerous methods to find out your ID/SID without cheating. You can capture a random shiny or several chained ones and do a bit of math. Then, there's a Red Gyarados trick in HG/SS, as well as the Radio Tower one. But the easiest one has to be checking it via PokeCheck or IR-GTS. If you don't know what are these, look it up in google. And if that method doesn't suit your tastes, then you can simply RNG your preferred ID/SID combo at the start of the game (which is very easy in BW btw) and be done with it.

It should also be noted that ID/SID is needed for shinies only. You can easily have a legion of flawless Pokemon without knowing your SID (which is the main concern of this discussion), just they won't be shiny.
 
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I must say yes. You're not even using external devices such as Action Replay or anything, all you need is "patience". Yes, there are devices such as RNG Reporter and PokeRNG, but I must say they weren't "external devices" since you do not connect the game with it, it just acts as a guide for RNG abusing Pokemon. I'm an RNG abuser myself, and RNG abusing is really easy if you learn it, but just like what I've said above, all you need is "patience", because there's a time that you might not hit the right mark and you have to start again until you finally done it. It's much easier to RNG abuse in Generation V than in Generation IV anyway. :)
 
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The term "legit" to some players means "passes legitimacy checks designed to detect hacked pokemon", by which definition RNG'd pokemon are legit. There is no objective test you can apply to determine whether a pokemon was definitely created using RNG abuse or was just the result of very good luck in breeding.

So I avoid the term "legit". But I regard RNGing to be an exploit and I don't want RNG'd pokemon. They are worthless to me.
 
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Well, catching an RNG abused Pokemon is just like catching an ordinary Pokemon, just that you have to start the game on the right minute, second, and millisecond depending on your spread and that you have to do things like doing head/tails Magikarp thingy in D/P/Pt, and calling Elm in HG/SS to confirm if you hit the correct seed on your spread. So RNG abused Pokemon is just the same as ordinary non-RNG abused Pokemon when it comes to legitimacy since you didn't even used an AR or Gameshark anyway.
 
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Personally, I am not a fan of RNG abuse. I will concede that the pokemon obtained weren't created via some outside source. However, it still feels like tampering to me. I would relate the RNG abuse to a loaded dice. Once you learn how to do this method, you have essentially guaranteed an outcome to a normally random event (and in this sense I do mean random and not setup by flipping the coin/doing an action at a precise time/etc...). I do not battle competitively and so I may be a little biased in the sense that I don't require my pokemon to perfect. Regardless, this method takes away the mystery and probablities that are a fundamental piece of playing pokemon. I would feel cheated if I got the strongest pokemon with the best stats just by exploiting a system someone found hidden in the code because it required little effort on my part. I don't judge people who use this method, but it takes a lot of meaning out of the game for me.
 
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It's technically not cheating but it is a little unfair if it is not disclosed.
 
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I dont see anything wrong with RNGing. I mean,even if the chances are slim you still can get flawless pokemon without having to manipulate your nintendo DS clock. So, what's the difference?
 
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I hate RNGing. Not only is it a bit lazy to do, you loose the satisfaction of all that time you spent raising that good Pokemon, and even though the Pokemon is technically just a bunch of coding on a cartridge, your personal connection to it just dissipates.

And unlike others, I don't go for perfection, because that's way too lofty of a goal. I go for the best I can go for. Unlike the other competitive battling websites out there like Smogon, I try my best to win, but I try to have a bit of fun with it too, no matter if I win or loose. Plus, many of my non-RNG'd in-game raised and bred Pokes have beaten many RNGd Pokemon before.
 
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If those Pokémon are used in competitive battle against other players then, yes, I consider it to be cheating. But I don't play competitively and I don't care what others choose to do with their games.
 
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No. It's not fair that RNGers should get flawless/Shiny Pokemon without putting in the effort to hatch loads of eggs to get that perfect one. It just makes them so much less special, and it takes away the sense of achievement you get when you get that amazing Pokemon. Just play the game how it's meant to be played.
 
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for me i see it as cheating, especially when people use it for shinies even though that isn't the worst thing. I was talking with this kid and he started saying all these shinies he had at first i was like cool how did you get them? then his list kept going on and on of the shiny pokemon he had, they were all gen V. Then it came to me i asked did you rng for them he said yes which automatically seemed unfair to me because it takes the fun out of it in my opinion
 
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Before you read my response, I would like to say that I respect everyone's opinion 100%, and I know that RNG'ing isn't for everyone.

To everyone who says "RNG'ing is unfair."
-That statement could not be any more untrue. Anyone can learn to RNG. The only things you need are a computer, an Internet connection, and a DS System with a Pokemon game. That's it. There is no 'elite group' or anything like that.

To everyone who says "It takes the fun out of it" or "You lose that sense of accomplishment".
-....You're kidding me, right? Not only do I consider RNG'ing fun, but the sense of accomplishment after each successful one is huge. And how would you know anyways?! If you haven't tried RNG'ing, you can't post and say that there is no personal connection, or fun, or sense of accomplishment, or anything. You're posting off-topic. This thread is about whether or not you consider it legitimate (which I absolutely do), not to complain that you "can't" do it when the truth is you can't be bothered to learn how (or you believe it truly is cheating, which I respect). There is a distinct difference between actually thinking it's cheating and just thinking it's unfair. One can be disputed, the other certainly cannot.
 
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