Rocket: You.. You're not GIOVANNI's kid, are you?

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

So...where does this go? And is there any sort of differential translation on 'kid' that would indicate the possibility of non-familial relations?

Seriously, if he has a kid, this is big stuff, especially for Rocket obsessives and fanfic writers. And it's going to piss a lot of people off, too.

And...why haven't we heard this before? You'd think this would be all over the net once it came out in Japan.

 

[Fig]

Not agreed. There's a massive lack of communications between Japanese and American game fans - most of what we know of the games before their english release is the work of enterprising english game fans who arrange to obtain copies of the game in advance.

Meowth here being of course one of the frontrunners of that.

As for "Which is the red hair", the point of the matter is that of course beyond Misty and Silver you also have our dear old friends of the Elite Four, Lorelei and Lance, who are both red hair, and the confusion with the main character can sort of be understood - he is a young talented trainers sticking it to the Rocket, and certainly both of the E4 duo are young, talented, and both of them stick it to the Rockets in at least one set of games (FRLG for Lorelei, GSC for Lance).

(Age difference is not that relevant ; pokémon heroes tend not to carry their age all that well - Gary is most certainly NOT acting or looking like a ten years old, and Ash while he's somewhat more childish is no ten years old either, and that's not even mentioning May... - plus, when you are staring down someone who is opposing you in a fight, their age is probably NOT the first thing you'll notice about them.

 

[Zhen Lin]

かぞくや ともだちは?
…いや サカキの こどもは かみのけが あかい らしいから おまえ とは ちがうか

Let me dissect.

"Kazoku-ya tomodachi-wa?" -- As for family and friends, [are you one of them]?
"Iya" -- Well,
"Sakaki-no kodomo-wa" -- as for Giovanni's child
"kami-no ke-ga" -- [his] hair
"akai-rashii" -- seems to be red
"-kara" -- therefore,
"omae-to-wa" -- as for you,
"chigau-ka" -- do you differ? / you seem to differ.

There is no other way of sensibly translating kodomo, that I know of.

 

[Archaic]

....would someone remind me why we're only considering Silver/Black, and not giving any consideration to Gary/Shigeru? IIRC, all we know in regards to the latter is that his parents are supposedly dead. That's a pretty huge cliché in these kinds of things right there. True, he doesn't quite have the hatred of the Rockets that Silver/Black does, but then again, it's not like he'd actually know who his father is in this scenario. If we wanted to point to entirely circumstantial evidence (Which has no impact on the anime, no surprise, given that the info comes from FR/LG anyway), we could even look at him taking over the Viridian gym as a potential clue-in.

 

[Fig]

Arcy, probably because Gary does not fit the "red-hair" qualifier too well.

Hrm.

Interesting bits from the fameseeker that people either missed in the original games or that were added since :

Daisy Oak : She is something of a celebrity (mentioned everywhere) - and a pokémon contest winner!

Brock - has been known to go fossils-digging in Mt. Moon

Misty - Her fangirlism toward Lorelei is now game-canon!

Lt Surge - contrary to popular belief he wasn't an infantry type, but a plane pilot using electric pokémon to power his plane! Also, his american origin seems to be confirmed again, as a quote refers to him saying "while home in America"...

Koga - Besides Koga's daughter being mentioned again, interesting tidbits about Koga are that he act as the guardian of the Safari Zone, and more interestingly that he is reported to be one of the most talented healers in the land.

Blaine - Blaine is possibly a relative of Mr. Fuji...

Lorelei - A few quotes refer to Lorelei having a surprising secret. In addition, it appears Lapras was possibly her first pokémon.

Bruno - trained with Brawly before.

Agatha - Had a lasting rivalry with Oak, apparently of the same variety as Gary and Ash.

Lance - The (game-canon) relation between the GSC Elder, Claire and Lance is pretty clearly enunciated (I don't remember if it was stated in GSC) : Lance's grandfather is the elder of a famous clan of dragon masters and his cousin is a dragon gym leader somewhere far away.

Bill - his first pokémon was an Abra.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Archie--since when has it been said that Gary's parents were dead? If I recall, one manga said that, and it was never said elsewhere; thereby it's only canon in that one manga.

And Gary has red hair. It's reddish-brown.

Speaking of which, Dami, since when has Lorelei had red hair? It's always looked purple to me, which is nowhere NEAR red.

Say, if it *is* Silver, I wouldn't put it past him to *say* he's Giovanni's kid in order to gain access to the warehouse (seriously, the guards aren't that bright)

Interesting the differences between the anime and games here...like Brock's more 'stony' personality (someone had to say it!), Surge being a pilot (which frankly, I think, goes against what the games said about him being in the *ARMY*. Oh, and Dami--it was ALWAYS confirmed that he was American. Remember the sign right outside his gym?), Oak being consideribly older (around Agatha's age? If she was around 50 like he is on the show, no one would keep commenting about how old she is because that's not all that old)...

Apparently now, Erika is narcoleptic. She sure isn't on the show, in Special, or in the card comics (which are the only other incarnations of her I can think of)

And I seem to recall that in G/S/C, Lance and Clair weren't related, but were simply members of the same Clan. Heck, didn't someone in Crystal come out and *say* they weren't related?

*sigh* If they put this "redheaded kid" plot on the show, I'll be very disappointed in them. If the Boss has a son that he's close with, I'm certain we would have heard about it by now (ie, Meowth would have said something, or whatever).

Notice I say 'close with'. I'm sure he gets around (seriously now, if you were in his position, wouldn't you?) and may have a few kids he doesn't know about, and possibly a few he does but hasn't kept up with...

 

[Fig]

FRLG In-game Lorelei

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Now that's a redesign I hadn't seen. It was purple in the previous games.

 

[Fig]

She barely even had any color, seeing as the last version she appeared in was Yellow that didn't make too much use of coloring...

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Yeah, but the official art of her (before her appearence on the show, btw) always had purple hair.

 

[Fig]

*Shrugs* Apparently that's not what the game designers had in mind for the character.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Or they just were smoking crack like the anime writers. They gave everyone somewhat of a redesign for this game, but I think she's the only one with changed hair color.

 

[Fig]

Yeah, it seems the Elite Four has access to a stylist with a LARGE stash of dye.

Lance :
-Red hair (FRLG, Stadium, Anime)
-Purple hair (Board games)
-Dark (Brown-black) hair (GSC)

Lorelei
-Red hair (Stadium, FRLG)
-Purple hair (Manga, Board games)
-Dark red/reddish-purple hair (Anime)

Agatha
-Lavender hair (Stadium)
-Pink hair (Board games)
-Gray hair (Manga, etc)
-Gray-blonde hair (FRLG)

Apparently they're letting someone else in the magic hair dye stash :

Sabrina
-Green-black hair (Anime)
-Blue-black hair (TCG)
-Pale blue hair (FRLG)

 

[Zeta]

Or the anime's lack of Janine. Or the switching parents of the R/S lead and rival (and a sudden little brother on the show) Or Elm's vanishing family (I don't think Joy would flirt with him if he was married like he is in the games).

The point I was trying to make is that existing familiar relations in other media tend not to be broken - new ones can be made - but if they're related in the games, they're problably related everywhere else, too. Aside from Elm, I can't think of a good example of a two family members being unrelated in the anime or manga after having an established family in the games. There have been unincluded characters (Janine, Daisy) - but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist in the anime.

As for the switching of the parents - huh? Norman and his wife are the parents of the main character in R/S - and that can be May OR Brendan. For the purposes of the anime, it's May. As for the added little brother - he still doesn't break any in-game family relationships - he's simply added on.

And as far as we know, on the show, Birch doesn't have any family either (just that one pretty guy assistant, as my roomate points out)

Yes, but it would certainly make sense to see Brendan introduced as his son. There's nothing to disprove the connection.

Oh yes, and another huge difference between the games, the show, and Special...

Yeah, we know all of the differences. I'm talking about character families, specifically. The point I'm making is that we haven't yet seen a case where say . . . President Stone of Silph and Steven Stone are announced to be totally unrelated.

 

[Fig]

For the curious ones, here are most of the relevant FRLG characters (the rival and Prof Oak are iirc the only two other "important" (ie, not random trainers) characters with battle-type sprites.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

As for the switching of the parents - huh? Norman and his wife are the parents of the main character in R/S - and that can be May OR Brendan. For the purposes of the anime, it's May.

That's what I mean by switching--because the game CANNOT be canon on this point.

 

[Zeta]

For the curious ones, here are most of the relevant FRLG characters (the rival and Prof Oak are iirc the only two other "important" (ie, not random trainers) characters with battle-type sprites.

Actually, Mr. Fuji and Bill have got battle-type sprites now, too - for the Voice Checker.

Mr. Fuji's appropriately shows him alongside his newly-orphaned Cubone. And oddly enough, he's got a Weedle on his back, too.

It's nice to see Bruno was heavily redesigned so that he no longer looks like a slightly more muscled version of Brock.

 

[Transfinite]

That's what I mean by switching--because the game CANNOT be canon on this point.

*blinks* I still don't get it. Well, of course the game can't be canon on that point -- the game was designed so that you can play as either gender. I don't see how making Norman May's father constitutes "switching." That would imply that in the game, Brenden is the main character and May is the rival, which isn't necessarily true.

If Norman being May's father is "switching," is manga!Norman being Ruby's father also "switching"? *boggles*

 

[Archaic]

Yeah, it seems the Elite Four has access to a stylist with a LARGE stash of dye.

Given that I've got a grannie living in my building who's dyed her hair Rei blue, the chopping and changing of hairstyles and colours doesn't seem too much removed from real life to me.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

If Norman being May's father is "switching," is manga!Norman being Ruby's father also "switching"? *boggles*

No no, I'm saying 'switching' strictly in reference to the game itself! In the anime, Norman is May and Max's father--that's set. It's also set that Norman is Ruby's father in the manga. But in the GAME, no such thing is set.

And NeoKuwa--Bruno always looked more like Ryu from Street Fighter to me, only kinda squished.