Rocketshipping Club...!!

[Argy]

My, my, what a surprise. I never thought I'd see the day when I create a club. Not that I even consider it a club... It's really just a free-for-all discussion.

Well, since complaints were being made about Rocketshipping discussion being in the TR Club, we've brought it here. Use this topic to discuss the relationship between Jessie and James. Platonic? Madly in love? Dormant affection? Hatred? Talk about it!

Guidelines:

1) No blind bashing, but dissent is encouraged! If you really dislike Rocketshipping, share! Let's get some (friendly) debates going!

2) This is for all forms of Rocketshipping, Queershipping, etc. included.

3) Post pictures, links to fics, whatever you want, as long as it's on topic.

4) Do not ask to join. Like I said, it's not really a club. Just go ahead and post and you're in.

5) HAVE FUN!

 

[spokethewind]

Like I said in our TR forum, I love you.

Let's get it started! (These have been my favorite pictures for years now heh, excuse the cross dressing one. I'm just used to it and find it... romantic I know, someone smack me and tell me that is very disturbing.)

 

[Argy]

Sorry to be a downer, but http://www.team-rocket.nl/hoso6.htm.

I'm still not sure what to think of that. He earnestly wanted to leave Musashi and Nyarth and stay with Rose. He wouldn't be that willing to leave if he was in love with Musashi. Also, Musashi didn't seem to care that he left, other than he still had work to do in Team Rocket.

HOWEVER, I believe the main reason he wanted to stay with Rose was because she was the only one to ever really appreciate him. Think about it. No woman has ever looked up to him (except maybe that Temaku girl, but she was scary) or given him special attention. We've noticed how excited he gets when Musashi gives him positive attention. This is overload for him. Still, I think he would have stayed with Rose if he had the chance...

 

[spokethewind]

lol yeah I agree. I thought I read that he wanted them to stay with him... I dunno. I've not seen it outside the japanese version which I don't understand one word of. Oh well, I'm really not a fan of that episode. It's cute he liked her, but I dunno, it made me really mad inside. But when you've been a fan for so long I guess things like this are gonna happen and it doesn't bother me b/c they DIDN'T split up. Besides, Rose wasn't pretty imo.

 

[fruitsmoothierevenge]

I wasn't really complaining about the shippyness, not at all! But I know I could debate it forever, and all of those non-shippers wouldn't have been as happy. ^^;;;

HOWEVER, I believe the main reason he wanted to stay with Rose was because she was the only one to ever really appreciate him. Think about it. No woman has ever looked up to him (except maybe that Temaku girl, but she was scary) or given him special attention. We've noticed how excited he gets when Musashi gives him positive attention. This is overload for him. Still, I think he would have stayed with Rose if he had the chance...

I agree with you 110%. Jessie never really says that he does anything good or right or decent. She's only said it like 2 times. So he was eager to stay with someone who he knew cared about him. The most interesting part to me was that she wanted him to stay when he said he wanted to. It was a twisted way of making him happy. I don't think that, if they had stayed, she would have been happy.

I've only seen the Japanese version of it. They keep that part in tact, right? I'm getting so itchy, I may have to download the English to satisfy my curiosity.

If anyone wants to read my post on this ep and why the name change annoyed me, go to my LJ post about it --> http://www.livejournal.com/users/tragic_elegance/114905.html Caution: strong language...

 

[Marill]

Hurray, I'm joining this club.

carry on, I'm not in a "debating" mood right now

 

[Jo-Jo]

Huzzah! I wub Rocketshipping. <3 For anyone who cares, my stance on it in canon is that the writers were going somewhere with it at the very beginning, but dropped it after the first season and Jessie and James are now the definitive male/female platonic pair for all time. And dub!James is gay.

As for the Rose thing, I don't think that James's falling "in love" would have killed Rocketshipping, provided that Jessie had gotten jealous. If I were writing the series with a view to pairing up J&J at the end, I would probably have done it that way. Because - again going into this-is-how-I'd-do-it-if-it-were-up-to-me mode - I can see one of the obstacles for the pairing being that Jessie is very impatient and critical by nature, and acts even more harshly towards James because she likes him, either consciously or subconsciously, and is frustrated by his refusal to make a move. And James interprets her behaviour as a sign that she's not interested in him. So he becomes infatuated with Rose because she, unlike Jessie, is adoring and hero-worships him. Throw in a scene with upset!Jessie, include a moment at the end where James is moping about losing Rose and Jessie cheers him up, and voila! Rocketshipping episode. ^_^

 

[fruitsmoothierevenge]

I can see one of the obstacles for the pairing being that Jessie is very impatient and critical by nature, and acts even more harshly towards James because she likes him, either consciously or subconsciously, and is frustrated by his refusal to make a move. And James interprets her behaviour as a sign that she's not interested in him. So he becomes infatuated with Rose because she, unlike Jessie, is adoring and hero-worships him. Throw in a scene with upset!Jessie, include a moment at the end where James is moping about losing Rose and Jessie cheers him up, and voila! Rocketshipping episode. ^_^

I think Jessie cares for him a lot, but she only shows it when she knows that she'll get a response back, or in a rare moment. I think that she's still in a "no one loves me, so screw them" phase. But James is gonna kick her out of it. ^_^ I think the Rose situation had the potential to make her even less trusting because, after all, he was still going to leave the rest of the team behind. But the fact that he asked if he could leave showed that he was more upset with it than anything. I think eventually her would have ended up missing her so much that he would have went to find her again.

 

[spokethewind]

Yeah we've got to remember, James and Jessie have been together for a LONNNNG time. Whenever Pokemon Tech happened for them. And if we take into account they were reunited in the Origin of Truth and Love than yeah they apparently had a major problem and left each other b/c of it, but overlooked it when they were paired up and decided to be the "BEST OF FRIENDS" again! Which has been working well for them. And yeah, I think Jessie's pissed that no one loves her and that will just take time and trust to break down. lol which James kinda blew... but I think he'll get it back in the end.

 

[Argy]

The irony of the Hoso series is that in the two Team Rocket episodes, we get more insight into Musashi and Kojiro's relationship than in 100+ episodes of the regular series. Also, they show how their relationship has changed over time.

Hoso #3: Kojiro wants to leave to be with Rose; the only reason Musashi appears to object to this is because he still has work to do. When he whines that his happiness is gone, she basically says nonchalantly, "get over it." Note that this wasn't in an annoyed or jealous tone of voice.

Hoso #12: Kojiro and Musashi reveal to each other (in what I think is the most intimate scene they've ever had together) that they're both alone in the world, without love. Then, they vow to be good together. In my view, this change would only be possible if they had known each other before being paired up in Team Rocket- why would they have had any reason to be angry with each other, and why would they have made up so quickly if they didn't already know each other? Back on track, the episode continues with Kojiro offering twice to leave so that Musashi and Nyarth could go on to bigger success. Musashi adamantly refuses both times, telling him that some things are more important and that they do everything together. Then we have that awkward scene... There was obviously something going on there.

However, comparing these two episodes, it appears that, unlike one may suspect with two friends together for a long time, they are not growing closer, but rather growing apart. I wish the regular series would just give us some clues so it doesn't seem like they are constantly flip-flopping between love and hate.

 

[fruitsmoothierevenge]

Hoso #12: Kojiro and Musashi reveal to each other (in what I think is the most intimate scene they've ever had together) that they're both alone in the world, without love. Then, they vow to be good together. In my view, this change would only be possible if they had known each other before being paired up in Team Rocket- why would they have had any reason to be angry with each other, and why would they have made up so quickly if they didn't already know each other? Back on track, the episode continues with Kojiro offering twice to leave so that Musashi and Nyarth could go on to bigger success. Musashi adamantly refuses both times, telling him that some things are more important and that they do everything together. Then we have that awkward scene... There was obviously something going on there.

I love that scene. One could easily pass it by, but it's so significant. I agree, I think they must have known each other beforehand, or else it all would seem sort of out of place. As defiant as Koji is, he wouldn't speak to her (or she to him) so loosely if it was the first night camping out somewhere as a team. Obviously Kojiro is something that she wanted to hold on to (pun slightly intended).

The timeline is still kinda sketchy for me. Here's how I see it:
- Jessie goes to nursing school, while James is wherever
- Meet at Pokemon Tech for the first time; fast friends
- Flunk out, join the bike gang
-* Here's where it gets blurry. I think their separation has something to do with the stupid brown-haired guy from the Nidoran ep.
- Rejoin at Team Rocket training

Any other ideas?

EDIT: And yeah, it is amusing that these two stories tell us about them so much. They should really start telling us about them more. There's the handful of eps, but they haven't had a good TR-centered one for, what, 100 episodes? Last one I remember is AG4, where they say goodbye to Arbok & Weezing. Maybe you can count The Bicker The Better. And they ruined the motto in that mansion ep... grr.

 

[spokethewind]

lol that's kinda similar to mine.

- Hit up Pokemon Tech.
- Bike Gang
- Something happens. I don't want to say they had a relationship and then it got bad... whatever it was, either way something bad happens and they left each other. (cue bad boyfriends and possibly girlfriends)
- Jessie goes to nursing school/James works on his special talents.
- Both join TR not knowing the other was joining too.
- Bam. Cue failure.

I wish we saw them when they were in Pokemon Tech. We've seen them in everything but that. I bet they were cute w/ their uniforms :-D
And that scene, is it as sweet and intimate in the English version?

 

[Marill]

Not really (in my opinion, but I was too busy cringing at Eric's friggin' voice at it's worse ^_^) it is quite nice though. I just watched this last night on dvd, James just says that he has a feeling they could be a great team, possibly the best, and he promises not to let her down. Personally the best scenes for me are when Jessie and Meowth have to do that mission on their own, Jessie walks off saying that she's always on her own.. and of course second time Meowth/James fall. I'd love a translation of the Japanese one, it does sound better.. but I was still surprised at how 4kids dubbed it.

 

[spokethewind]

Well I could send you the japanese version of the show. Is there anyway you could get the English version up? Or know of a place where we Americans who don't own European dvd players could download it?

 

[fruitsmoothierevenge]

I'd love a translation of the Japanese one, it does sound better.. but I was still surprised at how 4kids dubbed it.

I've been working on a translation since the time I got it downloaded, but a few of the lines are still iffy to me. I'll like it checked by someone who knows Japanese, but there are a couple lines that I think are just so sweet... I could give you what I have so far, if you can follow the script.
I was also gonna work on a dub script, but that kinda got shut down by, y'know, the actual episode coming out. ^^;;

 

[Marill]

1 ) I do have the Japanese version, just no subtitiles or anything
2 ) I really don't sorry, all I can suggest is getting an European dvd player or wait for the dvd to be released in the US like we usually have to

 

[Argy]

I wish we saw them when they were in Pokemon Tech. We've seen them in everything but that. I bet they were cute w/ their uniforms

See attachment. It's fanart of the charinko bike gang, but still cute.

fruitsmoothierevenge, I would -love- to see your translated script. Also, anyone who has access to the dub- I'd like to read what the more significant lines were, as well. This goes for Hoso #3 regarding James and Kate, too.

 

[Marill]

regarding James and Kate? lmao ok

Kate: Do you think you could stay here and live with me.. uh us (not sure what the rest was)
James: uh (or something to that effect)

Sorry after that line I crack up, dunno why ^_^

 

[spokethewind]

omg that fanart is awesome. Did you do that Argy??

lol all James said was uh... lmao that's so him.

 

[Marill]

Well it was either uh, um or well. He said all those, oh and wait but that was after she ran off, calling herself a fool. Bless

Anyway people said he was willing to give up TR to stay, leaving Meowth & Jessie was the main option but in the dub he's only trying to convince those two to stay with them. Well he says something like "we should stay here and become real heroes," and "you might like it too Jessie, imagine the possibilities.." this is where he presses the buttom lmao.

Fav lines from "Training Daze" (I've added spoiler tags just in case)

Spoiler

Jessie: You'd better be good James, I don't want to have to carry you
James: Mmm mmm *waving finger* No one has carried me since my moma

Spoiler

James: Remember we're a team
Jessie: I remember but I hate whining

Spoiler

Jessie: Don't worry, I'll never let go of you
- un sure of James' line, it's something like "I dont know how much longer I can hold on
Jessie: Don't you even think of letting go James

Spoiler

Jessie: It always ends up just me, why does it always have to be that way. It's just not fair *(aaw, I felt so sorry for her there bless)
James*off screen in his bandages lol*: I thought you hated whining. Didn't I tell you I wouldn't let you down.

Spoiler

James: Listen to me. If you don't leave youll be wearing (??) stripes for here to eternity.
Jessie: You promised me that we would be the best, now just hold on

Sorry that's the best I can do until somebody else who's seen it comes along and can do better