Rocketshipping General Discussion

[TRNatalie]

Ohh!

Sorry.

I've missed something big, haven't I?

 

[ii kanji]

I've missed something big, haven't I?

I don't think so I think they just took this pic the day they went flying in their real life Nyasu hot air balloon... No idea how it got onto the internet, I found it during random surfing!

 

[TRNatalie]

That's a pretty cool find.

You've mentioned before that every time you watch The Origin of Love and Youth, you find something new. Of what you've found, what are the top five most interesting things to you?

 

[ii kanji]

You've mentioned before that every time you watch The Origin of Love and Youth, you find something new. Of what you've found, what are the top five most interesting things to you?

Hmm that's a tricky question because I've seen it so many times over so many years that I can't remember what I've always known and what was "new", but I'll try my best!

- The faint blush on Musashi's cheeks during That Scene: as if their pose weren't suggestive enough, the animator took the effort to draw a blush in to further hammer home how inappropriate that moment is!

- When Kojirou lets go the second time it first looks like Nyasu and Musashi are both holding him up but in fact Musashi is holding them BOTH up with some kind of superhuman strength! (Unsurprisingly, this happens to be the moment Kojirou really gets how much Musashi wants him to be there!!)

- How different the dialogue is between the dub and the original probably encompasses every other point from here to eternity LOL. The game changer that made me view this entire episode differently was that at the campfire they both make themselves vulnerable to each other by exposing the things that are weakest in their lives till now. This scene for me is now the really important shipping bit of the episode (where it used to be the missionary position bit ) If you believe that canon still has room for the bike gang/academy backstories then this could also be interpreted as a veiled apology.

- Takegami somewhat sacrifices the quality of the script to squeeze in so many references to Kojirou running away. He doesn't actually stick to his promise amazingly well in this episode (he let go BOTH times, even after Musashi desperately shouted the second time that she could not run away by herself!) but he subsequently is the only member of the TRio not to choose to leave the group on any occasion. [/s]Arguably there is the other horrible Hoso where he suggests it before he stitches himself up by pressing the button but I very much subscribe to the theory that he pressed the button on purpose![/s]

- Read this recently which was really nice.

 

[TRNatalie]

- Read this recently which was really nice.

That's so sweet. I'm sad I missed out on this.

How different the dialogue is between the dub and the original probably encompasses every other point from here to eternity LOL. The game changer that made me view this entire episode differently was that at the campfire they both make themselves vulnerable to each other by exposing the things that are weakest in their lives till now.

I unfortunately haven't been able to find the subbed version of the episode but I do know the changes done to the campfire scene. I have to wonder what the point of changing that was. How different is the mission scene?

If you believe that canon still has room for the bike gang/academy backstories then this could also be interpreted as a veiled apology.

I'm not going to lie, after reading the previous thread I started wondering if they just merely saw each other in a passing glance, maybe one small interaction but I like your theory a lot.
I wish they'd do one of these again to maybe show Miyamoto, what Kojiro was doing after running away, why Nyasu was alone, flashback to Love and Youth, 'now we have each other', but if they did that I guess it would be too telling too fast.

 

[ii kanji]

I unfortunately haven't been able to find the subbed version of the episode but I do know the changes done to the campfire scene. I have to wonder what the point of changing that was.

Honestly, I'm not sure it was done intentionally - do you credit the 4Kids writers enough to recognise that they were changing pivotal dialogue referring back to key aspects of Musashi & Kojirou's history?

Also, sadly there is no sub available, just the raw which is worth a watch just for the acting if you haven't yet seen it!

How different is the mission scene?

Which bit?

I'm not going to lie, after reading the previous thread I started wondering if they just merely saw each other in a passing glance, maybe one small interaction but I like your theory a lot.

I always oscillate between the pragmatic retcon theory and coming up with bullshit ways in which the old canon can be reconciled with this epiosde

I wish they'd do one of these again to maybe show Miyamoto, what Kojiro was doing after running away, why Nyasu was alone, flashback to Love and Youth, 'now we have each other', but if they did that I guess it would be too telling too fast.

What they need is an origins movie.

 

[TRNatalie]

do you credit the 4Kids writers enough to recognise that they were changing pivotal dialogue referring back to key aspects of Musashi & Kojirou's history?

Yeah that does seem to be giving them too much credit.

just the raw which is worth a watch just for the acting if you haven't yet seen it!

Alright. Thank you.

Which bit?

The part where Musashi stays to save Kojiro(and Nyasu).

What they need is an origins movie.

Yes!

and coming up with bullshit ways in which the old canon can be reconciled with this epiosde

Isn't this part of the job of fans after all? To fit the missing pieces together? I'm sure your theories make way more sense than any of mine.(A half hour after Musashi, Kojiro, and Nyasu become full members of Team Rocket, "Wait. Haven't I seen you somewhere before?")

 

[TheLazyEgg]

Isn't this part of the job of fans after all? To fit the missing pieces together?

I am far too lazy to be counted on to do that.

 

[ii kanji]

Hi @TheLazyEgg you appear to be new... welcome. Are you a Rocketshipper?

The part where Musashi stays to save Kojiro(and Nyasu).

Ugh so cruel subjecting me to watching the 4Kids dub to make a comparison
1. Absence of Eric Stuart's HORRIBLE acting.
2. When Kojirou and James both say to escape with the cat, Jessie says "the 3 of us are in this thing together" and Musashi specifically ignores Nyasu and says "I can't run away by myself!" (+ Megumi's delivery of that line probably makes it my favourite in the whole episode...)
3. The way he says her name after this is so tender in the original.
4. Musashi obviously doesn't reference James' promise to become the greatest team in history, as Kojirou promised no such thing. She just reemphasises the importance of them being together as friends.
5. After this he says "Musashi, Nyasu" again very tenderly rather than James' pathetic "Alright, I'll try."
6. 4Kids plays some generic dangerous mission type bg music as Musashi pulls him out, the original plays Tears After Cloudy Weather.
7. The heavy breathing sounds much more pronounced in the original - bet the seiyuu's had fun dubbing this!

Isn't this part of the job of fans after all? To fit the missing pieces together? I'm sure your theories make way more sense than any of mine.(A half hour after Musashi, Kojiro, and Nyasu become full members of Team Rocket, "Wait. Haven't I seen you somewhere before?")

Lol.
I think the Pokemon Semi thing is more easily explained away because Musashi & Kojirou are quite vague about it - I think it's possible that they were there at different times, especially as the original dialogue actually made it sound like both actually failed to get in rather than failed some internal examination.

Even in the bike gang flashbacks they're never seen together, although it stretches suspension of disbelief quite a bit that they would have been there at different times and known the same people and neither they nor the gang members would have commented on it when reunited!

When I'm not being pragmatic, by preferred fanon is that they never met at the school but had a brief but explosive relationship (not romantic) in the bike gang before parting acrimoniously. I definitely think there's a bit of room in the Hoso dialogue to allow for that!

 

[TRNatalie]

Hi there TheLazyEgg. Welcome.

Ugh so cruel subjecting me to watching the 4Kids dub to make a comparison

Sorry.

"I can't run away by myself!"

3. The way he says her name after this is so tender in the original.

After this he says "Musashi, Nyasu" again very tenderly rather than James' pathetic "Alright, I'll try."

Aww!!! Seriously though, Musashi's character development throughout the episode based on that line is amazing! And people wonder why I love these three!

6. 4Kids plays some generic dangerous mission type bg music as Musashi pulls him out, the original plays Tears After Cloudy Weather.

I'm playing the scene in my head while listening to the track. This makes such a bigger impact and it's so fitting.

And I agree with your points about the school and the bicycle gang.

 

[ii kanji]

Seriously though, Musashi's character development throughout the episode based on that line is amazing!

It legit is. I mean, my inference from the locker room scene is that she is deep-down desperate af to get a stable & supportive partnership, but given how closed she is about it, it's incredible that she is able to air that desperation so honestly by the end

 

[TRNatalie]

That's how I've always perceived the locker room scene too. It's so satisfying to see her drop her defenses in that scene and finally see things start to work out for her in the end.

 

[TheLazyEgg]

Hi @TheLazyEgg you appear to be new... welcome. Are you a Rocketshipper?

I am new around here! I've been a Rocketshipper since well before I knew what that even meant (let's see... the Charizard VHS tape came out in 2000 and had Holy Matrimony! on it...soo.....17 or so years of Rocketshipping?)

 

[ii kanji]

I am new around here! I've been a Rocketshipper since well before I knew what that even meant (let's see... the Charizard VHS tape came out in 2000 and had Holy Matrimony! on it...soo.....17 or so years of Rocketshipping?)

Wow that's a long time! I always loved the TRio but I didn't even consider Jessie & James as a couple until something like 2006 when I first saw the Training Daze episode at random on tv!!

Anyway, welcome Basic starter question - favourite Rocketshipping episode/moment?

 

[TheLazyEgg]

Basic starter question - favourite Rocketshipping episode/moment?

So, the moment that got me into the ship was when James pulled Jessie into the balloon at the end of Holy Matrimony, so that one will always be near and dear to my heart. However, the episode that I always seem to go back to because I just think it is too sweet and want to read an infinite amount of fanfic based around it is "Dressed for Jess Success." I especially love the "Dr. James's orders," line and imagining her reaction when he returned to the cabin...in fact, I am probably going to try to watch that episode again tonight.

 

[ii kanji]

Omg that scene when she is ill is SO perfect <3 Kojirou being indulgent of Musashi's insane whims and fancies is just about my favourite quirk, and that kind of "inside joke with myself" look he's giving her when he's holding her up and telling her that taking care of her health is the #1 priority kills me every time!

Speaking of which, my other favourite quirk is the counterpart to that - the Kojirou takes himself way too seriously and Musashi isn't having any of it thing.
I rewatched DP 142, that wacky evil Togepi episode yesterday. When he takes control of the Rocket (which is going to crash and they're all going to die) and he goes all Gendo Ikari

there comes a point when it looks like they're really ****ed and Musashi genuinely turns to him and asks him what to do next (before he blows it and says he doesn't know and she reacts) - I just really loved that for that second she believed he could save them

 

[TRNatalie]

Those are great scenes TheLazyEgg.

 

[ii kanji]

Shall we talk about something topical?

Based on everything we know about the characters, where do you think Musashi and Kojirou stand on marriage these days? (As an institution generally, to each other specifically After all this is the Rocketshipping thread!)

 

[TheLazyEgg]

Shall we talk about something topical?

Based on everything we know about the characters, where do you think Musashi and Kojirou stand on marriage these days? (As an institution generally, to each other specifically After all this is the Rocketshipping thread!)

Oy, that's a good one.
My opinion, take it or leave it, is that neither of them are against it as an institution.
Jessie seems to see it as a fantasy, but her version of the fantasy has gotten much more realistic as time has gone on. I mean, think about her imagined version of marriage in XY063. It wasn't this big dramatic prince in shining armor on a shiny Rapidash, but...like, matching t-shirts and sharing curry. When she's really realistic about things, I think she sees it as a form of stability-- a guarantee that a person will always be there, which is something she feels she's lacked in her life.
James is a harder nut to crack, so to speak. I think he isn't against the institution of marriage, but still connects it to Jessebelle when it comes to the prospect of him being married. Again, looking at XY063, he wasn't upset that Jessie wanted to get married, he was upset because she wanted to leave him behind. In fact, he was doing his darnedest to be happy for her finding someone she wanted to marry, so I think that shows that he isn't against the concept of marriage.
I think that if the dynamic duo ever did get together, it would take some serious convincing on Jessie's part to show James that he can be in a committed, documented, official relationship without it being used as a tool to control and dominate him.

 

[TRNatalie]

Based on everything we know about the characters, where do you think Musashi and Kojirou stand on marriage these days? (As an institution generally, to each other specifically After all this is the Rocketshipping thread!)

I'm not too sure on where Kojiro stands with marriage at the moment, having not seen the latest episode yet in case that suggests something new about his current feelings on marriage but I know Musashi was interested in that baseball player earlier in the series so... Their interactions lately are like a married couple but Musashi and Kojiro themselves don't view their relationship that way at the moment. Kojiro, from what I've seen, still seems to be dealing with his trauma but he clearly has feelings for Musashi and Musashi, while closer than ever to her best friend and more trusting of him, still seems to see him as just that but as we've seen with this series who knows what may come in the future and how it could impact them so this could change over time. Based on what we've been getting in SM so far, I can see them married in the future but they have some hurdles to get over before it happens.