Rocketshipping General Discussion

[Zayin]

I know. But you have to remember, that Rockets were meant to be comic reliefs, so the scene couldn't be too deep and dramatic (I was surprised enough that we got that much of drama and seriousness in this episode). No matter if you liked it or not, that was what mostly their role was about. That's why we're happy now that they became more serious now in BW, because it means that shipping will never get spoiled by a silly moment anymore

I do know that. Still, it bothers me they can screw up a character's reaction solely for being funny. There are ways to do it without creating contradictions. Oh well...

That's not what he meant. He thought that their team bond was strong, but it turned out that it was "that fragile" (as in "to the point you're leaving me like that"). I don't see how are you understanding word "that" like this, especially if it didn't have sense for him to think it was fragile in the first place. It would be contradictory with the earlier part of the episode.

As English is not my mother tongue, I could have interpreted this the wrong way. I took it as "Our bond was fragile, but was it that fragile?". I agree it doesn't make much sense, but Pokemon rarely does =x. The writers could have decided Kojiro didn't consider their bond to be strong since they went separate ways a couple of times.

As I said in my recent post, he wasn't talking about friendship bond, let alone love...

You said a bond between teammates, so I thought you meant friendship =).

I've seen numerous scenes like this one in other anime and sometimes a guy really didn't blush (girl on the other hand, did). So idk, maybe they wanted to make him look more "manly" or something? We had theory about him being too innocent for a blush, but actually, it may mean the opposite xD Well, Musashi for sure looked like frightened, innocent, shy virgin XD;

I've not watched enough anime to know. I can only remember of Love Hina with scenes like those and both main characters blush. I agree the manliness could be an explanation, even though we don't know James for being the most manly man ;P.

But for serious, I think that Kojiro simply was too shocked to realize what was going on yet really. If he realized it, he'd blush as hell and got up instantly instead of staring blankly in her face and panting heavily until Nyasu reminded about the mission.

I agree with you. One needs to be goddam innocent not to get what was happening and I'm convinced James would be the type to blush.


Randomness: Do you know about the anime called Jungle wa itsumo Hare nochi Guu? When Jessie starts spinning in DP117, it reminded me of the 7th episode at 2:20. I wonder if characters often spin like that in anime or it was taken from this . Anyhow I love that show!

 

[Dreamer]

Hi

Im so glad i found a forum that talks about this couple because they're awesome!!

And even better you're talking about THAT scene yeah!!

I always took he wasnt blushing because he wasnt really fully aware of the situation. I always took his face as looking at the side of hers and not staring directly at her which of course if that happened he would have blushed!!!

 

[Zayin]

Welcoooome! I'm new too, but I hereby declare I now have the right to welcome newcomers .

 

[Appletree]

(I hope I'm allowed to post fan art of this Shipping? ^^")

If so, I couldn't help myself to post this, I found it on 4chan:

Spoiler

[image removed; links needed]

(Talkin' about the picture, I sure wonder how they would be as parents)

 

[Musashi]

You can, but you need to link back to the artist. If you can't, you'll have to remove it.

Cute art though.

 

[Zayin]

Bah I would have liked to see it :3!

Can I start a random topic? As a fan you must do the same as me:
When listening to music, which song(s) can't you help associating with Jessie and/or James? xD

Here's some of mine:
- The overall feeling of the Night Work album by the Scissor Sisters. Especially Running Out and Nightlife ♥.
- Bad Romance and Born This Way by Lady Gaga. Oh and let's add the new song Hair for obvious reasons lmao.
- S&M by Rihanna lol (I've got to share this everywhere, I find it too funny =>):

 

[Musashi]

I've been busy the past week, so time to play catch up.

Would you also happen to have a full HD Team Rocket desktop wallpaper? My my I'm asking for so many things ^^".

Don't worry about it.

I can screencap any scene for you if you want a wallpaper. Just let me know what you want.

Aww yeah, a RocketShipping thread! Why didn't I see it?

Hi

Im so glad i found a forum that talks about this couple because they're awesome!!

Welcome you two! Always nice to have more shippers.

Going back to DP117 a bit, I wanted to show you guys a comparison I did of it since Dogasu hasn't gotten to that episode yet.

http://www.freewebs.com/rocketshipper/dp117comparison.htm

I did two more here if you want to read those as well. Hope you find them insightful.

 

[Zayin]

I can screencap any scene for you if you want a wallpaper. Just let me know what you want.

Going back to DP117 a bit, I wanted to show you guys a comparison I did of it since Dogasu hasn't gotten to that episode yet.

http://www.freewebs.com/rocketshipper/dp117comparison.htm

I did two more here if you want to read those as well. Hope you find them insightful.

Thanks for the screencaps, but I have several episodes on my hard drive that I could use. I was rather thinking of an artsy looking wallpaper .


I had read your DP117 comparison a few days ago, you've done a pretty good job. It's also a lot longer than most comparisons I've read on Dogasu and I appreciate that.


By the way, I've "read" on the Tv Tokyo synopsis page that TR is not gonna show up in the next week episode either! 3 in a row is too much for my liking.

Oh I just thought of two facts that have been bugging me for a while. I've read on many websites that Training Daze was contradicting the way Jessie and James met. However, I can't remember hearing anything like that explicitly (I'll check that later if needed ). I don't think the way they reacted after being reintroducted is necessarily contradictory. It's true they had met at Pokemon Tech and had joined a bicycle gang together before, but I guessed they might have left each others in a fight or something. That would explain Jessie's attitude. What do you think? I also find it weird most websites state that Jessie tried to become a nurse before joining Pokemon Tech and the gang. How would that be possible? Pokemon Tech students seem to be around 10, and no one tries to become a nurse at such a young age!

 

[Musashi]

Thanks for the screencaps, but I have several episodes on my hard drive that I could use. I was rather thinking of an artsy looking wallpaper .

Ah. Sorry, I don't have anything like that.

I had read your DP117 comparison a few days ago, you've done a pretty good job. It's also a lot longer than most comparisons I've read on Dogasu and I appreciate that.

Glad you liked it.

By the way, I've "read" on the Tv Tokyo synopsis page that TR is not gonna show up in the next week episode either! 3 in a row is too much for my liking.

Yeah, I saw that too. Here's the updated stats:

23/35 Overall Episodes. 65.714% of Episodes have contained them.

09/20 Episodes since the Rockets stopped appearing every week. 45% of episodes have contained them since BW016.

Oh I just thought of two facts that have been bugging me for a while. I've read on many websites that Training Daze was contradicting the way Jessie and James met. However, I can't remember hearing anything like that explicitly (I'll check that later if needed ).

It was right before the special started. Musashi was reading a letter from a viewer asking how the TRio met. That let right into the episode, so yes, all the Bike Gang and Pokemon Tech stuff never happened.

I also find it weird most websites state that Jessie tried to become a nurse before joining Pokemon Tech and the gang. How would that be possible? Pokemon Tech students seem to be around 10, and no one tries to become a nurse at such a young age!

lol. Musashi was clearly a teenager the two times we saw flashbacks to the nurse stuff.

 

[Zayin]

It was right before the special started. Musashi was reading a letter from a viewer asking how the TRio met. That let right into the episode, so yes, all the Bike Gang and Pokemon Tech stuff never happened.

Oh, I see. I have pictures from that scene, but I've never found what they were saying. That means there was either a mistake from the writers, or Jessie enjoys lying to her fans (or was drunk). Because no way the bike gang never happened haha.

lol. Musashi was clearly a teenager the two times we saw flashbacks to the nurse stuff.

Exactly! Didn't you see that chronology everywhere? I sure did. I've not even found another version yet xD!

 

[Musashi]

Oh, I see. I have pictures from that scene, but I've never found what they were saying. That means there was either a mistake from the writers, or Jessie enjoys lying to her fans (or was drunk). Because no way the bike gang never happened haha.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xg877v_rocket-side-story-opening_shortfilms

You can see the scene right here. It's an official part of the show, so yeah, the bike gang has been retconned. Its been referenced too many times in DP to be a mistake.

Why it was changed is anybody's guess. This is the way it's always been to me, so I don't really have any thoughts on it.

 

[Zayin]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xg877v_rocket-side-story-opening_shortfilms

You can see the scene right here. It's an official part of the show, so yeah, the bike gang has been retconned. Its been referenced too many times in DP to be a mistake.

Why it was changed is anybody's guess. This is the way it's always been to me, so I don't really have any thoughts on it.

It's true it's an official part of the show, but so is the bike gang. One can't change a character's past just like that as if nothing happened! What's done is done.

What do you mean by it's been referenced? Do you mean in the anime itself, as in J&J saying in several episodes they met at the training base? Oh and would you happen to know what "meet" verb Jessie uses in Japanese? Maybe it's a "meet" that can be interpreted as "re-meet".

Anyway, to me, what consisted in the plot of an old episode has to be taken more seriously than an introduction extra, especially since there is no contradiction within the Hoso episode itself (right?). Moreover, in that intro Jessie talks to real humans and shows children drawings; no way that happened in her life ;P.

 

[Musashi]

What do you mean by it's been referenced? Do you mean in the anime itself, as in J&J saying in several episodes they met at the training base?

I'm referring to the three times the anime has referenced the episode. The writers seem to consider that the beginning.

Oh and would you happen to know what "meet" verb Jessie uses in Japanese? Maybe it's a "meet" that can be interpreted as "re-meet".

It's 合う (au). And it wasn't the verb Musashi used, it was in the letter the child wrote.

Anyway, to me, what consisted in the plot of an old episode has to be taken more seriously than an introduction extra, especially since there is no contradiction within the Hoso episode itself (right?). Moreover, in that intro Jessie talks to real humans and shows children drawings; no way that happened in her life ;P.

I'd consider responding to a letter from a member of the audience to be just as canon as any episode.

 

[Zayin]

I'm referring to the three times the anime has referenced the episode. The writers seem to consider that the beginning.

Do you mind telling me how it's referenced? I don't remember :XD2:. It's true the Hoso special was about their beginning, but the beginning of Team Rocket - not necessarily of their relationship (excluding Meowth). Everything really depends on the way their sentences are constructed...

It's 合う (au). And it wasn't the verb Musashi used, it was in the letter the child wrote.

I see, thanks. So it seems the verb can be used as "I met my friend at the station." according to about.com. The following is a bit farfetched, but I think there's a way to interpret what Jessie answered as "when we met to become Team Rocket". I feel the need to connect every piece together so that it makes some kind of sense. Maybe the writers don't care about continuity though, as they constantly make Ash turn back to 10 years old. Silly writers, they make me angry sometimes.

I'd consider responding to a letter from a member of the audience to be just as canon as any episode.

Yeah, you're right, but if I had to choose between the two options I'd pick the old episode with the content of the Hoso episode but ignore its intro.

 

[Musashi]

Do you mind telling me how it's referenced? I don't remember :XD2:.

The Hoso was referenced three times:

DP092 - Back to Basics Rocket-Dan!?/A Lean Mean Team Rocket Machine! - Kojiro remembers back to their training days during a montage. (A picture of him crawling similar to the one below.)

I think we all know about DP117...

DP137 - Maril, Pochama, Elekid!!/Three Sides to Every Story!:
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=985979&postcount=4879

Kojiro was saying to Musashi it reminded him of their training days. When I posted the pic comparison I didn't even know he said that. XD.

I see, thanks. So it seems the verb can be used as "I met my friend at the station." according to about.com. The following is a bit farfetched, but I think there's a way to interpret what Jessie answered as "when we met to become Team Rocket".

Well the question was "How, Musashi, Kojiro and Nyasu met?". The Rocket-Dan wasn't mentioned once.

I feel the need to connect every piece together so that it makes some kind of sense. Maybe the writers don't care about continuity though, as they constantly make Ash turn back to 10 years old. Silly writers, they make me angry sometimes.

Takeshi Shudo always intended for Satoshi to never age. BW is just being consistent. Though that is a bit off topic...

But more on topic, I think DP showed they do they care about continuity since a whole bunch of old stuff was referenced throughout the series. But you have to consider that the Hoso is almost 8 years old. I think the writers have improved a lot since AG.

 

[Zayin]

The Hoso was referenced three times:

DP092 - Back to Basics Rocket-Dan!?/A Lean Mean Team Rocket Machine! - Kojiro remembers back to their training days during a montage. (A picture of him crawling similar to the one below.)

I think we all know about DP117...

DP137 - Maril, Pochama, Elekid!!/Three Sides to Every Story!:
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=985979&postcount=4879

Kojiro was saying to Musashi it reminded him of their training days. When I posted the pic comparison I didn't even know he said that. XD.



Well the question was "How, Musashi, Kojiro and Nyasu met?". The Rocket-Dan wasn't mentioned once.



Takeshi Shudo always intended for Satoshi to never age. BW is just being consistent. Though that is a bit off topic...

But more on topic, I think DP showed they do they care about continuity since a whole bunch of old stuff was referenced throughout the series. But you have to consider that the Hoso is almost 8 years old. I think the writers have improved a lot since AG.

Oooh! I think you just put your finger on the answer! That is if the question was exactly "How did Musashi, Kojiro and Nyasu meet?". The three of them did meet at the Team Rocket base! That doesn't imply Jessie and James met there as well! Phew I'm relieved now. I just listened to it and did understand "Musashi to Kojiro to Nyasu wa *some crap*".

In addition, if you're right about the references, then it doesn't imply J&J met for the first time at the base. Remembering their training doesn't imply anything more.

I hope I'm not annoying you ^^".

 

[Araragi-hakase]

Hello to all the new people! We're always glad to have more shippers here

In addition, if you're right about the references, then it doesn't imply J&J met for the first time at the base. Remembering their training doesn't imply anything more.

They weren't just remembering their training. Near the beginning of the episode, they were introduced to one another. If they had known each other previously, whether they left on bad terms or not, surely one of them would of said something.

It took me a long time to let go of the idea that they didn't "grow up" together going through Pokemon Tech, the Bike Gang, etc etc, because I grew up watching Kanto and these were all the things I believed for a really long time. But, like Musashi said, their training has been referenced more than once throughout the series, and the Bike Gang was forgotten. The anime was only supposed to last a year and a half originally. I don't know when the writers found out that the show was going to go beyond that, but the episodes with the Bike Gang and Pokemon Tech are early enough in that I'm assuming that they didn't know. What does that have to do with anything? They probably didn't have plans to show their Rocket training. As the show progressed and they did the HoSos, they decided to re-write the character's histories a bit to make more sense with the current canon. Pokemon Tech and the Bike Gang hadn't been referenced since their respective episodes, the training has. Not only that, but the targeted audience that's watching now wasn't watching 10 years ago, they don't know about what was done in the past. And it really doesn't matter now, it seems that the writers have decided to stick with the story that Musashi & Kojiro met while in Rocket training, or something close to that.

While the story about Pokemon Tech and the Bike Gang was cute, it's forgotten now.

Hope that helps

 

[Zayin]

Hello to all the new people! We're always glad to have more shippers here



They weren't just remembering their training. Near the beginning of the episode, they were introduced to one another. If they had known each other previously, whether they left on bad terms or not, surely one of them would of said something.

It took me a long time to let go of the idea that they didn't "grow up" together going through Pokemon Tech, the Bike Gang, etc etc, because I grew up watching Kanto and these were all the things I believed for a really long time. But, like Musashi said, their training has been referenced more than once throughout the series, and the Bike Gang was forgotten. The anime was only supposed to last a year and a half originally. I don't know when the writers found out that the show was going to go beyond that, but the episodes with the Bike Gang and Pokemon Tech are early enough in that I'm assuming that they didn't know. What does that have to do with anything? They probably didn't have plans to show their Rocket training. As the show progressed and they did the HoSos, they decided to re-write the character's histories a bit to make more sense with the current canon. Pokemon Tech and the Bike Gang hadn't been referenced since their respective episodes, the training has. Not only that, but the targeted audience that's watching now wasn't watching 10 years ago, they don't know about what was done in the past. And it really doesn't matter now, it seems that the writers have decided to stick with the story that Musashi & Kojiro met while in Rocket training, or something close to that.

While the story about Pokemon Tech and the Bike Gang was cute, it's forgotten now.

Hope that helps

Sorry, but I really disagree. The only way the bike gang & co could be forgotten would be that the producers officially announce it. Jessie and James' pasts don't need to be referenced in later episodes to stay true. If it had to, then Miyamoto wouldn't be Jessie's mom, Jessie wouldn't have tried to become a nurse, etc.

I don't see why the fact that their training/reunion has been referenced many times has anything to do with the way they first met. I'm not implying their Rocket training never happened! The three of them have met at the base and trained. That makes sense and it's a fact. However, I don't think we can assume J&J hadn't met before because of that child's question. That kid asked about all three of them, thus there is no contradition.

Then one could suppose Jessie and James didn't react much when they reunited because they didn't want to show they knew each others in front of their teacher.

 

[Araragi-hakase]

Sorry, but I really disagree. The only way the bike gang & co could be forgotten would be that the producers officially announce it. Jessie and James' pasts don't need to be referenced in later episodes to stay true. If it had to, then Miyamoto wouldn't be Jessie's mom, Jessie wouldn't have tried to become a nurse, etc.

You're right that something doesn't have to be referenced constantly to be true, but when something is referenced more than once, and is consistent, than it's accepted to be true for the canon. The Tech and Bike Gang were only referenced in their respective episodes, never to be spoken of again. Miyamoto doesn't exist in the anime, only on the CD drama that came out 10+ years ago. Musashi trying to become a nurse isn't really important in the big picture. It was referenced once later, so it's accepted as true.

The producers don't need to announce anything to make it official. The writers, story boarders, animators, etc etc decide how the show is going to go as it moves along. When an anime has been on for as long as Pokemon has, of course there are going to be inconsistencies, especially with staff coming and going.

The biggest thing that you're forgetting is the show's target audience. Yeah, we've been watching since Kanto, but the kids that the show is directed towards have not. They see what's going on now and accept it. Sure, the writers do take in to consideration the things that have happened before, but it looks like this was something they decided was forgotten, because the HoSo would have been the perfect time for them to refer back to Tech and the Bike Gang and clear everything up. But they didn't.

I don't see why the fact that their training/reunion has been referenced many times has anything to do with the way they first met. I'm not implying their Rocket training never happened! The three of them have met at the base and trained. That makes sense and it's a fact. However, I don't think we can assume J&J hadn't met before because of that child's question. That kid asked about all three of them, thus there is no contradition.

Then one could suppose Jessie and James didn't react much when they reunited because they didn't want to show they knew each others in front of their teacher.

That's a good point, but why would it matter to their instructor if they knew each other before? He introduced them to each other, and neither one of them looked surprised to see someone from their past. Throughout the episode, Musashi is contemplating whether or not she can trust Kojiro. If she knew him before, and they went through school and a gang together, why would she have trouble trusting him so much? The episode is about their meeting, and how they learned to trust one another (among many other things, of course, but in brief.) I haven't watched the episode in a long time, so I am a bit rusty on the details of it.

 

[Zayin]

You're right that something doesn't have to be referenced constantly to be true, but when something is referenced more than once, and is consistent, than it's accepted to be true for the canon. The Tech and Bike Gang were only referenced in their respective episodes, never to be spoken of again. Miyamoto doesn't exist in the anime, only on the CD drama that came out 10+ years ago. Musashi trying to become a nurse isn't really important in the big picture. It was referenced once later, so it's accepted as true.

The producers don't need to announce anything to make it official. The writers, story boarders, animators, etc etc decide how the show is going to go as it moves along. When an anime has been on for as long as Pokemon has, of course there are going to be inconsistencies, especially with staff coming and going.

The biggest thing that you're forgetting is the show's target audience. Yeah, we've been watching since Kanto, but the kids that the show is directed towards have not. They see what's going on now and accept it. Sure, the writers do take in to consideration the things that have happened before, but it looks like this was something they decided was forgotten, because the HoSo would have been the perfect time for them to refer back to Tech and the Bike Gang and clear everything up. But they didn't.

I really don't understand why you and the others are assuming the writers forgot about those past episodes since there is not even an indubitable contradiction in the Hoso one. What I mean is that unless Jessie or James explicitly say both of them met at the base, or that it's officially announced by the production crew, then the bike gang still stands. Plus to me, what happened happened and can't simply disappear into thin air, referenced or not. I even consider Miyamoto to be part of the anime since the CD referred to anime characters, but that's slightly off-topic.

I don't think that since the show is targeted towards kids then the first episodes become less credible. The staff members know some fans have been following the show from the very beginning. Plus, not taking the opportunity to refer to the bike gang in the Hoso episode doesn't mean they forgot about it. This episode was focusing on J&J's Rocket training days and the creation of their evil trio. No need to repeat some bike gang stuff we older ones already know about that young fans won't even understand.

That's a good point, but why would it matter to their instructor if they knew each other before? He introduced them to each other, and neither one of them looked surprised to see someone from their past. Throughout the episode, Musashi is contemplating whether or not she can trust Kojiro. If she knew him before, and they went through school and a gang together, why would she have trouble trusting him so much? The episode is about their meeting, and how they learned to trust one another (among many other things, of course, but in brief.) I haven't watched the episode in a long time, so I am a bit rusty on the details of it.

Well, I personally wouldn't want to start a fight with a guy I knew when I was a kid in front of our instructor. That'd be just awkward. This teacher dude doesn't need to know about their personal life. Just by looking at their expressions, I admit James didn't look surprised to see Jessie, but she did look weird. Maybe the teacher had talked to James about her before presenting them to each others, who knows? Anyway, I don't think that really matters because we know how Jessie and James react weirdly all the time. Just think of Jessie in DP117 when she leaves James and starts spinning xD.

Jessie might have had trouble trusting James because she didn't get the time to know him enough when they were kids/teens. Indeed, the two of them didn't need to rely on each other when they were part of a big bikers group, whereas it was essential in their newly formed Rocket team. There can be loads of reasons... (If you didn't know, they didn't even attend Pokemon tech, but failed the entrance exams. There had been a translation mistake.)

To sum up, I really can't conceive how part of the old episodes could still stand (Ash's first Pokemon is Pikachu, Jessiebelle is James' fiancee, etc, etc) while others turned out to be false. That just doesn't make any sense to me.


[Edit]
Yay next week's episode features:
ムサシ…林原めぐみ、コジロウ…三木眞一郎、ニャース…犬山イヌコ !!! *does a happy dance*