Rumour thread (SPOILERS - ALLEGED LEAKS)

[colours]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

It's not necessarily surprising to see Sylveon have such a high special defense, as that's a common trait shared with just about almost every eeveelution, as far as I know (not sure about Vaporeon, and Glaceon and Leafeon might be exceptions to this). A high speed is something that's pleasant to hear though, I was afraid it'd be slow. This means that at least it'd be fast enough to outspeed and KO the likes of anything that's probably not Latios. If it has a base 110 Speed, then that means that it at least Speed ties with Latios at worst, but it'd live its attacks, anyhow.

Quite interesting info, indeed. n_n

Actually Sylveon is pretty slow. Only 60/65 base Speed.

Oh, I see~! Not sure what I think about that though. It was...fairy below what I was expecting, if anything. .-.; But of course, speed isn't everything, so I'm waiting to see what other tricks it has up its sleeve.

That's good, I'd much prefer the 110 Sp. Att than 110 Speed.

In a sense, I kind of feel this way, too. As long as it hits hard, then I don't mind.

 

[LimitCrown]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Assuming that Sylveon is a perfect IVs zero EVs Pokémon with base 95 HP and neutral nature, what's the base Def that Sylveon needed for it to take only 41 HP of damage from a critical-hit Take Down from a 0 IVs 0 EVs Gabite with a random nature?

 

[Zeb]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Honestly, if 95/60/65/110/130/65 turns out to be the real base stats I'd actually be ok with it. Sure, the speed is disappointing, but at least Sylveon will be useful both attacking and defending specially.

 

[Scarftail]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Assuming that Sylveon is a perfect IVs zero EVs Pokémon with base 95 HP and neutral nature, what's the base Def that Sylveon needed for it to take only 41 HP of damage from a critical-hit Take Down from a 0 IVs 0 EVs Gabite with a random nature?

110. I find that odd because it looks so physically weak.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Assuming that Sylveon is a perfect IVs zero EVs Pokémon with base 95 HP and neutral nature, what's the base Def that Sylveon needed for it to take only 41 HP of damage from a critical-hit Take Down from a 0 IVs 0 EVs Gabite with a random nature?

110. I find that odd because it looks so physically weak.

Well, so does Umbreon and it has a 95/130 Defense spread.

Wait, so do we know for sure that there was a Critical Hit Take Down from a Gabite? If that's true then my prediction of Sylveon mirroring Umbreon might be true....which would be nice since Game Freak seems to be trying to contrast Fairy and Dark with the box legends.

and now they should covertly introduce a Dragon Eeveelution that mirrors Espeon's stats with 65/130/95/65/60/110 since Dragons in the later generations can be compared to Psychic becoming a prominent typing for Legendary....and then we have Umbreon being immune to Psychic and Sylveon being immune to Dragon

 

[Quetsol Melt]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Assuming that Sylveon is a perfect IVs zero EVs Pokémon with base 95 HP and neutral nature, what's the base Def that Sylveon needed for it to take only 41 HP of damage from a critical-hit Take Down from a 0 IVs 0 EVs Gabite with a random nature?

110. I find that odd because it looks so physically weak.

Never judge a book by its cover

 

[Scarftail]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Assuming that Sylveon is a perfect IVs zero EVs Pokémon with base 95 HP and neutral nature, what's the base Def that Sylveon needed for it to take only 41 HP of damage from a critical-hit Take Down from a 0 IVs 0 EVs Gabite with a random nature?

110. I find that odd because it looks so physically weak.

Well, so does Umbreon and it has a 95/130 Defense spread.

Wait, so do we know for sure that there was a Critical Hit Take Down from a Gabite? If that's true then my prediction of Sylveon mirroring Umbreon might be true....which would be nice since Game Freak seems to be trying to contrast Fairy and Dark with the box legends.

and now they should covertly introduce a Dragon Eeveelution that mirrors Espeon's stats with 65/130/95/65/60/110 since Dragons in the later generations can be compared to Psychic becoming a prominent typing for Legendary....and then we have Umbreon being immune to Psychic and Sylveon being immune to Dragon

Umbreon appears to have relatively thick skin. I completely agree with the idea of the Fairy/Dark contrast, because according to MageLeif, Fairy is super-effective against Dark. To me, Fairy should also be weak to Dark simply so that Xerneas and Yveltal can be balanced against each other. I don't see Game Freak wanting to portray Xerneas as superior to Yveltal. It's already an issue that only one mascot promotes the new type, but if Dark was the antithesis of Fairy, it would be understandable.

 

[LimitCrown]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

I wonder if they changed the base Damage of Take Down like they had with the HP-draining moves. What if instead of 90, it was 85 or 80?

 

[DarkS Umbreon]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Crits may only do 50% more damage instead of the 100% as previous - according to @Joshawott anyway.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Okay, so everyone's talking about how Sylveon must have 110 if it OHKO's Gabite with Fairy wind. What base power are you all assuming? I'd say Fairy wind is likely similar to Ominous wind with a base power of 60, which means its at 90 with STAB.

@LimitCrown;
Why do you assume Sylveon has max IV HP? If there is evidence for this then it is likely Max SAtk IV as well. Or that Gabite has 0 IVs?

I based my following calculations on the above assumptions (and my assumption that Sylveon has 65 base attack) using psypoke's calculator (since I am actually able to put in the SAtk values myself) using Umbreon as a place holder giving it Sylveon's SAtk stat at level 50 (85) and Gabite's SDef at level 50 (54) with Earthpower as a place holder for a STAB Fairy Wind assuming it has 60 base power (hence a 90 base power move).

It does 54-64 % damage. This would mean if you factor in that it's SE, Gabite would be OHKO.

Of course, if Gabite's IV's aren't 0, then it wouldn't OHKO under these assumptions.

Umbreon appears to have relatively thick skin.

How does it appear to have thick skin? It's about as bulky looking as Sylveon, both being the same size as well and having a lean body. The only difference is one is black and one is pink.

 

[LimitCrown]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

I wonder what the base power of Fairy Wind is. I guessed either 40 or 60 because the PP count was 30, but I'm not sure.

@The Outrage In the Pokémon Smash video confirming the Fairy-type, there was a level 50 Sylveon with 155 HP. In the English Demo, there was a level 30 Sylveon with 106 HP. A base HP stat of 95 would work for both at 0 IVs and EVs and 31 IVs and zero EVs, respectively.

At first, I mainly assumed that Fairy Wind dealt 40 base damage.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

@The Outrage In the Pokémon Smash video confirming the Fairy-type, there was a level 50 Sylveon with 155 HP. In the English Demo, there was a level 30 Sylveon with 106 HP. A base HP stat of 95 would work for both at 0 IVs and EVs and 31 IVs and zero EVs, respectively.

But what we need to know is, was the opposing Gabite who did the critical hit was against the 31 IV or 0 IV Sylveon. I don't think we can mix and match with the assumptions that Gabite had differing IV's than Sylveon....unless @Scarftail's calculations are accurate which would suggest a 31 IV Sylveon was up against a 0 IV Gabite.

 

[Zweilous]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Umbreon appears to have relatively thick skin. I completely agree with the idea of the Fairy/Dark contrast, because according to MageLeif, Fairy is super-effective against Dark. To me, Fairy should also be weak to Dark simply so that Xerneas and Yveltal can be balanced against each other. I don't see Game Freak wanting to portray Xerneas as superior to Yveltal. It's already an issue that only one mascot promotes the new type, but if Dark was the antithesis of Fairy, it would be understandable.

As much as I'd like for a balance, GF has never really cared for balancing out their legendaries. Kyogre and Dialga blatantly beat out their counterparts and Lugia gained moves to trump Ho-oh whereas the other didn't get anything in return. Zekrom and Reshiram are the only truly balanced ones and even then Reshiram got more tools on the benefit of being a more specially oriented Pokémon and having unresisted coverage. So unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if Yveltal got the short end of the stick in this deal.

 

[LimitCrown]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

That's what I said. The Sylveon in the English Demo had 31 IVs.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Can't someone who has plays the demo just view the Pokémon's status section in battle and see what the base power is? If it's at EuroGamer next month, I'll be sure to do that.

Crits may only do 50% more damage instead of the 100% as previous - according to @Joshawott anyway.

Just to elaborate: I heard that from a competitive battling friend of mine. I'm guessing the evidence came from one of the demo units.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Can't someone who has plays the demo just view the Pokémon's status section in battle and see what the base power is? If it's at EuroGamer next month, I'll be sure to do that.

Someone mentioned on here that the status screen was blanked out so we couldn't view the stats. Game Freak apparently knows we can do math and doesn't want us calculating the base stats.

 

[DarkS Umbreon]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

When's PAX Prime? I'm sure people attending that could try out new and exciting things for the benefit of the fandom.

 

[Scarftail]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

As much as I'd like for a balance, GF has never really cared for balancing out their legendaries. Kyogre and Dialga blatantly beat out their counterparts and Lugia gained moves to trump Ho-oh whereas the other didn't get anything in return. Zekrom and Reshiram are the only truly balanced ones and even then Reshiram got more tools on the benefit of being a more specially oriented Pokémon and having unresisted coverage. So unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if Yveltal got the short end of the stick in this deal.

With the exception of Kyogre and Groudon, there isn't a mascot duo in which one member is clearly and deliberately dominant over the other. Kyogre and Groudon's case more or less signifies how there is more water than land. Ho-Oh most certainly has super-effective moves to counter Lugia with, and neither have type disadvantages against each other. Plus, Lugia has very low attacking stats, so it can't really touch Ho-Oh with special moves, even when super-effective. I'd say they're quite balanced. As for Dialga, its advantage over Palkia wasn't really intentional; Game Freak simply wanted two dragons that had subtypes which reflected the game titles. In complete contrast, though, if Fairy both resists and deals super-effective damage against Dark, then Game Freak is giving a clear message that Xerneas triumphs over Yveltal, which wouldn’t be ideal for this specific duo. Life and death are very yin-yang-like concepts, so Fairy and Dark reflecting this relationship by being weak to each other would be fitting.

But what we need to know is, was the opposing Gabite who did the critical hit was against the 31 IV or 0 IV Sylveon. I don't think we can mix and match with the assumptions that Gabite had differing IV's than Sylveon....unless @Scarftail's calculations are accurate which would suggest a 31 IV Sylveon was up against a 0 IV Gabite.

Um, I did a damage calculation and set the Gabite at max IVs. A Lv30 Umbreon takes the same range of damage as the Lv30 Sylveon did (all of the Pokemon used in the demo had max IVs, so I assume the Gabite does as well), so based on that, it likely has the same Defense, unless they changed the damage formula as some have suggested.

Umbreon appears to have relatively thick skin.

How does it appear to have thick skin? It's about as bulky looking as Sylveon, both being the same size as well and having a lean body. The only difference is one is black and one is pink.

The ears, the tail, the neck, and the legs give me the impression that it has more 'meat' than Sylveon does. I can't see why Umbreon's defenses would be so high if its design doesn't actually represent those stats. Better put, why would Umbreon have the same Defense as Tyranitar if its body is supposedly thin and fragile? It has to have some characteristic that explains its high defenses.

 

[Zweilous]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

With the exception of Kyogre and Groudon, there isn't a mascot duo in which one member is clearly and deliberately dominant over the other. Kyogre and Groudon's case more or less signifies how there is more water than land. Ho-Oh most certainly has super-effective moves to counter Lugia with, and neither have type disadvantages against each other. Plus, Lugia has very low attacking stats, so it can't really touch Ho-Oh with special moves, even when super-effective. I'd say they're quite balanced. As for Dialga, its advantage over Palkia wasn't really intentional; Game Freak simply wanted two dragons that had subtypes which reflected the game titles. In complete contrast, though, if Fairy both resists and deals super-effective damage against Dark, then Game Freak is giving a clear message that Xerneas triumphs over Yveltal, which wouldn’t be ideal for this specific duo. Life and death are very yin-yang-like concepts, so Fairy and Dark reflecting this relationship by being weak to each other would be fitting.

Whether or not Kyogre/Groudon represent a concept that still doesn't negate the fact that one is at an immense disadvantage to the other and on top of that, the concept both represent are supposed to be equal as they're supposed to be engaged in a neverending fight. Same with Dialga and Palkia as time and space should be equal in concept. If they didn't care with those two groups, then there's nothing saying they will care with Yveltal and Xerneas, especially since Death as a concept that appears in traditional children stories is always played as "Evil" and thus can be on the losing side.

As for the GS duo, Ho-oh only learns Ancientpower naturally (and isn't nearly that useful) and Lugia has fantastic defensive stats and Multiscale, though I'll admit I overlooked Thunderbolt and Thunder for both in terms of TMs (though Lugia's still at a slight advantage as it benefits more in the rain and thus can use Thunder while Ho-oh would not dare go near it).

 

[Stratelier]

Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

Crits may only do 50% more damage instead of the 100% as previous - according to @Joshawott anyway.

In the exhibition match, Politoed did 50% critical damage to Sylveon. If this is the case, normal damage would be 33% and not 25%, which is more plausible considering Politoed had almost everything in its favor (STAB, held item, weather) when it used Hydro Pump.