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Rumours/Fakes/Leaks Discussion Thread

Do you like fakes/leaks season?

  • I love it!

    Votes: 227 52.2%
  • Yeah

    Votes: 81 18.6%
  • Doesn't bother me

    Votes: 76 17.5%
  • No

    Votes: 20 4.6%
  • Hate it.

    Votes: 31 7.1%

  • Total voters
    435

Captain Bubbles

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Zygarde is basically the Guardian of the Earth.

Anyway, guess we can call those three images of the owl, raccoon and wrestling fake. Because the Riddler clearly did not post it. If he/she did, then it would be on his/her site.
 
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Oh so they've already revealed what Zygarde and it's perfect/human form represents?? I guess I didn't even check, pardon me. I suppose I am more thinking Aether worked forever on the Ultra beasts, and they would perhaps equate to a terribly synthetic creation spliced with trainer DNA or science stuff. Their direct counterpart possibly Z-Forms, or naturally occurring synch due to an actual loving bond between trainer and PKMN. Zygarde in his final form just has me thinking that it has to be a Z-Form. I mean, even just superficially, Z Z Z Z. He will tie into everything associated with Z-Ring, Z-Moves, Z-Whatevers. Probably held back from release g the Z Version we all anticipated solely to prominently feature in SunMoon.
 

Shadao

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7088e0177f3e6709a766387133c79f3df9dc55ec.jpg


Riddler just post this picture and here what he said:

"I already mention this "Chinese/kanji" word a long time ago. After the Z-Rings announced, still no one linked it together, it's almost time of the announcement night, if I'm not mention it again, maybe nobody will remember its, what is the true meaning of this thing?"

I had my mother look at it and see what character it resemble. She came up with 仝.

Same, pronounced "tong", generally used as Chinese Family name

Sometimes means "all the people "(全体同仁)
 

TheMonster6893

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Oh so they've already revealed what Zygarde and it's perfect/human form represents?? I guess I didn't even check, pardon me. I suppose I am more thinking Aether worked forever on the Ultra beasts, and they would perhaps equate to a terribly synthetic creation spliced with trainer DNA or science stuff. Their direct counterpart possibly Z-Forms, or naturally occurring synch due to an actual loving bond between trainer and PKMN. Zygarde in his final form just has me thinking that it has to be a Z-Form. I mean, even just superficially, Z Z Z Z. He will tie into everything associated with Z-Ring, Z-Moves, Z-Whatevers. Probably held back from release g the Z Version we all anticipated solely to prominently feature in SunMoon.

I would say considering all that we know about Zygarde it most likely isn't connected to the Z forms. Zygarde complete comes about when all the Zygarde Cores and Cells unite into one. A certain amount of Cells and Cores will make any of the 3 Zygarde forms we have. Some making 10%, about half making 50%, and all of them making the Complete form. Also we've already seen the transformation in action between forms and it has nothing to do with the trainer. I'm sure we'll get more info on how the forms fully work, but for now it's based on both the number of Cells/Cores you have and the new ability that Zygarde has in S/M called Power Construct.
 
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Nice, thanks for clearing that up. Wishiwashi on steroids to a degree. I still think it will tie in someway, even if it is just the technology available in Z-Band or Synchro or Synthetic UB being based upon the study of Zygardes uniqueness.

Also, way off subject, but I read somewhere of supposed evo line for Jangmo'O being Dragon/Steel. Any validity to that? Because I'm looking at the design now saying 'Oh duh. Ankylosaurus.' Makes sense. Any rumor of a final form similar to that being leaked??
 

Velvet

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Wait sorry.... trying to get up to speed right now. So are we getting information tomorrow AND on the 4th with a possible demo?
 

Absolaero

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I had my mother look at it and see what character it resemble. She came up with 仝.
For me it resembles the word 全 it means "everything". Probably related to Z moves or Z forms, because they released every bits of its power, like how its translated in Japanese ゼンリョク
 

Esserise

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No Zygarde is the Serpent of Order in the Tree of Life myth. Its also classified as the ''Order Pokemon'' so its not an Ultra Beast

I really hate to kick this up again but the Norse mythology thing in connection to the Kalos mascots is a very problem-ridden theory. Firstly I don't know whether you're referring to Nidhogg or Jormungand when you say "Serpent of Order" because I've never seen that title ascribed to either of them. Regardless, Zygarde is a weak parallel for Nidhogg, because Nidhogg is a destructive entity that eats the roots of Yggdrasil and harms it by doing so, whereas Zygarde is all about protecting the environment. Jormungand, while not being associated with the Tree of Life (as far as I know), makes a bit more sense as it is considered the "Midgard Serpent," and indeed, Zygarde is a (sometimes) serpentine protector of Earth (though I don't think Jormungand is much of a protector?). And Jormungand is an ouroboros (a snake that eats its own tail), which is a symbol of cyclicality (i.e., the cycle of life and death between Xerneas and Yveltal, though it should perhaps be noted that Zygarde has never been depicted as eating its own tail, which is a fundamental trait of an ouroboros - which in turn means that the only major similarity between the two is that they both happen to be snakes that are associated with cycles). I'll even admit that reimagining the "serpent coiled around the world" as being divided into countless Cells throughout the world's ecosystems would be a very clever interpretation.

However, Xerneas and Yveltal lack any strong Norse connections, with the ones that have been proposed - the creatures that inhabit the Tree of Life, like Nidhogg - being very loose at best. The stags of Yggdrasil actively harm it, which doesn't make sense for the life-granting Xerneas, and the birds that Yveltal supposedly references don't really have anything to do with death. And there is no squirrel. And without Zygarde there to at least compare to Nidhogg, the whole thing just kind of falls apart.

As @Evil Figment said a long while back, it makes more sense for Xerneas and Yveltal to be based on the Celtic (and therefore more relevant to a French region) Cernunnos, a horned life/fertility deity with a phonetically similar name to Xerneas, and the Morrigan, a death goddess who takes the form of a crow and flies over battlefields (as one of the in-game legends about Yveltal suggests it did during the ancient Kalos war). But assuming these to be true, it don't think it makes much sense for Zygarde to then go and be based on a random figure from Norse mythology. Zygarde could be independent from Xerneas/Yveltal, but if they were going to do something with Norse mythology, I would expect it to be a) much more fleshed out and obvious, and b) based on like, Thor or someone, not just Jormungand out of the blue.

What *I* think happened is that they just needed animals that resembled the letters X, Y, and Z. Given that criteria, it wouldn't have been hard to arrive at a stag, a bird, and a snake, especially so for the former two since stags and birds are very frequently used as symbols of life and death, respectively. And Zygarde can be as contrived as it needs to be since now we know that its Z-like appearance was basically just a red herring. Its true form is clearly a (French) humanoid monarch. If there even is any thematic depth to its other two forms, then my guesses are that they are meant to resemble a cobra (as in a "king" cobra; the large protrusions on 50% Forme's upper body create a similarly pronounced and imposing silhouette) and a guard dog (which are used as enforcers, thereby maintaining order).

As for Zygarde being an Ultra Beast, it's hard to say. The current indication is that Ultra Beasts are not Pokémon, but we don't know that for certain. And while it is true that "scientists" aren't sure whether Zygarde's Cores and Cells should be recognized as Pokémon, its higher Formes still are, unambiguously. Although if anything, I would expect Zygarde to be opposing the Ultra Beasts, since they are said to pose a threat to humans and Pokémon, and Zygarde believes itself to be a protector of the ecosystem that is inhabited by humans and Pokémon.
 
Last edited:

GrimmSceptile

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I really hate to kick this up again but the Norse mythology thing in connection to the Kalos mascots is a very problem-ridden theory. Firstly I don't know whether you're referring to Nidhogg or Jormungand when you say "Serpent of Order" because I've never seen that title ascribed to either of them. Regardless, Zygarde is a weak parallel for Nidhogg, because Nidhogg is a destructive entity that eats the roots of Yggdrasil and harms it by doing so, whereas Zygarde is all about protecting the environment. Jormungand, while not being associated with the Tree of Life (as far as I know), makes a bit more sense as it is considered the "Midgard Serpent," and indeed, Zygarde is a (sometimes) serpentine protector of Earth (though I don't think Jormungand is much of a protector?). And Jormungand is an ouroboros (a snake that eats its own tail), which is a symbol of cyclicality (i.e., the cycle of life and death between Xerneas and Yveltal, though it should perhaps be noted that Zygarde has never been depicted as eating its own tail, which is a fundamental trait of an ouroboros - which in turn means that the only major similarity between the two is that they both happen to be snakes that are associated with cycles). I'll even admit that reimagining the "serpent coiled around the world" as being divided into countless Cells throughout the world's ecosystems would be a very clever interpretation.

However, Xerneas and Yveltal lack any strong Norse connections, with the ones that have been proposed - the creatures that inhabit the Tree of Life, like Nidhogg - being very loose at best. the stags of Yggdrasil actively harm it, which doesn't make sense for the life-granting Xerneas, and the birds that Yveltal supposedly references don't really have anything to do with death. And there is no squirrel. And without Zygarde there to at least compare the Nidhogg, the whole thing just kind of falls apart.

As @Evil Figment said a long while back, it makes more sense for Xerneas and Yveltal to be based on the Celtic (and therefore more relevant to a French region) Cernunnos, a horned life/fertility deity with a phonetically similar name to Xerneas, and the Morrigan, a death goddess who takes the form of a crow and flies over battlefields (as one of the in-game legends about Yveltal suggests it did during the ancient Kalos war). But assuming these to be true, it don't think it makes much sense for Zygarde to then go and be based on a random figure from Norse mythology. Zygarde could be independent from Xerneas/Yveltal, but if they were going to do something with Norse mythology, I would expect it to be a) much more fleshed out and obvious, and b) based on like, Thor or someone, not just Jormungand out of the blue.

What *I* think happened is that they just needed animals that resembled the letters X, Y, and Z. Given that criteria, it wouldn't have been hard to arrive at a stag, a bird, and a snake, especially so for the former two since stags and birds are very frequently used as symbols of life and death, respectively. And Zygarde can be as contrived as it needs to be since now we know that its Z-like appearance was basically just a red herring. Its true form is clearly a (French) humanoid monarch. If there even is any thematic depth to its other two forms, then my guesses are that they are meant to resemble a cobra (as in a "king" cobra; the large protrusions on 50% Forme's upper body create a similarly pronounced and imposing silhouette) and a guard dog (which are used as enforcers, thereby maintaining order).

As for Zygarde being an Ultra Beast, it's hard to say. The current indication is that Ultra Beasts are not Pokémon, but we don't know that for certain. And while it is true that "scientists" aren't sure whether Zygarde's Cores and Cells should be recognized as Pokémon, its higher Formes still are, unambiguously. Although if anything, I would expect Zygarde to be opposing the Ultra Beasts, since they are said to pose a threat to humans and Pokémon, and Zygarde believes itself to be a protector of the ecosystem that is inhabited by humans and Pokémon.
Their (Zygare, Xerneas, Yveltal) inspiration is drawn from Norse mythology, but their roles closely resemble that of the three Hindu gods. But its like 01:30 here and I'm drained so I'll explain it later if you still want to
 

whitetempest521

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Its true form is clearly a (French) humanoid monarch. If there even is any thematic depth to its other two forms, then my guesses are that they are meant to resemble a cobra (as in a "king" cobra; the large protrusions on 50% Forme's upper body create a similarly pronounced and imposing silhouette) and a guard dog (which are used as enforcers, thereby maintaining order).

While you may be right about Xerneas and Yveltal, I honestly believe Zygarde's 3 forms are inspired Fenrir, Jörmungandr, and Hel. "Dog, snake, giant" really feel out of place otherwise. But honestly I think the problem is trying to 1:1 any of this. It seems far more likely to me that all 3 are an amalgam of a variety of ideas... Zygarde's complete form might be a combination of Hel and French royalty, and as GrimmSceptile says there may be even further ideas thrown into the mix.

I think its fairly obvious Zygarde has a variety of things influencing its design.
 

Captain Bubbles

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If there is a trailer later today, maybe it'll reveal the Z-Forms just to mess with everyone? :p
 
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