Review S25 EP43: The Road Most Traveled!

[Charmander4]

it's possible he was asked but turned it down. Apparently when he joined BW to voice Cedric Juniper he asked to voice Oak but was told "no" which makes sense as Oak was voiced by JCC, so maybe that could have something to do with it.

Let’s not be naive here. We know TPCI wasn’t bothered to ask him.

 

[PokeFanForever1]

Bill Rogers went on and flat out said lies about the 4Kids actors and their contracts or said they quit when that didn’t happen.

Catcart or Zoppi or whatever his name is, disparages Eric Stuart and Maddie Blaustien all the time. Michelle’s Knotz has had reprehensible conduct especially toward Rachael Lillis.

I have zero sympathy for them and their careers. They all need to be fired and experience what happened to the other actors. This is the time to correct a wrong and put Eric Stuart and Stuart Zagnit (and the others)back in roles they were unjustly fired for. In a perfect world, Veronica Taylor should be celebrated with the victory lap like Rica Matsumoto is. Instead we get reporters who know nothing from NPR interviewing Natchocheesy and acting like she was there from the beginning while posting photos of Ash in his OS outfit. Ridiculous and disgusting.

TPCI continues to act like scum and put out a garbage product. Par the course.

Sorry but that's just incredibly toxic. Also while Sarah wasn't the original voice she has done it for longer and has really become an icon in many people's eyes, she deserves JUST as much respect as Veronica does.

 

[PokeFanForever1]

And to top it off both Zagnit and Cathcart are good friends with each other as well so there's that too.

oh really? I didn't know that, that's awesome!

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

Anybody know where I can watch this episode? Any help would be appreciated!

Sorry but that's just incredibly toxic. Also while Sarah wasn't the original voice she has done it for longer and has really become an icon in many people's eyes, she deserves JUST as much respect as Veronica does.

Eh. If you ask me, Veronica will always be the better Ash voice. Sarah wasn't too bad for the first couple of years or so as Ash, but the quality of her performance as him seemed to dimnish with time. (Maybe she voiced Ash for too long.....) At least that's what I think.

 

[snowmint]

I wonder if she will still show up for the dub in horizons? Veronica getting booted off the show allowed her to be a part of a lot of famous io franchises without being stuck voicing Ash in NY.

 

[Poke Trey]

I still think the current cast is really good and that our replacements, good bless em! Lord knows how the Horizons dub va's will be like. Hopefully, none of them deal with any online scrutiny nor physical illnesses like Cathcart.

 

[BigDocFan]

Watching the episode, I can definitely hear a difference with Oak, James and Meowth, the new actor for Meowth doesn't do too bad a job sounding like Cathcart

 

[PokeFanForever1]

Anybody know where I can watch this episode? Any help would be appreciated!

Eh. If you ask me, Veronica will always be the better Ash voice. Sarah wasn't too bad for the first couple of years or so as Ash, but the quality of her performance as him seemed to dimnish with time. (Maybe she voiced Ash for too long.....) At least that's what I think.

I think she's gotten better and better with time. She sounded pretty rough early on due to being told to imitate Veronica but once she was given more freedom to give her own voice to the character she really started to shine and she's never sounded better than she does in the current episodes imo.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I think she's gotten better and better with time. She sounded pretty rough early on due to being told to imitate Veronica but once she was given more freedom to give her own voice to the character she really started to shine and she's never sounded better than she does in the current episodes imo.

Ehh.......if you ask me, she was better when she was imitating Veronica. And that's just your opinion anyway saying she's never sounded better than she does right now. You and I simply have differing opnions on the matter. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[kantoskies]

For some reason when I'd heard that James Carter Cathcart was stepping down from voice acting, I'd assumed he had already recorded all his stuff for the dub. Perhaps I thought the dub production was further along, and with only a dozen or so episodes left that he powered through to finish off his work as James, Meowth, etc.-- but clearly I was wrong. I had also for some reason thought the dialogue, particularly Team Rocket's, would improve without him in the writer's chair but I was also clearly wrong there.

James' voice actor is fine, I guess, but hot damn Meowth's voice is rough. It's amazing how the voice has changed throughout the years in the English dub over four voice actors. Perhaps since the dub producers know we only have a handful of episodes with these characters left they just found a quick soundalike for the roles instead of finding someone good- in a way that kind of brings TPCI's dub full-circle.

It's been a hot second since I've seen the dub and it really is disappointing that it's still so bad. The music is still awful, the dialogue is still awful, the line delivery is still awful...I legit could only stand to watch a few minutes before turning it off. I'm probably going to peak at a few episodes here and there to see how they handle certain parts of this arc, but I've long-since given up on watching the dub in full (I think the XY series finally killed the dub for me). Here's hoping the Horizons dub is actually good...

 

[snowmint]

The fact they are removing nostalgic music that was kept earlier in the dub is so sad.

 

[snowmint]

I take it most of the nostalgic kanto johto BGM was removed again? Smh Goldfarb if its true.

 

[snowmint]

Nobody from the 4Kids cast has said anything nice about him. At a con, Veronica Taylor was asked “what would you say to the voice of Gary” and she looked uncomfortable and bit her tongue.

He burned bridges. There’s a reason why he only does Pokémon.

Even the current yugioh dubbers didn't let him reprise lunis and weevil recently.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Even the current yugioh dubbers didn't let him reprise lunis and weevil recently.

To be fair to JCC, just like TPCi continues to have an obvious chip on their shoulder clearly when it comes to Taylor, Stuart, Lillis, etc. and I have no idea why they got rid of Loeffler and Wolfert since Goldfarb is universally panned by 90% of the fandom for his (IMO, fairly dreadful) music as well as TPCi replacing more of the OST than 4Kids ever did from 2013 onward via Gopal from XY to JN...Konami/4K also has a beef/chip on their shoulder with JCC for the Pokemon recasting controversy so Darren Dunstan couldn't bring him back (he wanted to, they said no, much like TPCi said no to Zagnit/Hart when he wanted to voice Oak again mid BW).

I wish they had found a solution back then as TPCi could've easily bought out 4Kids VAs if it were really contracts (wasn't even that technically as they weren't asked if they wanted to break them period) and chose to recast to cut costs/save money back then: would've been nice to see the original team continue on, but life's unfair sadly.

FWIW, Eric Stuart is nowadays just grateful and appreciative he got to be on the dub for those first 8 years and is proud of what the original 4Kids dub cast created overall here, he was as bitter as I was about it in those days but has generally come to terms with it in that way. Veronica has also generally gotten past it, but still loves Ash dearly (Eric has said Brock, James, and Kaiba were/are like his children in a recent interview in fact). Rachael Lillis, similar, wish she like Eric would come back to the VA scene more though as Hunter x Hunter is all she's recently done.

For some reason when I'd heard that James Carter Cathcart was stepping down from voice acting, I'd assumed he had already recorded all his stuff for the dub. Perhaps I thought the dub production was further along, and with only a dozen or so episodes left that he powered through to finish off his work as James, Meowth, etc.-- but clearly I was wrong. I had also for some reason thought the dialogue, particularly Team Rocket's, would improve without him in the writer's chair but I was also clearly wrong there.

James' voice actor is fine, I guess, but hot damn Meowth's voice is rough. It's amazing how the voice has changed throughout the years in the English dub over four voice actors. Perhaps since the dub producers know we only have a handful of episodes with these characters left they just found a quick soundalike for the roles instead of finding someone good- in a way that kind of brings TPCI's dub full-circle.

It's been a hot second since I've seen the dub and it really is disappointing that it's still so bad. The music is still awful, the dialogue is still awful, the line delivery is still awful...I legit could only stand to watch a few minutes before turning it off. I'm probably going to peak at a few episodes here and there to see how they handle certain parts of this arc, but I've long-since given up on watching the dub in full (I think the XY series finally killed the dub for me). Here's hoping the Horizons dub is actually good...

James sounds like he did in the DP dub with Roger Callagy (if it's him, or Barrett Leddy, idk who), a bit too goofy and nasal, but a lot better than he has since 2014 in English (I'd rank him below Eric & James in AG/BF respectively and tie him with DP JCC James, but above JCC from XY-JN personally). It's subpar, but I don't outright hate it like JCC, there's potential there. Meowth, agree, do like that Billy Bob Thompson got rid of JCC's raspy Meowth tone though.

The acting still seems underwhelming to me, too, honestly JN probably has my least favorite dub of all the Series (even XY/SM was slightly better, despite being Goldfarb'd, but I only saw a little of each like JN since it was too painful for me to sit through for more than a few minutes). XY was when most gave up on the dub, I personally wanted to give up in DP but there weren't fansubs for all those episodes available then so I had to wait until BW when they became readily available (S1 of BW was by far the best of the current dub, IMO).

 

[Charmander4]

I take it most of the nostalgic kanto johto BGM was removed again? Smh Goldfarb if its true.

Anybody that bashed 4Kids for things like rice balls/jelly donuts -


WYA.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Anybody that bashed 4Kids for things like rice balls/jelly donuts -


WYA.

TPCi also called them jelly donuts in their Movie 22 dub, too, I find it hypocritical people use stupid stuff like that to dismiss the 4Kids dub as well given this.

4Kids did even call them rice balls sometimes, the jelly donuts/sandwich stuff was indeed dumb sure, but it didn't affect the actual quality of things to me either.

TPCi has been replacing more of the OST than 4Kids ever did since Season 16 (last season of BW), Season 17 (XY) to 25 (JN) are the objective worst about music changes in volume & amount (pretty worried eventually the dub will go to full dub score at the rate things are going). TPCi also gave us the first 100% dub scored episodes in the Series in SM, from what the person who makes the list said (DeltaForces?), thank God I stopped watching the dub ages ago overall.

People don't often realize the 4Kids dub had more merits besides the openings/intro themes (agree they were superior) and the voice cast/acting (also agree, genuinely better, not nostalgia) over the TPCi dub, and keeping more of the OST is one of them: they treated Pokemon way better than all other Series they had Anime wise, for a fact.

 

[snowmint]

I guess the "jokes" in the 4kids dub was better.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

I guess the "jokes" in the 4kids dub was better.

I liked their dialogue more, too, but they shockingly kept more of Shinji Miyazaki's OST in the original 4Kids dub than TPCi did in the current dub (I know, insanity, considering 4Kids was known for not keeping the OST in every other dub they handled except Dinosaur King & GoGoRiki, but true).

Shaman King and Yu-Gi-Oh's dubs are objectively worse than how they handled Pokemon due to not keeping a trace of the OST, Pokemon's dub I suspect they made an agreement to do so- but whatever the case, 4Kids' best work on Anime was this Series bar none (TMNT 2003 and Pokemon at least vindicate the company's existence back then, no matter how much garbage they may had put out otherwise-- though I did like the VA work on the former two, neither aged well, the 2021 Shaman King dub has all the original dub VA save Arcelus etc. working with much more faithful dialogue & the OST, for example).

 

[Cookiefication]

I liked their dialogue more, too, but they shockingly kept more of Shinji Miyazaki's OST in the original 4Kids dub than TPCi did in the current dub (I know, insanity, considering 4Kids was known for not keeping the OST in every other dub they handled except Dinosaur King & GoGoRiki, but true).

....*Until Johto/AG, that is

Not to turn this into a music thread, but from this thread that used to keep track of raw BGM numbers:

Season Averages:
Season 1 (Episodes 1-17, 19-34, 36-37, 41-50, 52-53, 55-59): 72%
Season 2 (Episodes 18, 39-40, 51, 54, 60-107): 68%
Season 3 (Episodes 108-159): 70%
Season 4 (Episodes 160-211): 37%
Season 5 (Episodes 212-251, 253-264): 32%
Season 6 (Episodes 265-276, AG 001-040): 29%
Season 7 (Episodes AG 041-092): 26%
Season 8 (Episodes AG 93-100, 102-120, 122-146): 19%
Season 9 (Episodes AG 147-193): 27%
Season 10 (Episodes DP 001-47, 49-52): 35%
Season 11 (Episodes DP 53-104): 46%
Season 12 (Episodes DP 105-119, 121-157): 46%
Season 13 (Episodes DP 158-191): 38%

TPCi actually went back on the rise, before very steeply dropping with BW S2 and XY onward, which is a shame.

While they were never fully consistent, what I did appreciate about TPCi in AG and DP is that they would keep pieces that were never heard in the 4Kids dub. They also (although again, never consistently) would at least keep some of the "big" pieces of an episode, even if they removed 90% of the rest of the music. (Ex: random Froslass filler in DP that kept like... two pieces of music total, but one of them was at least Chiisaki Mono at the end). In some ways, I think that's a bigger deal- along with silence/no BGM, but that's a different deal

I've barely watched anything dub since XY ended, but from what I gathered there's like 0% chance of anything like the above happening these days

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

....*Until Johto/AG, that is

Not to turn this into a music thread, but from this thread that used to keep track of raw BGM numbers:



TPCi actually went back on the rise, before very steeply dropping with BW S2 and XY onward, which is a shame.

While they were never fully consistent, what I did appreciate about TPCi in AG and DP is that they would keep pieces that were never heard in the 4Kids dub. They also (although again, never consistently) would at least keep some of the "big" pieces of an episode, even if they removed 90% of the rest of the music. (Ex: random Froslass filler in DP that kept like... two pieces of music total, but one of them was at least Chiisaki Mono at the end). In some ways, I think that's a bigger deal- along with silence/no BGM, but that's a different deal

I've barely watched anything dub since XY ended, but from what I gathered there's like 0% chance of anything like the above happening these days

You'll notice 4Kids never hit the lows TPCi has in XY, SM, or JN in either Johto or AG though, to be fair.

And we actually have some revisions on that list, not much changed, but 4Kids kept a little more in certain places and less in others than people thought (early Season 1 has THE most overrated dub of the OG era, IMO, the first episode only kept 2/17 pieces it turns out- Dogasu lied on that one, just the opening theme when Ash poses and Tears after the Cloudy Weather & that was it).

Pokemon English Dub Over the Years: How Much Japanese Music was Kept in Main Series, Opening Theme Opinions, Etc. for the updated list, still needs more updates (I don't want to watch TPCi's SM dub, DeltaForcesX or someone had new lists, we even got 0/xx'd which never happened under 4Kids in the main Series supposedly in SM Season 3).

It was around mid Kanto that 4Kids began to keep tons of OST, and it lasted through the end of early Johto, to clarify.

I'll happily elaborate to keep you up to speed basically on what's happened since XY, it has been godawful.

The Pokémon dub was still bearable/watchable the whole way through those 8 years, IMO-- even though they like TPCi, got more music change happy come mid Johto as well in the Anime, but NEVER as bad as TPCi was the last decade on this.

And to their credit, 4Kids kept 0% of the OST in Movies 1 & 3, and only 6.1% in Movie 2 (both are TR motto instances) so the first 3 Movies were pretty rough save Movie 3's good script, but kept almost all to even 100% in Movies 4-8 in mid Johto through the end of their dub in AG & the Pikachu Shorts.

I find the Movies & Pikachu Short dubs redeem the 4Kids dub in the later portion and stand out, naturally, the VAs even put out their best work there vs the Anime.

Going to add TPCi kept less of the OST in Battle Frontier on average, than 4Kids in all of late Johto and most of AG, only more than Season 8.

Season 1 of DP, also only kept as much as 4Kids basically in late Johto, not even mid Johto as well. I found the DP dub super overrated because the VA & writing are SUCH a step down from even AG to me, but the music was in the middle back then. I agree early TPCi was more defensible than current TPCi, which is by far the worst IMO.

It was when DuArt took over that TPCi began to handle music better than late 4Kids & late TAJ (which were on par with each other, the anti-4Kids brigade back then wanted to find any excuse to slam them just for being 4Kids rather than evaluating their Pokemon dub on its individual merits-- stands out in a big way when you do, but TPCi only kept the same basically in amount as them on average in S9-10).

But DuArt back in Season 15 of BW, took the same path as 4Kids in Season 4, Season 16 kept only as much OST as Season 8 in AG, and...

Seasons 17-25 are 19% and below the very worst of 4Kids, S22 was at 8.9% supposedly by then (it's incomplete but someone else finished it, Flynn might have the stats), and JN has been the absolute worst musically (Goldfarb showing up and Loeffler being canned was THE worst thing to happen to the Pokemon dub since TPCi got rid of 4Kids' VAs and writers in late AG in XY, to me).

Basically, XY, SM & JN are the worst, the only good thing about the modern TPCi dub is now people have grown to appreciate what 4Kids did in mid Johto-AG in the Anime & TPCi in BF & early DP as at least having merit musically vs the Goldfarb-Gopal Era and listenable.

Johto Season 1 also kept the second most OST in the 4Kids dub of the main Anime, trivia, in the main Anime.

Summary on percentage of original Japanese BGM/OST kept in the Anime dub only (the Movies & Pikachu Shorts are the opposite for the 4Kids Era, TPCi Era has 4 dub scored Movies to 4Kids' first three, M17-20):

S1: 73.3%
S2: 68%
S3: 72%
S4: 37%
S5: 33%
S6: 30%
S7: 27%
S8: 20%
S9: 26%
S10: 34.3%
S11: 44.9%
S12: 47.0%
S13: 38.3%
S14: 92%
S15: 36%
S16: 20%
S17: 19%
S18: 17%
S19: 15%
S20: 15.1%
S21: 9.6% (Incomplete), 8.9% (DeltaForcesX/Flynn Might Have It)
S22+: <8% (Not a joke)

Basically, objectively speaking, overall:

Early 4Kids/TAJ > Early TPCi/DuArt > Later 4Kids = Later PUSA/TAJ > Later TPCi/DuArt >>>> TPCi w/SDI Media/Iyuno

The best average was the first 3 years, when 4Kids & TAJ worked together (both companies died out, tragic ends & sad honestly, given how well they started out), on OST kept in the Pokemon Anime dub for sure.

The worst average is modern TPCi from 2014-2023 aka XY-JN, the last 10 years of the modern TPCi dub first with Later DuArt and then based in LA w/SDI Media Iyuno Group.