Review S25 EP47: A Squad's Worth of Passion!

[RetroPokeFan]

This week's dub episode featuring the return of Squirtle and the Squirtle Squad has aired on Cartoon Network in Canada.

Please keep all spoilers in spoiler tags.

Voice Characterization -

Sarah Natochenny
Michele Knotz
James Carter Cathcart
Cherami Leigh
Rodger Parsons

Additional Voices -

Edward Bosco
Roger Callagy (Rob Morrison)
Jason Griffith
Megan Hollingshead
Emily Jenness (Emily Bauer)
Lisa Ortiz
Lori Phillips (Lori Gardner Phillips)
Bill Rogers
Erica Schroeder
Billy Bob Thompson
Marc Thompson
Jenny Yokobori

 

[snowmint]

How disappointing was it?

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

Goldfarb's terrible musical score strikes again. Seriously, I'm listened to a lot of orchestral/instrumental music in my life, and he has got to be just.......one of the worst composers I've ever heard. Like, his score doesn't flow well at all anymore. Maybe it did at one time, like In the XY series it was tolerable at least, but now it's just.......groan-inducingly bad. Like, it's just the same boring notes repeated over and over. And of course they had to insert that garbage into the ending of this episode instead of using the much better track that was used in the original, which was this:


Pokemon deserves a better English dub score than what we're getting as of late. Say what you will about 4Kids, but their dub tracks were astronomically better than the crap we're getting nowadays.

 

[PokeFanForever1]

How disappointing was it?

pretty decent actually!

 

[PokeFanForever1]

Goldfarb's terrible musical score strikes again. Seriously, I'm listened to a lot of orchestral/instrumental music in my life, and he has got to be just.......one of the worst composers I've ever heard. Like, his score doesn't flow well at all anymore. Maybe it did at one time, like In the XY series it was tolerable at least, but now it's just.......groan-inducingly bad. Like, it's just the same boring notes repeated over and over. And of course they had to insert that garbage into the ending of this episode instead of using the much better track that was used in the original, which was this:


Pokemon deserves a better English dub score than what we're getting as of late. Say what you will about 4Kids, but their dub tracks were astronomically better than the crap we're getting nowadays.

I think the music was fine in this episode tbh, none of the placements bothered me at all really.

 

[PokeFanForever1]

This week's dub episode featuring the return of Squirtle and the Squirtle Squad has aired on Cartoon Network in Canada.

Please keep all spoilers in spoiler tags.

Voice Characterization -

Sarah Natochenny
Michele Knotz
James Carter Cathcart
Cherami Leigh
Rodger Parsons

Additional Voices -

Edward Bosco
Roger Callagy (Rob Morrison)
Jason Griffith
Megan Hollingshead
Emily Jenness (Emily Bauer)
Lisa Ortiz
Lori Phillips (Lori Gardner Phillips)
Bill Rogers
Erica Schroeder
Billy Bob Thompson
Marc Thompson
Jenny Yokobori

I wonder who Cherami Leigh voiced in this episode. Watching it I don't really know this time, maybe one of the kids? Not sure but really cool she's still getting roles!

 

[PokeFanForever1]

Brock's "I wanna be your very best" was hilarious! He even said it to the tune of the Pokemon theme. Love that!

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Goldfarb's terrible musical score strikes again. Seriously, I'm listened to a lot of orchestral/instrumental music in my life, and he has got to be just.......one of the worst composers I've ever heard. Like, his score doesn't flow well at all anymore. Maybe it did at one time, like In the XY series it was tolerable at least, but now it's just.......groan-inducingly bad. Like, it's just the same boring notes repeated over and over. And of course they had to insert that garbage into the ending of this episode instead of using the much better track that was used in the original, which was this:


Pokemon deserves a better English dub score than what we're getting as of late. Say what you will about 4Kids, but their dub tracks were astronomically better than the crap we're getting nowadays.

I agree, but I had always thought 4Kids' dub scores were better and I was glad TAJ kept them for the first 2 years of TPCi's dub in the Transition Era (TAJ/PUSA literally just aped 4Kids without either the original voice over talent pool or script writing staff save James Cathcart & Kayzie Rogers who remained but at the cost of blacklisting-- which lends genuine credence to the theory it was done to cut costs at the time altogether + reduce production values) to make more influx of cash in-house: even then it was painfully obvious to even a boy at the time like me, how serious the quality drop was back then.

The dub scores even in Seasons 1-10 (I pretty much combined the late 4Kids era and late TAJ era with the earlier 4Kids/TAJ duo Era of the dub music scores as the first decade the dub music was the same with a little variation in AG Season 8 under 4Kids, TAJ in Season 9 + early DP 10 odd number eps. here and there, but same exact stuff since EP001 through DP052 otherwise) are very different, from Seasons 11-16 when Loeffler returned, and as you've said Ed Goldfarb's scores have even changed over time-- never liked them, and I thought XY was when the dub became outright garbage for me, but in hindsight his best work was still in Seasons 17-19 when compared to 20-25 (though even by then, TPCi was replacing more of the OST than the dub had ever done prior, not even in AG or late BW did it get even close to as bad as it did from then onward to the present day).

Anyway, I think even they aren't stupid enough to replace Ash's Charizard's voice yet, good they didn't.

 

[PokeFanForever1]

I agree, but I had always thought 4Kids' dub scores were better and I was glad TAJ kept them for the first 2 years of TPCi's dub in the Transition Era (TAJ/PUSA literally just aped 4Kids without either the original voice over talent pool or script writing staff save James Cathcart & Kayzie Rogers who remained but at the cost of blacklisting which lends genuine credence to the theory it was done to cut costs at the time altogether + reduce production values to make more influx of cash in-house: even then it was painfully obvious to even a boy at the time like me, how serious the quality drop was back then.

The dub scores even in Seasons 1-10 (I pretty much combined the late 4Kids era and late TAJ era with the earlier 4Kids/TAJ duo Era of the dub music scores as the first decade the dub music was the same with a little variation in AG Season 8 under 4Kids, TAJ in Season 9 + early DP 10 odd number eps. here and there, but same exact stuff since EP001 through DP052 otherwise) are very different, from Seasons 11-16 when Loeffler returned, and as you've said Ed Goldfarb's scores have even changed over time-- never liked them, and I thought XY was when the dub became outright garbage for me, but in hindsight his best work was still in Seasons 17-19 when compared to 20-25 (though even by then, TPCi was replacing more of the OST than the dub had ever done prior, not even in AG or late BW did it get even close to as bad as it did from then onward to the present day).

Anyway, I think even they aren't stupid enough to replace Ash's Charizard's voice yet, good they didn't.

while most of 4kids' dub music was scrapped after Season 10, they did keep one of them and that was the Pokedex theme which they were still using as late as Season 13, which did surprise me!

And when it comes to Goldfarb I'll always give him credit where it's due, there are some tracks of his that I do genuinely really like. One of my faves is funnily enough from XY and that's "Espurr's House" which is a beautiful track.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

while most of 4kids' dub music was scrapped after Season 10, they did keep one of them and that was the Pokedex theme which they were still using as late as Season 13, which did surprise me!

And when it comes to Goldfarb I'll always give him credit where it's due, there are some tracks of his that I do genuinely really like. One of my faves is funnily enough from XY and that's "Espurr's House" which is a beautiful track.

Correct, I'm aware of that as well: somehow that's the very last cue that TPCi kept from 4Kids' tenure, to the end of DP.

No comment on his score, but I'm glad you enjoyed it! Not going to comment on the VA or music save the OST tracks kept (only reason I glance at it in one go, once we find out who the new James, Meowth, and Prof. Oak are I'll be stopping but I suspect Roger Callagy/Rob Morrison, Edward Bosco & Mick Wingert so far respectively for that triad)-- save for one thing which I found odd-- as I'd be beating a dead horse there on what I think there regarding that.

However, I will comment on the script writing this go round.

SDAs (Stupid dialogue) this dub ep, a shame since I thought JN139 had the best dub script post-AG145 in English, not as bad as it has usually been from AG146 onward at least but TRio's got the cringy lines this time:

"Hey, our empty tummies are a thing of the past, dig this powerful blast!" - Meowth (I swear JCC just does this to annoy me, he thinks he's funny with the nonstop rhymes)
"Posters with the mosters" - James (Ugh, just ugh, "mosters" is not even a word TPCi!)

VA oddity:

When Ash says, "We'd like to speak to Squirtle for a sec" his voice cracked into a young woman's outright on the "sec" portion: don't think Lisa Ortiz was paying attention to her direction there!

Tracks kept in episode: 3.31/16 which is 20.7% (The 0.31 is weird because Ed/Akhil/Geoff/Steve replaced the majority of one theme, I'll explain below...)

• XY M22 バトルハウス/Battle House
• Lovely, charmy villains (only the first 9 seconds, the rest canned, very weird but nothing new for the dub over its 25 years that said)
• Congratulations on Entering the Hall of Fame!
• Gym

Shame they didn't keep The Road to Tokiwa - From Masara, that's a piece 4Kids loved to retain in the original dub in 90% of instances it played, however.

 

[PokeFanForever1]

Correct, I'm aware of that as well: somehow that's the very last cue that TPCi kept from 4Kids' tenure, to the end of DP.

No comment on his score, but I'm glad you enjoyed it! Not going to comment on the VA or music save the OST tracks kept (only reason I glance at it in one go, once we find out who the new James, Meowth, and Prof. Oak are I'll be stopping but I suspect Roger Callagy/Rob Morrison, Edward Bosco & Mick Wingert so far respectively for that triad)-- save for one thing which I found odd-- as I'd be beating a dead horse there on what I think there regarding that.

However, I will comment on the script writing this go round.

SDAs (Stupid dialogue) this dub ep, a shame since I thought JN139 had the best dub script post-AG145 in English, not as bad as it has usually been from AG146 onward at least but TRio's got the cringy lines this time:

"Hey, our empty tummies are a thing of the past, dig this powerful blast!" - Meowth (I swear JCC just does this to annoy me, he thinks he's funny with the nonstop rhymes)
"Posters with the mosters" - James (Ugh, just ugh, "mosters" is not even a word TPCi!)

VA oddity:

When Ash says, "We'd like to speak to Squirtle for a sec" his voice cracked into a young woman's outright on the "sec" portion: don't think Lisa Ortiz was paying attention to her direction there!

Tracks kept in episode: 3.31/16 which is 20.7% (The 0.31 is weird because Ed/Akhil/Geoff/Steve replaced the majority of one theme, I'll explain below...)

• XY M22 バトルハウス/Battle House
• Lovely, charmy villains (only the first 9 seconds, the rest canned, very weird but nothing new for the dub over its 25 years that said)
• Congratulations on Entering the Hall of Fame!
• Gym

Shame they didn't keep The Road to Tokiwa - From Masara, that's a piece 4Kids loved to retain in the original dub in 90% of instances it played, however

Actually regarding "Lovely Charming Villains" it was like that in the original japanese version too, it's cut off for comedic purposes so the dub didn't do that one.

the amount of tracks kept is 5

• Battle Maison (the first time the full version of the track has been heard in the dub)
• Lovely, Charming Villains (short version)
• Thrilling Excitement
• Congratulations on Entering the Hall of Fame
• Pokemon Gym (XY)

 

[snowmint]

Goldfarb's terrible musical score strikes again. Seriously, I'm listened to a lot of orchestral/instrumental music in my life, and he has got to be just.......one of the worst composers I've ever heard. Like, his score doesn't flow well at all anymore. Maybe it did at one time, like In the XY series it was tolerable at least, but now it's just.......groan-inducingly bad. Like, it's just the same boring notes repeated over and over. And of course they had to insert that garbage into the ending of this episode instead of using the much better track that was used in the original, which was this:


Pokemon deserves a better English dub score than what we're getting as of late. Say what you will about 4Kids, but their dub tracks were astronomically better than the crap we're getting nowadays.

The 4kids made BGM was just as bad too.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Actually regarding "Lovely Charming Villains" it was like that in the original japanese version too, it's cut off for comedic purposes so the dub didn't do that one.

the amount of tracks kept is 5

• Battle Maison (the first time the full version of the track has been heard in the dub)
• Lovely, Charming Villains (short version)
• Thrilling Excitement
• Congratulations on Entering the Hall of Fame
• Pokemon Gym (XY)

I stand corrected, thanks for that! So 5/16, 31.25% (I know it's listed as 24, but 8 of those tracks are eyecatches, OPs, etc not in the episode itself).

I guess the range is 1.25-6 in MPM dubbed so far, it's...I mean, it's a shame tbh 6 is the ceiling, but at least we're not getting 0/xx'd or 1/xx'd yet?

@snowmint I never thought the 4Kids dub BGM was even close to as irritating as a majority of Goldfarb's stuff, going to have to agree with Dragon Devotee on this. It did help they kept more of the OST in those days, though, even at their worst 6 was not the "high" in a Season in those days.

One thing I wonder why Ed does it, is replacing the title card theme with dub music? If he's going to leave some themes alone in the rest of the episode, why not just keep the OST for it? It stands out like a sore thumb, especially since the dub never used dub-specific cues for it after EP001, until recently.

 

[PokeFanForever1]

I stand corrected, thanks for that! So 5/16, 31.25% (I know it's listed as 24, but 8 of those tracks are eyecatches, OPs, etc not in the episode itself).

I guess the range is 1.25-6 in MPM dubbed so far, it's...I mean, it's a shame tbh 6 is the ceiling, but at least we're not getting 0/xx'd or 1/xx'd yet?

@snowmint I never thought the 4Kids dub BGM was even close to as irritating as a majority of Goldfarb's stuff, going to have to agree with Dragon Devotee on this. It did help they kept more of the OST in those days, though, even at their worst 6 was not the "high" in a Season in those days.

One thing I wonder why Ed does it, is replacing the title card theme with dub music? If he's going to leave some themes alone in the rest of the episode, why not just keep the OST for it? It stands out like a sore thumb, especially since the dub never used dub cues for it after EP001 until recently.

Indeed! Compared to SM's final season we're doing better, and it's nice that we've gotten a nice variety in tracks that have been kept recently instead of the same 2 or 3 safe tracks

As for the title card that'd likely be because the title card visuals are changed for the dub, originally they were going to keep the title card music but they must've realised it doesn't fit with the different title card visuals - the dub uses the "Next Episode" title card from the japanese version whereas the japanese title card is used for the "A Netflix Series" intro.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Indeed! Compared to SM's final season we're doing better, and it's nice that we've gotten a nice variety in tracks that have been kept recently instead of the same 2 or 3 safe tracks

As for the title card that'd likely be because the title card visuals are changed for the dub, originally they were going to keep the title card music but they must've realised it doesn't fit with the different title card visuals - the dub uses the "Next Episode" title card from the japanese version whereas the japanese title card is used for the "A Netflix Series" intro.

I think that was the dub's very worst on keeping OST tracks, not even a 5 or 6 then IIRC (4 was the ceiling apparently, and 0 was the floor).

Very weird, but interesting trivia, thanks for that: a shame they changed the visuals too, wonder if they were mandated to do that or not.

(Also correction, we did get 1/xx'd in the previous episode, so the range so far in MPM's dub is 1-6 so far)

 

[snowmint]

Wow. James actually doesn't sound like he has a head cold.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Wow. James actually doesn't sound like he has a head cold.

He still sounds nasally and goofy whenever he has to emote or yell, but he doesn’t sound like an old man anymore as he did from XY onward in the dub to me, so there’s that. I’d tie him with DP dub James but rank him below the first two and JCC's BF portrayal so far, as pre-XY that was my low point for dub! James (yes, I thought he sounded worse in DP than in AG back then, even Dogasu did by DP153 in his Review-- which says a lot since he's the one who began slamming dub James as early as Hoenn): that’s all I’ll say.

I'll give whoever the new James is this: at least he managed to save James from sounding twice his age before the dub ends, he still in his efforts to replicate JCC has carried over a nasal and goofy tone whenever the character either laughs or shouts/yells, but it's still a step up from how he's sounded since 2014. Beggars can't be choosers at this point, shame they didn't just give the role back to Ted Lewis when he's right there though.

 

[PokeMasterLA]

Wow. James actually doesn't sound like he has a head cold.

James' new VA is definitely an improvement to JCC's take. He actually sounds his age now!

I really wish I could same the same about Meowth though. No one comes to close to Maddie Blaustein's performance .

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

James' new VA is definitely an improvement to JCC's take. He actually sounds his age now!

I really wish I could same the same about Meowth though. No one comes to close to Maddie Blaustein's performance .

Pretty much: I just wish he dropped the nasal and goofy tone that he's still seemed to carry over from JCC's take from DP onward- it still has that, and it's notable whenever James emotes in the dub or has to laugh. I actually think JCC started out better in BF in this role, than he sounded for the rest of the current dub's run and better than this take.

This take is not as good as him there (or Lewis or Stuart) to me, but better than JCC from DP onward (in BW, it was a step up from DP especially when they got serious, but it got a snooty tone to it there as well so wasn't on par with BF either to me).

I still tie Callagy/whoever with JCC in DP, it's not great--but it is still an improvement from what we've had the last decade. It's still a major step up from JCC's XY-JN take though, that was the worst James has ever sounded in the entire English dub IMO (take everything that you hated about Eric's in AG in goofiness with JCC's in DP's nasally-ness, then add an old sounding man take to it, and a snooty, upper crust tone = you get that).

Pkmndub claims it's not Roger Callagy or Barrett Leddy, but I think it could very well be Roger Callagy/Rob Morrison right now & he's likely right it's not Leddy that said (could be dead wrong, too, it's just speculation and we're going to be stuck waiting until these eps hit Netflix before we find out who is taking over for JCC in his TPCi era roles and Gary soon). I still think Meowth could be Edward Bosco, and Prof. Oak is possibly Mick Wingert, at the moment.

I think Meowth actually sounds better than JCC's take from BW onward (it started getting extremely deep and gruff around that point), but is worse than Sussman/Price, Blaustein, or JCC himself in the TAJ era dub (at first, his impression of Blaustein was a lot less gruff than what it ended up beginning to become when DuArt took over, for the life of me I can't understand why it took this long for the DP dub to actually see scrutiny in any form-- as before several people would sing its praises blindly, but a welcome change for me there esp. on the script writing). However, Bosco (???) can slip in and out of the voice and the performance fluctuates so far: it can either be deeper than even JCC, or a much higher pitched take which suits him more-- hope whoever it is sticks with the voice used here & in the Ash vs Misty ep in JN, not in the last episode or his debut.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

The 4kids made BGM was just as bad too.

In your opinion, anyway.