Satoshi-tachi speculation

[Archaic]

That value was only for insane shippers.

So...every single shipper then?

Another writer created character that's been forgotten. Drew. Max was at least based off a (minor) NPC in Ru/Sa/Em, but Drew was brand new.

Wild and crazy idea time. What if, instead of a group of 3-4, they had a group of 2 who was joined by a series of minor characters (The samurai bug catcher, AJ, etc) for a couple of episodes each?

 

[Jo-Jo]

I suppose in theory Drew can be seen as a kind of cross between Brendan (May's rival) and Gary (bit of a snot). But that's probably a stretch. Good point about him, though - he's pretty well-liked in the fan community, which could be a point in favour of other non-game-based characters like Tracey. Drew is in contests, though, which gives him at least a little bit of marketability.

What if, instead of a group of 3-4, they had a group of 2 who was joined by a series of minor characters (The samurai bug catcher, AJ, etc) for a couple of episodes each?

I'm not sure that would work. It would mean that the relationship between the two regulars would have to carry most of the season (think the Doctor/Rose dynamic from the new Dr. Who), and we know how good these writers are at characterisation.

 

[Unregistered]

Meh, they could have a group of only Ash and May the entire season and there wouldn't be much problem.

It's not like Brock and Max really do much anymore anyway.

Ash and May could carry a whole season by themselves.

 

[Jo-Jo]

But could the Ash/May dynamic carry a season? How interesting is it, really? They have a sweet friendship, but if they're going to be the only regular characters, they'd need a rock-solid bond to keep pulling viewers in. People are interested in relationships between the characters; the fewer relationships there are, the more compelling each one individually needs to be.

 

[Zeta]

Exactly. The essence of a story and of character development is conflict. Ash and May don't have it. They rarely fight, they get along wonderfully. However, that's not very interesting to watch. Would you really want an entire season of episodes like the series was up till Max was introduced? When you think about it, Ash and May are just different-gendered versions of the same character archetype (Sweet, kind, competitive, love to travel) and that would just get boring without anybody else to bounce their personalities off.

Personally, I prefer the idea of Ash, May, and two new supporting characters (or heck - maybe even Jessie, James, and Meowth if they ever quit Team Rocket).

The problem with Max, Brock, Misty, and Tracey is that none of them have an attainable goal that can be reached by traveling with Ash and May. Misty and Tracey are both very happy and satisfied where they are - they're living out their dreams. Max has a goal, but he just has to sit around and wait for it to come to him. Wandering around is not going to make him 10 any faster. Brock hasn't worked toward his goal since freaking Togepi hatched. And it's hard to be a Pokemon Breeder without a breeding Ranch anyways - it's not like you can be a traveling animal husbandry expert.

The writers either need to give two of them a new desire or purpose or replace them with characters who DO have a purpose or goal that can spur character development and interesting episodes . . . especially now that people are becoming more bored with Ash's increasingly formulatic quests (Get 8 Badges, loose a tournament - wash, rinse, repeat).

 

[Habunake]

That's why I'm starting to like these new episodes because Ash won't be collecting badges, and right now no one is sure what he'll do.

I could see Max continue to travel with Ash to fufil his dream, but he probably would want to go off on his own. I don't see why we an't have Ash traveling alone for a while?

 

[cold_katanagirl]

Y'know, they should ditch all the current characters and start clean.

I love Ash and the rest of them as much as the next person, but Ash is starting to get really tiring. After four hundred episodes, I think it's time to start anew.

Wish it was more like the manga. New characters per region, but the old characters still come back. That's what I think anyway...

Ash/May? By themselves? That would be... pretty uneventful.

I don't know why they never brought Brendan or Wally in. Brendan could have been Ash's rival, and you know we'd get a lot of Hoennshipping stuff. And Wally had a lot of potential.

But no. Brendan gets a lame two second cameo in the sixth movie. What is WRONG with these writers sometimes?

'm going to go insane if Ash goes to yet another region and collects badges. New characters plz.

 

[Jo-Jo]

Exactly. The essence of a story and of character development is conflict. Ash and May don't have it. They rarely fight, they get along wonderfully. However, that's not very interesting to watch.

Bingo. ^_^ Ash and May don't have enough... passion together, I guess (in a non-shippy sense). I love Ash Catches a Pokemon and The Challenge of the Samurai because Ash and Misty by themselves do form an entertaining duo; however, even those two might have gotten boring after a while, which is probably why Brock was brought in.

The problem with Max, Brock, Misty, and Tracey is that none of them have an attainable goal that can be reached by traveling with Ash and May.

Heh, we had a debate about this in the Serebii Pokeshipping thread. Might as well C&P my argument, I suppose...

There's one thing that people always forget about when bringing up the 'goals' argument, though: Misty, Brock, Tracey and Max aren't the same kind of character as Ash and May. They don't have a driving motivation that forms a plotline - or, in Ash's case, The Plot - of the series. Their ambitions are there to provide a bit of background to their characters, and create an excuse for them wanting to travel around with Ash in the first place. However, their real purpose in the series is to be Ash's sidekicks. They are his supporters and helpers; they're the ones who shout out advice in battle, carry the map, lend a hand when Ash (or May) is being overpowered, or whatever. But they don't have a proper story of their own. Their roles are and always have been supporting ones.

That's why I find it strange when people compare May and Misty and say that May's better because she achieves more. It's comparing apples and oranges. Misty doesn't have to achieve anything besides being Ash's stalwart friend and hanger-on, which is a job that she's always done very well, regardless of how many water Pokemon she'd caught.

Interestingly, that May isn't a sidekick like the others creates a barrier between her and Ash. She's the only one whose purpose is not intrinsically tied to him (except for Max, who is linked to both her and Ash). You could separate out her journey and Ash's journey and they'd both make quite plausible plotlines without needing to cross over more than a couple of times.

 

[Misty]

I don't know why they never brought Brendan or Wally in. Brendan could have been Ash's rival, and you know we'd get a lot of Hoennshipping stuff. And Wally had a lot of potential.

The anime people have always had an aversion to using the canon game characters. Perhaps they don't want to step on the toes of the manga people. Hell, even May and Sapphire are entirely different people.

 

[Zeta]

The anime people have always had an aversion to using the canon game characters. Perhaps they don't want to step on the toes of the manga people. Hell, even May and Sapphire are entirely different people.

Which is why the inclusion of May pissed of a lot of people off, because they assumed the writers were finally starting to use game characters besides Gym Leaders - and thus they were constantly on the lookout for Wally and Brendan to complete the set . . .

 

[FabuVinny]

It could be very interesting to have another male trainer in the group. Maybe he could be Ash's new rival. It might be cool to have two main characters aiming to enter the league.

Unless D/P gives two ways to enter the League, that isn't going to happen! Think about it, May was originally going to battle Gym Leaders with Ash. Do you want to see every Gym battle twice, just with the main character using slightly different Pokémon? That's why they had her decide to enter contests and the Grand Festival instead.

 

[Zeta]

Unless D/P gives two ways to enter the League, that isn't going to happen! Think about it, May was originally going to battle Gym Leaders with Ash. Do you want to see every Gym battle twice, just with the main character using slightly different Pokémon? That's why they had her decide to enter contests and the Grand Festival instead.

True, they couldn't be rivals shooting for the same goal. But it would be nice to see Ash conflict with a male human member of the group in a more antagonistic role. We've really only seen his antagonism with two people - Misty, who was a girl. And Gary, who hardly ever appeared. So having a Gary-like character remain in the party for some time would really bring out some interesting aspects of Ash's personality - especially if the character still antagonized Ash but didn't want to enter the League or collect badges - how would Ash deal with someone who ticks him off like Gary, but can't compete in the same field with to resolve their issues? How would he resolve repeated conflicts without a Pokemon battle - either friendly or violent (like against Team Rocket)?

It could be extremely interesting and funny to watch. Like a football player and a basketball player who hate eachother's guts on the one hand, but constantly pall around with while refusing to try the other's sport . . .

 

[Rocketshipper]

I wouldn't mind seeing two trainers battle the gym leaders. It's better than filler. And they could have them winning badges from different gyms. Ash could get his 8 from the in-game gyms and the new trainer could get his from some other gyms; of course it might be hard to come up with a reason why Ash doesn't try to win badges from those gyms too.

I hope the writers can come up with something different for the next region. May's contests saved Hoenn from being a shorter better paced Johto re-run, but if they just have the same contest/badge quests in the next region it will be a Hoenn repeat. Whatever new cast member is added to the next season should bring some new aspect into the show. I think having two trainers going for badges in the main cast could provide some new material; Ash has never had his rival travelling in his group before. But if not that then they need to come up with something new besides gyms and contests. But then I wonder how the writers would handle having THREE characters with goals. Could they juggle Contests, Gym battles, and some new quest at the same time?

 

[Zeta]

Could they juggle Contests, Gym battles, and some new quest at the same time?

At that point we'd pretty much say "goodbye" to fillers. Heh. Well, maybe one every 18 episodes, but still . . .

 

[Unregistered]

That's exactly why I'm worried about the D/P region.

If it still has GYMs and Contests, we'll have a Hoenn repeat on our hands.

Not to mention Ash's quest has gotten so repetitive now. He has 28 badges in total, that's enough! I don't think I can stand watching Ash go for ANOTHER 8 badges in the next region, I mean c'mon it's so repetitive. This is why I hope the next games don't have GYMS, I'm so sick and tired of Ash collect 8 pieces of plastic since the show began.

Likewise, May's 5 ribbons were fresh and new this time, but wouldn't May's quest just be a rehash next time as well?

We'll just end up seeing her go to several Contests, maybe lose a few, but then get the same 5 Ribbons again and lose in the next Grand Festival. (Since they're not going to have May win only her second tournament, since Ash hasn't even won a real tournament)

The show really has to change in the D/P region, or we'll get a Hoenn, or (even worse) a Johto rehash.

Ash collecting badges for the 5th region in a row will have me pulling my hair out.

 

[Sabonea]

I'm extremely curious as to how the writers plan to pull the D/P region off with at least some degree of originality. My guess as that they won't. I'd be extremely surprised if they axed the badge quest, as it has been central to the storyline for so long. I think they changed Hoenn as much as possible without actually diverging from their formula.

While Haruka' contest were extremely interesting, the highlight of Hoenn IMHO, I don't think I could take another 130+ episodes of them. My guess is that they will either replace everyone - extremely unlikely - or even better, give Satoshi all new travelling companions with new goals. With Haruka' success in advertising R/S, I'm guessing the writers would be willing to try a similiar strategy this time with more game based characters. I also wouldn't bet against Takeshi returning again. The writers seem loath to write him out, as much as he probably deserves to be at this point -_-;

 

[Roses Ablaze]

Bah, we have enough main male characters. I think we need a real tomboy - not a skinny hothead like Misty, but someone who's really into more boyish things and has very little interest in frivolous things like shopping and makeup.

 

[cold_katanagirl]

I agree. I want a real tomboy. Misty was close, but she ended up liking shopping and all that jazz.

Personally, I'd like it if Ash had a female rival this time around, either that or a tomboy traveling with him.

But I don't want to see Ash get eight badges AGAIN. This is getting more repetitive than Inuyasha. May was good for awhile, but seeing her get ribbons, then getting her butt kicked at the Grand Festival again doesn't sound all that fun to me. =/

It would have been better if Ash, Misty, and Brock starred in Kanto, some new Johto characters doing Johto, and a couple Hoenn characters (*coughbrendanwallycough*) doing Hoenn. But I've been reading the manga too much. *runs*

 

[Jo-Jo]

I like the idea of a female rival for Ash. Especially as all of the strong rivals and tournament winners so far have been male. Gary, Richie, Harrison, Drew, Robert, Tetsuya... At least we have May for a contest protagonist, and Misty beating Ash in the Whirl Cup, then losing to another girl. But that's no reason why we can't have another tough chick around. ^_^

 

[Unregistered]

Um, even if they do use all new characters you do realize we'll be seeing the same stuff anyway?

Imagine if they used Brendan for Hoenn instead of Ash. What would we get? Brendan going to the 8 Hoenn GYMS and then losing in the league, the same exact thing Ash did.

No matter how many characters they add or change, the show will still be repetitive unless they complete throw the GYM quest out the window.

I don't know why the writers think that people won't lose interest in the show when we've watched the same damn GYM quest for 3.5 regions already.