Satoshi without a starter, does it work?

[Eevee800]

This is the first time in 20 years, Satoshi has a team without a Starter pokemon (not counting Pikachu). Would it work in general?

We have gotten companions without any starter pokemon and those pokemon usually got the short end of the stick. Cilans Pansage, Iris Axew, Mallows Tsareena,..


Does it work? Is this a good formula for the future or should they go back to starters next generation? Or do starters add something unique to the team?

 

[Rockapheller]

It is, in my opinion, irrelevant. Whether Ash had a starter with him or not, it all depends on the plot and how the writers treat his Pokémon. Being a "starter" does not give any specific qualities to Pokémon in the aspect of writing, aside from giving them somewhat a special treatment time to time due to popularity. In terms of Ash with starters, it has a conflicted history. Hoenn (and to an extent Alola) is often praised, Sinnoh is a mixture of good and bad because of Infernape (positive) and Torterra (negative). Unova is often criticized. Kalos is really complicated as some love, while some hate how Greninja was handled. Therefore, Journeys should not be a base of a definite opinion regarding that.

 

[Eevee800]

It is, in my opinion, irrelevant. Whether Ash had a starter with him or not, it all depends on the plot and how the writers treat his Pokémon. Being a "starter" does not give any specific qualities to Pokémon in the aspect of writing, aside from giving them somewhat a special treatment time to time due to popularity. In terms of Ash with starters, it has a conflicted history. Hoenn (and to an extent Alola) is often praised, Sinnoh is a mixture of good and bad because of Infernape (positive) and Torterra (negative). Unova is often criticized. Kalos is really complicated as some love, while some hate how Greninja was handled. Therefore, Journeys should not be a base of a definite opinion regarding that.

Of course not. I was talking more in general haha. I mean after 20 years, a change wouldnt hurt in the sense not non-starter pokemon can maybe produce more original stories? When you think about it, one of the starters usual hogs most screentime in the past while if there are no starter pokemon it can maybe feel more equally devided.

 

[FelipePR]

Does it work? Is this a good formula for the future or should they go back to starters next generation? Or do starters add something unique to the team?

Well, despite not having a Start, Ash formed a team with several renowned Pokemon. So, for me, who has followed the franchise for a long time, it works. Now, for someone who started following the anime after the release of Sword and Shield, I don't know. But overall, I think it's smarter for the protagonist to have at least one of the initials than to have none.

 

[Eevee800]

Well, despite not having a Start, Ash formed a team with several renowned Pokemons. So, for me, who has followed the franchise for a long time, it works. Now, for someone who started following the anime since the release of Sword and Shield, I don't know. But overall, I think it's smarter for the protagonist to have at least one of the initials than to have none.

Why would it be smarter? Tho you can argue this generation that Lucario "is his starter".

 

[PaperSplash]

Unpopular opinion but yes. Ash can have a more varied, diverse and less predictable team when he's not forced to carry a starter.

 

[Eevee800]

Unpopular opinion but yes. Ash can have a more varied, diverse and less predictable team when he's not forced to carry a starter.

Maybe some more unique stories than the Fire starter sad backstory thing (tho they did the same with Gengar). Sirfechted was a great example, so was Goodra.

 

[FelipePR]

Why would it be smarter? Tho you can argue this generation that Lucario "is his starter".

Because of, until then, the mutual relationship between anime and games. In which one serves as publicity or propellant for the other. As you said, Lucario happened to be the great representative or decoy of its generation. But overall, the safe bet is certainly one of the Starting Pokémon.

In a way, Pokémon Journeys changed a little bit of that. But I always see people complaining and wanting the anime to have more of Galar. And that, in a way, demonstrates the relevance of this correlation.

 

[Eevee800]

Because of, until then, the mutual relationship between anime and games. In which one serves as publicity or propellant for the other. As you said, Lucario happened to be the great representative or decoy of his generation. But overall, the safe bet is certainly one of the Starting Pokemons.

In a way, Pokémon Journeys changed a little bit of that. But I always see people complaining and wanting the anime to have more of Galar. And that, in a way, demonstrates the relevance of this correlation.

True! Ppl complain they wanted to see a "Galar region where Satoshi travels",cause the games did. I mean in the past: anime==>selling games and merch. But now? It does in the oppositie: direction selling games en merch==>anime .

Tho I believe a team where each pokemon is equal without a starter can work. Tho I never saw it before in the anime before. Lucario gets the most screentime of Satoshis pokemon in Journeys (Like a starter would) so far, at least it feels that way to me.

 

[nickdt]

It can work in theory, but it depends also on the execution. The way Journeys is doing it, it doesn't work (As already proven by the fact only Cinderace line got focus early on).

 

[Eevee800]

It can work in theory, but it depends also on the execution. The way Journeys is doing it, it doesn't work (As already proven by the fact only Cinderace line got focus early on).

It is kinda sad, isnt it? They should at least gave Satoshi Dragonite sooner. The first 10 episodes he didnt do alot and it was awkward as hell.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Unpopular opinion but yes. Ash can have a more varied, diverse and less predictable team when he's not forced to carry a starter.

I still don't really understand this logic. People weren't upset with Ash being "forced" to carry a starter before Journeys. Wondering which starter Ash would get has always been a common bit of speculation with every new generation. Being less predictable also doesn't necessarily make his team better. No one would have predicted Ash's Journeys team, but I don't think that means it's necessarily better than a more traditional team. Being different for the shake of it doesn't really mean much for me. I'd rather have a more well developed predictable team than something varied and diverse if it's going to be handled like Ash's Journeys team.

As for the question itself, I'm going to go with no. I don't think that the idea itself is necessarily a bad one, but since we only have Journeys to go off with this concept, I don't think it works. Sure, Ash's Journeys team is different, full of popular Pokemon, some of which people wanted Ash to capture for years, but when they don't really interact with each other, don't have focus outside of their capture/evolution/upgrade episodes and just show up for battles, I don't think it really means anything. Aside from Lucario and maybe Sirfetch'd, Ash's Journeys team members haven't really gotten much focus. I still think it was a huge mistake to give him a fully evolved team so quickly. I think that would have been bad in any series, but it's even worse when Journeys has rather minimal focus episodes on specific Pokemon after they're caught.

To be fair, I don't think a Sobble or Grookey would have been handled significantly better under Ash's command. The issue of Pokemon not getting a lot of focus episodes is an issue for the whole series, not just something specific for Ash or Goh's teams. They might have been able to battle more before evolving, but given the amount of off-screen PWC matches Ash had, even that isn't a guarantee. Besides that, the treatment of starters from different series has been rather mixed too, so even without factoring in some of Journeys' own problems, they'd be far from guaranteed to be handled perfectly in Ash's team. As cool as Ash's Journeys team looks on paper and as much as I love that he has a Lucario like I wanted for years, I would have wanted to see him get more Pokemon to raise from the ground up, including one of the Galar starters, if only to have more Galar presence in the series and potentially give Ash more Pokemon to work with instead of giving him evolved Pokemon.

 

[Eevee800]

I still don't really understand this logic. People weren't upset with Ash being "forced" to carry a starter before Journeys. Wondering which starter Ash would get has always been a common bit of speculation with every new generation. Being less predictable also doesn't necessarily make his team better. No one would have predicted Ash's Journeys team, but I don't think that means it's necessarily better than a more traditional team. Being different for the shake of it doesn't really mean much for me. I'd rather have a more well developed predictable team than something varied and diverse if it's going to be handled like Ash's Journeys team.

As for the question itself, I'm going to go with no. I don't think that the idea itself is necessarily a bad one, but since we only have Journeys to go off with this concept, I don't think it works. Sure, Ash's Journeys team is different, full of popular Pokemon, some of which people wanted Ash to capture for years, but when they don't really interact with each other, don't have focus outside of their capture/evolution/upgrade episodes and just show up for battles, I don't think it really means anything. Aside from Lucario and maybe Sirfetch'd, Ash's Journeys team members haven't really gotten much focus. I still think it was a huge mistake to give him a fully evolved team so quickly. I think that would have been bad in any series, but it's even worse when Journeys has rather minimal focus episodes on specific Pokemon after they're caught.

To be fair, I don't think a Sobble or Grookey would have been handled significantly better under Ash's command. The issue of Pokemon not getting a lot of focus episodes is an issue for the whole series, not just something specific for Ash or Goh's teams. They might have been able to battle more before evolving, but given the amount of off-screen PWC matches Ash had, even that isn't a guarantee. Besides that, the treatment of starters from different series has been rather mixed too, so even without factoring in some of Journeys' own problems, they'd be far from guaranteed to be handled perfectly in Ash's team. As cool as Ash's Journeys team looks on paper and as much as I love that he has a Lucario like I wanted for years, I would have wanted to see him get more Pokemon to raise from the ground up, including one of the Galar starters, if only to have more Galar presence in the series and potentially give Ash more Pokemon to work with instead of giving him evolved Pokemon.

Fair, you would think the World series leaves alot of room for more unique pokemon, but no 75% of his Pokemon rn are Kanto or evolved from variants based on Kanto ones . The problem is that if a character has one of more starters, one gets shafted, no question. It happend with Torterra, Rowlet, Snivy, Totedile... It is a true, but sad fact.
Lucario is basically his starter in this series.

 

[FelipePR]

Tho I believe a team where each pokemon is equal without a starter can work. Tho I never saw it before in the anime before. Lucario gets the most screentime of Satoshis pokemon in Journeys (Like a starter would) so far, at least it feels that way to me.

I also believe that it could work, but it would require more effort from producers and writers than giving more screentime to a Pokémon that is already popular or is the start for the region. So, if the risk and effort are greater, and the easy way out is working, there may be little reason to do so.

 

[Eevee800]

I also believe that it could work, but it would require more effort from producers and writers than giving more screentime to a Pokémon that is already popular or is the start for the region. So if the risk and effort are greater, and the easy way out is working, there may be little reason to do so.

It is a true shame! It is really is. An anime with a non popular pokemon getting popular due the anime would be amazing. And a non-starter team would be ideal for that!

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

No. Absolutely not. Ash not having a starter not only feels wrong, but Journeys has shown us it just doesn't work.

First of all, let's address the elephant in the room. Journeys has done a horrendous job at handling Pokemon. Its not an Ash or Goh issue. This applies to both of them. Goh catches far too many Pokemon he never uses to focus on. Ash's Pokemon only ever get ANY focus if they're battling, evolving, or getting an upgrade. We pretty much never get episodes focused on interactions, training, or developing their story.

I think though one of my biggest problems with Goh having all 3 srarters is that he is not the kind of character who uses them frequently enough in interesting ways that showcase their abilities. They've handled the development of all of the starters very poorly, with Sobble's standing out as the worst. While there's no guarantee that they would have been handled much better under Ash, I think we would have at least seen at least one of starters get to battle more frequently. We might have seen something cohesive, yet shallow, story surrounding them, similar to what Lucario got. I'd take that over seeing the starters do nothing. There's no guarantee though, but the chances of it with Ash are slightly better.

Also, I strongly disagree with the logic that Ash not getting a single starter makes his team more unpredictable. I don't ever recall people complaining about him catching any. Plus, he can still catch one starter and we'd still have 4 slots that would remain unpredictable. Plus, I'd rather have a good team that's somewhat predictable also than what we have now.

So no. Not giving Ash any Galar starters was a mistake.

 

[ii kanji]

I think it absolutely could work, just unfortunate that the only series they’ve tried this they’ve failed epically at developing every single pokemon on the cast (including all 3 starters IMO), so we might never be allowed to see this experiment done right.

 

[PaperSplash]

I still don't really understand this logic. People weren't upset with Ash being "forced" to carry a starter before Journeys. Wondering which starter Ash would get has always been a common bit of speculation with every new generation.

Also, I strongly disagree with the logic that Ash not getting a single starter makes his team more unpredictable. I don't ever recall people complaining about him catching any.

I was only speaking for myself, not for any other people. Hence why I prefaced it as an unpopular opinion.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I was only speaking for myself, not for any other people. Hence why I prefaced it as an unpopular opinion.

I understand that and I wasn't implying that you were speaking for anyone else besides yourself. I was just expressing my disagreement with that opinion. The idea that Ash's team is inherently better without a predictable starter has come up multiple times and I've never understood it.

 

[R1ke]

Yep, but you gotta give him a pokemon to fulfill that role. When properly developed, having a non starter as his regional ace works. Like Krookodile and Lycranoc. Lucario’s also a great candidate, but it obviously hasn’t been handled well. I think as long as you give the pokemon a good backstory, something to work towards and ample focus, it should be fine. It is jarring but doable imo.