Scrapping Kris for Kotone.

[Glitchipedia]

Yes. But as the player, he's the same character he was in the originals, and I think the same reasoning could be applied for the girl -same character as the player, new character as NPC.

Unfortunately, unlike FRLG which had a secuel that confirmed Red to be the canon protagonist for Gen I -and the Gen III remakes for it-, neither GSC nor HGSS have received a secuel thus far, making it impossible at this point to establish whether Gold/Hibiki or Kris/Kotone is the canon protagonist of Johto's story.

@Glitchy (can I call you that?): I knew you meant design-wise, that's why I brought in the resemblance with Youngsters to add something to this.

It seems, any way you look at it, there are flaws in all the hypotheses presented, my own included.

And yes, you can call me Glitchy.

 

[VeggiePopper]

You have got a point there. Its very similar...

There will always be a debate about this. Just like there will always be a debate about Pika's gender (even though its confirmed now). But I think we should just let this thread die and let it rest in pieces...

NO, PIKA is a lesbian!!!!11111!!!!oneone!!!!!!

 

[Koji-Kun]

NO, PIKA is a lesbian!!!!11111!!!!oneone!!!!!!

A BUTCH lesbian. Cuz Pikachu has the boy tail.

 

[Cybersai]

They are redesigning the boys slightly too, just not to the same extreme. Red, Gary, and the GS male are all different in design than their original counterparts.

If R/S remakes do happen, I wonder if Brendan/May will stay similar to their original designs rather than a total change.

 

[Falconwing]

They are redesigning the boys slightly too, just not to the same extreme. Red, Gary, and the GS male are all different in design than their original counterparts.

If R/S remakes do happen, I wonder if Brendan/May will stay similar to their original designs rather than a total change.

Hopefully they'll convince everyone that that's NOT HIS HAIR.

 

[HappyPumpkin]

Hopefully they'll convince everyone that that's NOT HIS HAIR.

Well, actually..Game Freak is confusing. Let's not try and debate on that until the remakes, where they say if it's a hat, he has white hair, or two colored hair.

Maybe, in the remakes, they will have a continuity nod that will help clear up the Kris-Soul predicament.

 

[LightningKimba]

Maybe, in the remakes, they will have a continuity nod that will help clear up the Kris-Soul predicament.

Or (And hopefully not), they'll simply use the "Kris-doesn't-exist-'cause-Hibiki-exists" case that pretty much removed any chance of Leaf popping up in Hg/Ss.

 

[Falconwing]

Or (And hopefully not), they'll simply use the "Kris-doesn't-exist-'cause-Hibiki-exists" case that pretty much removed any chance of Leaf popping up in Hg/Ss.

Except that was different. Kotone and Hibiki are two different characters. Leaf and Red were the same person.

 

[shining-Celebi]

Hardeeharhar

Told you. Told you, told you, told you.
Told you.

Kotone is NOT Kris for one simple reason: This isn't a CRYSTAL remake. Its a GS remake. How is this concrete?

Celebi. Thats right. In GS Celebi had no event item. In Crystal Celebi had an event item. In HGSS Celebi has no event item.

So GS=HGSS

I win, you're wrong get over it.

:^D

 

[$aturn¥oshi]

But Celebi still has an event.

 

[Tessellation]

Hardeeharhar

Told you. Told you, told you, told you.
Told you.

Kotone is NOT Kris for one simple reason: This isn't a CRYSTAL remake. Its a GS remake. How is this concrete?

Celebi. Thats right. In GS Celebi had no event item. In Crystal Celebi had an event item. In HGSS Celebi has no event item.

So GS=HGSS

I win, you're wrong get over it.

:^D

While I agree that Kris is not Kotone, that argument doesn't exactly work as every single Crystal feature was put into these games other than the Odd Egg (which I think will make some sort of appearance eventually) and as you said, the GS Ball...

This is what I believe: What happened in RGBYGSC does not matter anymore. FRLG, RSE, DPPt, and HGSS are the main games now. HGSS rewrote time. Is it that hard to believe that both Kotone and Hibiki are their own characters? She's not Kris, he's not Gold.

 

[The Outrage]

Oh lol not a Crystal remake because of the absence of an event item.

Eusene, Suicune, Dragon's Den elder, Extreme Speed Dratini and other in-game Crystal features say what?

 

[Koji-Kun]

Oh lol not a Crystal remake because of the absence of an event item.

Eusene, Suicune, Dragon's Den elder, Extreme Speed Dratini and other in-game Crystal features say what?

I agree, HGSS takes the names of GS but has Crystal elements in it...

But still, this debate it pointless. Kotone is a remake of Kris, though not the same character. Its a REMAKE. They REMADE her. o_o;; Why is this such a problem? XD Just like they remade Gold to be Hibiki, they remade Kris to be Kotone. Even though she went over a HUGE change compared to Gold, its no longer the same exact character like Gold is not Hibiki. In canon, Gold and Kris DO NOT EXIST ANYMORE. They've been replaced by Hibiki and Kotone, as similar or not similar as they are to the originals.

 

[shining-Celebi]

God forbid they change anything in a REMAKE of a game.

I repeat R-E-M-A-K-E. As in Redo or make again.

For practical reasons they added in Crystal elements.
Still, this ISN'T a Crystal remake(Celebi item shows that), therefore Kris has no place to have been retconned in the first place.

 

[The Outrage]

God forbid they change anything in a REMAKE of a game.

I repeat R-E-M-A-K-E. As in Redo or make again.

For practical reasons they added in Crystal elements.
Still, this ISN'T a Crystal remake(Celebi item shows that), therefore Kris has no place to have been retconned in the first place.

HGSS is a GEN II remake. The fact that EVERY Crystal element made it in the game minus an event THAT THE REST OF THE WORLD DIDN'T GET proves it.

Get over yourself. And like you said, "God forbid they change anything", you know, like the Celebi event the rest of the world DIDN'T get, to make it more plot relevant.

 

[Glitchipedia]

shining-Celebi, you're just bringing this debate right back where it started.

Now I see why this thing goes on for 80-some pages: we keep looping back to the same thing. Someone get the scissors and cut the Möbius strip, please?

 

[shining-Celebi]

HGSS is a GEN II remake. The fact that EVERY Crystal element made it in the game minus an event THAT THE REST OF THE WORLD DIDN'T GET proves it.

Get over yourself. And like you said, "God forbid they change anything", you know, like the Celebi event the rest of the world DIDN'T get, to make it more plot relevant.

Wrong.

Every? LOL.
Add these to your list of axes oh-so-knowledgeable-one:
1) The need to catch the dogs to catch Ho-oh
2) Suicune in the Tin/Brass Tower
3) No Kris


Like I said before, this isn't a Crystal remake. Therefore, a new character(Kotone) was created to replace the Crystal-infected Kris character.

Well what does the rest of the world have to do with this? They could have easily added in a Celebi so, you know, the world did get it. Your point is moot.

 

[Envoy]

1) It's a G/S remake with just about every Crystal element thrown in, but it's still a G/S remake. They had to keep the Rainbow Wing

2) The Suicune subplot is present and expanded. So what if you don't battle it in the Tin Tower? The main plot is there, and it's even longer than Crystal's. Point moot

3) This one doesn't count as it is exactly what we're debating. You can't use the subject as the argument as the subject itself is what's being contested

It matters because they didn't. They could have, but they didn't. The rest of the world didn't recieve a Celebi event, making it only viable in Japan. Moreover, the Celebi event, while changed, is still present. As such, this argument is also moot

 

[shining-Celebi]

1) It's a G/S remake with just about every Crystal element thrown in, but it's still a G/S remake. They had to keep the Rainbow Wing

2) The Suicune subplot is present and expanded. So what if you don't battle it in the Tin Tower? The main plot is there, and it's even longer than Crystal's. Point moot

3) This one doesn't count as it is exactly what we're debating. You can't use the subject as the argument as the subject itself is what's being contested

It matters because they didn't. They could have, but they didn't. The rest of the world didn't recieve a Celebi event, making it only viable in Japan. Moreover, the Celebi event, while changed, is still present. As such, this argument is also moot

1) Bolded what I've been and am saying.

2) Suicune doesn't have as high importance as in Crystal. Clear Bells actually FOR suicune anyone?

3) Until I see a blue haired girl, there is no Kris in HGSS.
Sorry. :^D

No dear, the american games also had the Celebi event. But did American/JP GS games have one? No. We're arguing how Celebi has an event in Crystal and only Crystal, regardless of Nintendo distributing it, because the coding is there.Period.
"Celebi event still present" I laugh at this statement. The current one is only changed to the extent of tayloring to the plot's conclusion. Celebi isn't catchable, it's just used. I see no item that activates an encounter with Celebi.
YOUR point is now moot.

 

[The Outrage]

Crystal let you play as s female, so does HGSS. Who the fuck cares about Kris, she didn't really have her own role.

They took out their favoritism towards Ho-Oh, capturing the dogs is still part of the Eusine sub-plot as you still had to show him the dogs.

As you said, God forbid they change anything in a remake, unless you wish to go with Maxim's old approach that this isn't a GS remake either considering how many things were altered from the original GS.
Honestly, its pretty easy to argue your points since you provide the counter material.

Again, get over yourself. The only thing worse than a sore loser who can't admit he's lost is a sore winner who won't shut up about it. Winning gracefully is obviously a foreign concept to most members.