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Speculation Sevii Islands in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire

If Mew and Deoxys are available in Sevii Islands somewhere like in FRLG/Emerald (or anywhere for that matter)

Mew wasn't on the Seven Isles. Faraway Island is a remote island jungle in Guyana. Lugia and Houou were found on the Seven Isles (Navel Rock), though.

Point A: We do know for a fact that Pokemon like Aggron and Abomasnow existed long before their respective debuts (in universe). The ultimate weapon flashback showed quite a few species in fact.

Point B: The PokeDex entries don't actually mean anything in universe. They're a classic example of Gameplay and Story Segregation. We know that because well the PokeDex entries often make little sense. Besides they often contradict things. Banette for instance according to it's Pokedex is some sort of living doll but we know that's not true because it's an actual species. It evolves from Shuppet and that can breed.

There's also the fact that it references real life animals, which is clearly just for the player's benefit.

Masuda tweeted in early March that he had just met OLM to discuss something. I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't do that for a project related to the regular anime, so my guess is that the meeting was releated to an Origins-like adaptation. Now, this doesn't mean that Masuda oversaw Origins' production, but it does lend credence to that possibility.

That's a hasty assumption, considering nothing of the sort is implied in that tweet. All he basically says in that tweet is that he met with OLM, "the people in charge of making the Pokemon anime" (not "THE ORIGIN"), and had a great time talking to them, particularly Toshiaki Okuno (one of the head animation producers at OLM that works on the mainstream anime). He has assisted the regular anime before, and he tweets about random mundane things like watching the Japanese dub of Frozen, so who's to say it isn't just him tweeting about having a great time talking with the anime staff during a possibly mundane meeting? Heck, the purpose of the meeting could have been discussion pertaining the The Cocoon of Destruction and Diancie movie for all we know (anything, really).

Also, if he was meeting with OLM to discuss another Origin adaptation, why just OLM and not the other two animation studios that were responsible for its production? Any involvement by Masuda isn't very convincing to me, anyway. Didn't he have a large hand in producing films like the Deoxys movie, where Rayquaza acted totally out-of-character from its game counterpart? I don't think he has problems with artistic liberty.

I would love another adaptation like The Origin, but I wouldn't get my hopes up over a tweet like that.

With OLM being one of those studios? I doubt that it was their initiative.
And why not? They were in charge of the B2W2 animated trailer and they were part of The Origin collaboration, so they're not completely against making an animated feature that's actually closer to the source material. Not to mention, you're confusing the entire company for the staff employed to make the questionable and nonsensical decisions of the regular anime. The Origin had different writers in charge of the screenplay, and with two other studios involved, a different approach in adaptation is expected.

It's wildly different. Origins did not feel like an obvious promotion tool.
As much integrity it had with its focus and story objective compared to how the regular anime is now and regardless of how it "feels", it's still a promotional tool in regards to introducing an aspect from an upcoming product. That doesn't make it a bad thing, but that's what it is.

It functioned the same way any other Pocket Monsters anime adaptation does as an advertisement. As you said, there were better ways to introduce the new Mega Lizardon X form, but they still used The Origin to do that. That's no different from half the things the current anime does in regards to its promotions. Game Freak as a corporate company probably didn't care about whether or not it was faithful to their vision as long as it was getting attention.

They did a lot more than that, including things from the games that the other adaptations had never done. Why bother?
They wanted to make an adaptation of Red and Green, and included stuff from the games that the other adaptations left out in order for it to be a unique adaptation? It was certainly a treat, but there wasn't anything particularly strange about it that a person would ask "why bother?" My reaction to the Pokemon Tower arc was more of a "why didn't the other adaptations do this to begin with?" rather than "Game Freak totally had a say in this!" People are free to apply Broad Strokes to their headcanon if they really wanted, but until proven otherwise, it's not officially relevant to what happens in the games and/or Game Freak's opinion on how to handle a protagonist like Red.

As I said, Mega Lizardon X was possibly one thing that was imposed onto the production team so they could advertise Pocket Monsters XY. Coupled with Kantou nostalgia, that might even be the reason why the animation was even green-lit to begin with. If Xebec/Production I.G./OLM intended The Origin to be an extremely special adaptation with Game Freak overseeing the production, and contained new details about the original games that are now integrated to the games' mainstream canon, is there any reason why they never bothered to state this? Wouldn't that been beneficial to ratings, and consequentially, sales?

I''m not totally throwing out the possibility of Game Freak having some sort of supervision when it came to the special, but I'm just saying that you put a little too much faith in that assumption. Even if that were the case, there's also the fact that there are adaptations (not just Pocket Monsters, and not just anime either - this includes American animation, different mediums, etc.) that are supervised or written by the original creator9s), yet they treat the adaptation as a chance to take a new spin on their own concepts. With a franchise like Pocket Monsters, this seems like a huge wasted opportunity considering how vague the games are, but seeing as Game Freak embodies wasted opportunities (to appease a wider audience), it's not too hard to add that in as a possibility within the possibility of them having supervised the project.

I guess. "Most likely" doesn't mean much when we just don't know what their thought process on this kind of thing is. I'm saying that they have no reason not have Red appear and actually talk, be it in ORAS or another game. It would be a missed opportunity if they didn't do it here considering that there may never be another chance to show what happened to Red between the first two generations.
I agree.
 
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@FANG-TAN;
Mew wasn't on the Seven Isles. Faraway Island is a remote island jungle in Guyana. Lugia and Houou were found on the Seven Isles (Navel Rock), though.

Sevii Isles not Seven Isles, firstly there's more than Seven.
And your confusing 2 sources, the diary on Cinabar refers to them discovering mew in Guyana, when you years later meet Mew, that's not in Guyana.
 
Point B: The PokeDex entries don't actually mean anything in universe. They're a classic example of Gameplay and Story Segregation. We know that because well the PokeDex entries often make little sense. Besides they often contradict things. Banette for instance according to it's Pokedex is some sort of living doll but we know that's not true because it's an actual species. It evolves from Shuppet and that can breed.
Gameplay and story segregation means that things like the Pokedex's claims are true (though I think a lot of the information is simply popular myth) and game mechanics that contradict it, like breeding, are things that invoke a suspension of disbelief. I'm not really sure why you're citing that trope to discount the Pokedex entries when that generally would confirm it given that the Pokedex is hardly a gameplay element the way breeding is.
 
Sevii Isles not Seven Isles, firstly there's more than Seven.
@Oras My own equally valid English translation of the original Japanese name, "Nanashima" (yes, they do, in fact, exist). The localized name "Sevii Islands" also echo the "seven" naming scheme (which references the number of days that it took for those island commmunities to be built, not the number of islands!), so I'm not even gonna get into this pointless argument.

And your confusing 2 sources, the diary on Cinabar refers to them discovering mew in Guyana, when you years later meet Mew, that's not in Guyana.
No, I'm not. Faraway Island even has a note left as a signpost by Fuji that's slightly faded away, which corresponds to the events chronicled in the diary entries.

fHLA57D.png


The English localization was this:

"The writing is fading as if it was
written a long time ago…

…ber, 6th day
If any human…sets foot here…
again…et it be a kindhearted pers…
…ith that hope, I depar…”
"

Which is mostly similar other than the month being ambiguous in the original Japanese version (-gatsu being a counter for months, while the English version implies only months ending in ber) and also removing remnants of Fuji's signature. You meet Mew "years laters" on the same island Fuji met Mew on in the diary entries. :/
 
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It was made very clear in Platinum that Cynthia didn't even know Arceus' name, nor did anyone else in those games. So why would any of the regional professors have known about it then? For all intents and purposes, Arceus was discovered in the Sinjoh Ruins event. The Pokédex entries being viewable in DPPt is just a gameplay element.

And how do you make sense of Mewtwo preceding Mew in the Pokédex? Not to mention that there was no evidence that Professor Oak knew of either one of them. As per Origins, he did not know their names before Red helped him connect the dots.

This is wrong, Arceus is mentioned by its name in the library after you bring Arceus from Movie 12 event. The Hiker who tells you the story seems to have learned Arceus’ name from his journey and/or old sources. In Sinjoh event, Cynthia also speaks about ancient people who knew about Arceus. Besides, the name itself could be invented by people. About Mewtwo and Mew, the former could be preceding on list simply because Mew is an event Pokemon. Also, I don’t think Origins is 100% accurate to games’ universe. Notice how Oak in games tells you that you have perfect Pokedex only when you have 150 Pokemon…He must know there are 150 of them in Kanto Pokedex.

Basically: Why did Team Rocket just give up on Mega Evolution? Wouldn't that have been the perfect way to pique Giovanni's interest? The Lake of Rage experiment definitely had potential (giving Team Rocket easy access to evolved Pokémon), but compared to Mega Evolution (which isn't attainable by any means other than Mega Stones), it's a step back.

And another question: You assume that the laser experiment would need to have happened prior to the FRLG events. So why did Team Rocket just leave the islands? You don't think that an ORAS Sevii Islands plot would be set before the FRLG one, do you? You mentioned a flashback, so I guess you don't. Either way, I suppose that a prequel isn't outside the realm of possibilities, but I'd be surprised if Game Freak did that; it would limit the Sevii Islands' potential.

I am not saying that Team Rocket's involvement can't possibly make sense. But would it add to the story? I don't think so. I think their inclusion would detract from the potential new characters, which I envision as being the Pokémon Lab team.

Similar question will raise after ORAS are released. Assuming trainers like for example Steven will use Mega Evolution in those games, why they gave up on it in B2W2 ?

Team Rocket could give up on because of having Key Stone destroyed during overprocessing it or maybe by having it taken by Magma/Aqua with help of player. However, before that happened, they would manage to retrieve information essential for Lake of Rage project.

And yes, I’m assuming ORAS Sevii events would happen after FRLG ones. It would be explained that during FRLG events, they weren’t looking only for Ruby and Sapphire gems, but also for Key Stone (only the most trusted members knew about that and kept the secret). After Red beat them, they left islands, but returned soon knowing Red is no more around. During ORAS they would succeed in finding Key Stone.

Point A: We do know for a fact that Pokemon like Aggron and Abomasnow existed long before their respective debuts (in universe). The ultimate weapon flashback showed quite a few species in fact.

Point B: The PokeDex entries don't actually mean anything in universe. They're a classic example of Gameplay and Story Segregation. We know that because well the PokeDex entries often make little sense. Besides they often contradict things. Banette for instance according to it's Pokedex is some sort of living doll but we know that's not true because it's an actual species. It evolves from Shuppet and that can breed.

A: In first sentence I was talking about that Pokemon like Deoxys shouldn’t be created during the gameplay, your point isn’t referring to that. But for second sentence, Pokemon that existed before their debut can be explained that they weren’t native to regions first introduced, hence they weren’t described in regional Pokedexes. National Pokedexes are just retcons including all Pokemon introduced so far.
B: There can be some false information put in Pokedex to show that games universe has some myths associated with specific Pokemon.
 
This tangential discussion about Origins is getting a bit long-winded, if to be honest. I am not sure it's relevant to the thread.

FANG-TAN said:
and had a great time talking to them, particularly Toshiaki Okuno (one of the head animation producers at OLM that works on the mainstream anime).
According to ANN, his last Pokémon-related work was Movie 12, and he's never worked on the anime itself (just some of the movies and the Mystery Dungeon specials). You have a point that he didn't work on Origins, but I wouldn't use his name as evidence of anything.

Didn't he have a large hand in producing films like the Deoxys movie, where Rayquaza acted totally out-of-character from its game counterpart? I don't think he has problems with artistic liberty.
No, he didn't. The movies just credit him under Original Concept or Original Score. The Mewtwo and Raikou specials had him listed under Music Composition, but I'm pretty sure that's a reference to his game work.

Masuda rarely seems to prioritize building the world of the games, but I don't see any evidence that he supports other canons. I think that he's only ever posted blog entries about the movies in the context of their distributions.

and he tweets about random mundane things like watching the Japanese dub of Frozen, so who's to say it isn't just him tweeting about having a great time talking with the anime staff during a possibly mundane meeting?
It's a possibility, but I don't see how his tweeting about mundane things means that he also meets important people from other companies to discuss mundane things.

Also, if he was meeting with OLM to discuss another Origin adaptation, why just OLM and not the other two animation studios that were responsible for its production?
It was a single meeting. If they were just discussing a concept, I don't think that the other two studios needed to be involved. Judging from the order of the listings in the credits, OLM had the most influence on Origins.

And why not? They were in charge of the B2W2 animated trailer and they were part of The Origin collaboration, so they're not completely against making an animated feature that's actually closer to the source material.
That doesn't mean that it was their idea rather than Game Freak's or at least TPCi's.

Not to mention, you're confusing the entire company for the staff employed to make the questionable and nonsensical decisions of the regular anime. The Origin had different writers in charge of the screenplay, and with two other studios involved, a different approach in adaptation is expected.
I'm aware of that. Otherwise I wouldn't give Origins much credit.

Game Freak as a corporate company probably didn't care about whether or not it was faithful to their vision as long as it was getting attention.
But what makes you so sure that they didn't care?

If Xebec/Production I.G./OLM intended The Origin to be an extremely special adaptation with Game Freak overseeing the production, and contained new details about the original games that are now integrated to the games' mainstream canon, is there any reason why they never bothered to state this? Wouldn't that been beneficial to ratings, and consequentially, sales?
You know as well as I do that most people would be indifferent to such a statement, if not confused by it. Nothing about Origins screams "different canon", so the explanation you're thinking of would have only made a difference for a minority of fans us such as ourselves. "To the people who played Red and Green" was all they needed to say. I do recall that we both thought Game Freak had some role in the special when it was first announced, so even if you've changed your mind, you can't say that the ratings were hurt by the lack of confirmation regarding Game Freak's supervision.

shiny_magikarp said:
This is wrong, Arceus is mentioned by its name in the library after you bring Arceus from Movie 12 event. The Hiker who tells you the story seems to have learned Arceus’ name from his journey and/or old sources. In Sinjoh event, Cynthia also speaks about ancient people who knew about Arceus.
None of this changes the fact that neither Cynthia nor Cyrus knew Arceus' name during the main story. The Hiker added the information to the library. Do you really believe that Arceus already had a Pokédex entry? There is a big difference between old sources, which have been lost to time or have become very difficult to find, and a modern encyclopedia.

Similar question will raise after ORAS are released. Assuming trainers like for example Steven will use Mega Evolution in those games, why they gave up on it in B2W2 ?
The World Tournament is not canon, as evidenced by the lack of aging. We don't know if Steven will have access to Mega Evolution, anyway.

About Mewtwo and Mew, the former could be preceding on list simply because Mew is an event Pokemon. Also, I don’t think Origins is 100% accurate to games’ universe. Notice how Oak in games tells you that you have perfect Pokedex only when you have 150 Pokemon…He must know there are 150 of them in Kanto Pokedex.
These are gameplay elements. They don't necessarily mean anything in the context of the story.
 
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This tangential discussion about Origins is getting a bit long-winded, if to be honest. I am not sure it's relevant to the thread.
It sort of is. Depending on whether or not The Origin is actually relevant to the game's canon, it could affect the ORAS post-game in a variety of ways, especially if takes place right after or concurrently to Red's post-game in FRLG. If he does appear physically and if they're taking The Origin into account, he could have a widely different Pokemon team based on that special during his appearance on the islands, for instance. Though it is also sort of derailing the thread, so I'll stop replying about this particular topic after this.

According to ANN, his last Pokémon-related work was Movie 12, and he's never worked on the anime itself (just some of the movies and the Mystery Dungeon specials). You have a point that he didn't work on Origins, but I wouldn't use his name as evidence of anything.

No, he didn't. The movies just credit him under Original Concept or Original Score. The Mewtwo and Raikou specials had him listed under Music Composition, but I'm pretty sure that's a reference to his game work.

Masuda rarely seems to prioritize building the world of the games, but I don't see any evidence that he supports other canons. I think that he's only ever posted blog entries about the movies in the context of their distributions.

It's a possibility, but I don't see how his tweeting about mundane things means that he also meets important people from other companies to discuss mundane things.
Then it could have literally been about anything then. It's not out of the ordinary for a merchandise-driven show to consult higher-ups related to the source material in regards to marketing, distribution, business, and the like. Not having semi-regular communication would actually be weird, I think.

It was a single meeting. If they were just discussing a concept, I don't think that the other two studios needed to be involved. Judging from the order of the listings in the credits, OLM had the most influence on Origins.
I'm actually not sure if listing order in credits are indicative of which studio had the most influence (within the actual episodes). For the record, ANN lists it's credits in alphabetical order.

That doesn't mean that it was their idea rather than Game Freak's or at least TPCi's.
That's exactly what I'm saying, though. There's no way to know for sure. A faithful adaptation does not necessarily mean input from the original scenario writers, nor does it mean there wasn't input at all. There are a fair amount of adaptations that have little-to-no input from the original creators, and ones that do. There's really nothing to confirm if Pocket Monsters The Origin is the latter, especially since these things are usually said... (and one can make a fair assertive assumption of the former, but they can be pretty secretive about it.)

But what makes you so sure that they didn't care?

I'm not gonna generalize the company and say this with 100% certainty, but I've seen creators that have openly expressed their disapproval of certain adaptations of their works. They're either passionate about them enough to go through the effort of abolishing them, or simply express their dislike since those "bad" adaptations are still giving them royalties. I don't want to paint Game Freak as a careless and "greedy" company, so I like to think of them as playing it safe (as I said before, they've stuck to just making Pocket Monsters for over a decade because it guarantees profit and longevity). If any of the employees or scenario writers dislike the concept of alternate canons that contribute to their money flow, I certainly haven't heard of it.

And...

You know as well as I do that most people would be indifferent to such a statement, if not confused by it. Nothing about Origins screams "different canon", so the explanation you're thinking of would have only made a difference for a minority of fans us such as ourselves. "To the people who played Red and Green" was all they needed to say. I do recall that we both thought Game Freak had some role in the special when it was first announced, so even if you've changed your mind, you can't say that the ratings were hurt by the lack of confirmation regarding Game Freak's supervision.

There's a lot of things in the special that don't align with the source material anyway and borders around "alternate interpretation" rather than expansion, which is part of the reason why I dropped the whole "Game Freak might have had some input" thing right when it aired. The Origin OVA being advertised as "for the people who played Red and Green" is really no different from, say, the Tales of Symphonia OVA being advertised as "for the fans who played Tales of Symphonia" and then remixing the plot and abridging it into a handful of episodes. Doesn't really mean a thing - they're adaptations of those select video games, so they're obviously going to try to grab the attention of the existing fans. If anyone at Game Freak said "Everything in this special is totally what we had in mind when designing the game" on Twitter or something, then it would be another story, but they never did.

I think the only way any of their supposed "input" could be confirmed is in a ORAS post-game quest on the Seven Isles. If it's indeed Broad Strokes, then Red would appear with a team similar to the team in The Origin; that is, Mega Lizardon X, Thunders, and he'll possibly still possess all of the Kantou legendaries. Whatever causes him to release those monsters back into the wild would be explained in such this aforementioned quest. I think this will be a bit much to focus on though, given that I'd also want a fairly large focus on a Deoxys subplot if anything.
 
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Guys, this is not the place to discuss the Pokémon: The Origin series of specials, Junichi Masuda's involvement in non-video game aspects of the franchise or about whether certain aspects of the franchise are considered canon or not. This thread is simply about the possibility of the Sevii Islands appearing in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire
 
I honestly don't think they're gonna appear. I mean, they could, which could mean... A link to Kanto... and then Johto.... Mother of god....
 
I'm just going to reply to the points that are directly relevant to the thread.

FANG-TAN said:
If he does appear physically and if they're taking The Origin into account, he could have a widely different Pokemon team based on that special during his appearance on the islands, for instance.
His Snorlax, Lapras and Pikachu were shown; the only Pokémon he used more than once in the special were Charizard and Jolteon. You could say that Pikachu replacing Jolteon might be noticeable, but it wouldn't be that big a difference. What would be more different would be the lack of Blastoise and Venusaur, but I've been thinking since at least FRLG that those Pokémon originally belonged to Blue and Leaf. That's another thing that should be explained.

If it's indeed Broad Strokes, then Red would appear with a team similar to the team in The Origin; that is, Mega Lizardon X, Thunders, and he'll possibly still possess all of the Kantou legendaries.
If he talked, used Mega Charizard X and at least mentioned having completed the Kanto Pokédex, that would be enough confirmation for me.

And before anyone says that Red not using Mega Charizard X in the Mt. Silver battle implies that he never had one, I disagree. There are two possibilities:

1. He had the decency not to use it against a trainer who didn't have access to Mega Evolution.
2. His personality shift took a strain on his bond with his Pokémon.

Of course, Mega Evolution wasn't something that stood in the back of Game Freak's minds in previous generations. But giving Red access to Mega Evolution is not necessarily a retcon due to how mysterious he became after Generation I. My motto is: "Rather than changing the established past, reveal the unknown parts."
 
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I’m just going to reply one last time, it’s relevant because I want to use this example to justify reasoning about possible Sevii and Deoxys event in ORAS.

None of this changes the fact that neither Cynthia nor Cyrus knew Arceus' name during the main story. The Hiker added the information to the library. Do you really believe that Arceus already had a Pokédex entry? There is a big difference between old sources, which have been lost to time or have become very difficult to find, and a modern encyclopedia.

But modern encyclopedias are made with references to old sources. If some Hiker could gain knowledge about Arceus, professor could too. And just because Cynthia or Cyrus didn’t mention Arceus’ name, doesn’t mean they didn’t know it. How do you except them to mention name of event Pokemon in main story, especially the one which wasn’t officially revealed at the time of Platinum release? Theoretically, professor could tell you its name, but there is no option to ask him.

Basing on this, I think Deoxys will exist prior to ORAS events, like any other Pokemon existed prior to game it was featured in. It will have Pokedex entry because of existing long enough in game universe to gain some basic information about it. But I don’t think its name will be mentioned directly. At least not without getting Deoxys from event. Before event, I think laser beam cutscene would explain how meteorite was radiated and how Mega Stones were created in that way. It would be also hinted that some mysterious Pokemon was created during the process, but explanation what Pokemon was that will be available only after getting event Deoxys. I realize that it would be easy to guess it was Deoxys but in the same way, Celebi’s name wasn’t revealed in Ilex Forest until player brought event Celebi there.
 
You guys are arguing Arceus, but isn't Genesect a better case study here? Its back story is that its a Team Plasma modified Pokemon yet it has pre-existing entries. There's also Rotom who was evidently discovered by Charon, named the species, but then apparently kept it secret....yet our entry has the exact same name.
 
shiny_magikarp said:
If some Hiker could gain knowledge about Arceus, professor could too. And just because Cynthia or Cyrus didn’t mention Arceus’ name, doesn’t mean they didn’t know it. How do you except them to mention name of event Pokemon in main story, especially the one which wasn’t officially revealed at the time of Platinum release? Theoretically, professor could tell you its name, but there is no option to ask him.

Cynthia: "This cave painting...It's always been described this way. The light in the center represents either Dialga or Palkia appearing at the Spear Pillar. The three lights around it were thought to be Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf. May I continue? But, then, I realized that there may be another way of interpreting this. Could this triangle of lights actually represent a different trio? Could they be Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina instead? And the large light at their center. Does it represent something else? Could it be what created this world of ours? May I continue for a little bit longer? Thank you for listening to my theory. Do you know of the ancient Plates they find all over Sinnoh? One of them had this engraved on it. 'Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One.' I think this quote, too, points to the presence of another Pokémon. A Pokémon even more powerful than Dialga or Palkia."

She obviously didn't know Arceus' name and was only speculating about its existence. Considering that she was given a Pokédex by Professor Rowan, this all but confirms that the regional professors didn't know about Arceus, either.

The Outrage said:
You guys are arguing Arceus, but isn't Genesect a better case study here? Its back story is that its a Team Plasma modified Pokemon yet it has pre-existing entries. There's also Rotom who was evidently discovered by Charon, named the species, but then apparently kept it secret....yet our entry has the exact same name.
Genesect lacks references involving researchers, and we don't know when exactly it was modified. But you're right about Rotom:

Rowan: "A Pokémon that slips into electric appliances, you say... Hmm... That is somewhat off from what I've heard about it. Hmm... This is what I've heard. Long ago, there was a Pokémon that merged with a toy robot. Should that Pokémon be recognized as a new species or not... Debates over the issue were about to start when they were rendered moot. The very topic of discussion--the Pokémon-infused robot--disappeared... Anyway, this Rotom... What an interesting Pokémon. So, you say it enters an appliance and essentially merges with the device. In the process, it may also learn new moves. In a way, I suppose it could be thought of as a mechanical Pokémon. Hmm...! Though it is utterly unique, it is undeniably a form of Pokémon. Fine, fine, so be it! No matter how old one gets, there will always be new Pokémon discoveries!"

The event was Rowan confirming Rotom's existence.
 
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Cynthia: "This cave painting...It's always been described this way. The light in the center represents either Dialga or Palkia appearing at the Spear Pillar. The three lights around it were thought to be Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf. May I continue? But, then, I realized that there may be another way of interpreting this. Could this triangle of lights actually represent a different trio? Could they be Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina instead? And the large light at their center. Does it represent something else? Could it be what created this world of ours? May I continue for a little bit longer? Thank you for listening to my theory. Do you know of the ancient Plates they find all over Sinnoh? One of them had this engraved on it. 'Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One.' I think this quote, too, points to the presence of another Pokémon. A Pokémon even more powerful than Dialga or Palkia."

She obviously didn't know Arceus' name and was only speculating about its existence. Considering that she was given a Pokédex by Professor Rowan, this all but confirms that the regional professors didn't know about Arceus, either.

Thank you for ignoring the point about not revealing event Pokemon name during the story.

The Outrage said:
You guys are arguing Arceus, but isn't Genesect a better case study here? Its back story is that its a Team Plasma modified Pokemon yet it has pre-existing entries. There's also Rotom who was evidently discovered by Charon, named the species, but then apparently kept it secret....yet our entry has the exact same name.
Genesect lacks references involving researchers, and we don't know when exactly it was modified. But you're right about Rotom:

Rowan: "A Pokémon that slips into electric appliances, you say... Hmm... That is somewhat off from what I've heard about it. Hmm... This is what I've heard. Long ago, there was a Pokémon that merged with a toy robot. Should that Pokémon be recognized as a new species or not... Debates over the issue were about to start when they were rendered moot. The very topic of discussion--the Pokémon-infused robot--disappeared... Anyway, this Rotom... What an interesting Pokémon. So, you say it enters an appliance and essentially merges with the device. In the process, it may also learn new moves. In a way, I suppose it could be thought of as a mechanical Pokémon. Hmm...! Though it is utterly unique, it is undeniably a form of Pokémon. Fine, fine, so be it! No matter how old one gets, there will always be new Pokémon discoveries!"

The event was Rowan confirming Rotom's existence.

As far as Rotom is concerned, it still existed prior to game’s plot, which I assume Deoxys would also in ORAS. Rowan could be not the only professor to work on Pokedex, so someone else could put the data, which Rowan didn’t know about because no trainer registered Rotom by the Pokedex yet. Data could be added by someone who found Charon’s notes and also met Rotom during the time it escaped from Charon. I’m done with this subject because I don’t want to turn it off-topic again.
 
shiny_magikarp said:
Thank you for ignoring the point about not revealing event Pokemon name during the story.
I didn't ignore that point, which I don't think makes much sense. I demonstrated that Cynthia didn't leave out Arceus' name just because; the whole way she was talking about it strongly implies that she was unsure of its existence. Only in the very end of Platinum did she start wondering if her understanding might have been wrong.

As far as Rotom is concerned, it still existed prior to game’s plot, which I assume Deoxys would also in ORAS.
Rotom might have existed prior to its discovery, but the point is that it didn't have to. The Pokédex entry couldn't have existed prior to the event, anyway. That is why I don't see why Deoxys couldn't be created during ORAS.
 
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@Silktree;
Still don't see how Genesect could have a dex entry. It's implied to at least be recent enough that N was able to put a halt in its production when he rose to power in Team Plasma (probably after his coronation?). I doubt Ghetsis would have advertised his super secret insect weapon.
 
The Outrage said:
Still don't see how Genesect could have a dex entry. It's implied to at least be recent enough that N was able to put a halt in its production when he rose to power in Team Plasma (probably after his coronation?). I doubt Ghetsis would have advertised his super secret insect weapon.
I agree, but I think that Arceus is still a better example as we actually know what Cynthia knew or didn't know about it. I am not sure what even happened with Genesect. Did it escape? If so, Professor Juniper could have found out about it right before Black and White.

Let's try to breathe new life into the thread. I've said that I wouldn't like to see Team Rocket again as I don't see what good it would do to their story, but there is a character I'd like to see again at the risk of a retcon: Giovanni. I think that Game Freak mishandled him terribly in the HGSS event. Let's see his parting words in the original games:

Giovanni (Generation I) said:
Having lost, I cannot face my underlings! Team Rocket is finished forever! I will dedicate my life to the study of Pokémon! Let us meet again some day! Farewell!
Giovanni (FRLG) said:
Having lost in this fashion, I can't face my followers. I have betrayed their trust. As of today, Team Rocket is finished forever! As for myself, I shall dedicate my life to training again. Let us meet again someday! Farewell!
FRLG changed the dialogue by having Giovanni say that he would dedicate himself to training rather than studying, but otherwise, he still said that Team Rocket was finished forever. Now, let's see what HGSS added via Giovanni and Silver's conversation right after his loss to Red:
Giovanni (HGSS) said:
.................. One must acknowledge one's defeat before he can move on... I will go solo...for now... So that one day I will form a stronger organization!

Putting together the potential of many is how you produce a huge power... That's what an organization is... That's the strength of an organization! I failed...to make the best use of my subordinates' potential...! But you shall witness one day the revival of me and my Team Rocket!.................. One day, you will understand.
Basically, the only way to reconcile this with FRLG is that Giovanni outright lied to Red. Is that too weird? Perhaps not, but it makes him look pathetic. The Origins interpretation, in which Giovanni's inner thoughts confirmed that he was truly inspired by Red, makes so much more sense.

Let's see how else the HGSS event doesn't make sense:

1. It's a time travel event and yet it severely underutilizes Celebi's potential.
2. Celebi came out of nowhere, being a movie distribution. What is its origin? At least the Sinjoh Ruins event makes sense if we assume that it follows the Hall of Origin event. The HGSS Ilex Forest event isn't even plausibly related to the GS Ball event from Crystal.
3. Silver tells Giovanni "I will become strong! I will become a stronger man all by myself! All by myself!" but he only gets his first Pokémon three years later. Really?
4. Why did Celebi need to get involved, anyway? Would it have been so bad if Giovanni had gone to Goldenrod and lost to Ethan/Lyra there?

Of course, my argument just goes to show that the event is a result of bad writing. It could be canon, but we shouldn't take that for granted as it's a movie-related event. Not only that, but for all we know Celebi didn't take the player to the past, but rather to a parallel universe where Giovanni disbanded Team Rocket out of cowardice rather than a more profound change.

What I'm getting at is that I'd like to see Giovanni on the Sevii Islands in a non-villainous role, so that he can finally get some character development. If anything from the older games should be retconned, it's the HGSS Giovanni event. Sure, Game Freak could also have Giovanni redeem himself in a future story set after HGSS, but I'd appreciate if if they acknowledged that the HGSS event should never have happened to begin with. I'd like to see him show interest in Mega Evolution, but not for selfish reasons. Perhaps he might see Mega Kangaskhan as a symbol for his hope to be worthy of his son some day.
 
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Personally, I would prefer it if any additional story details added into the hypothetical inclusion of the Sevii Islands focused on expanding the story and characters of Ruby/Sapphire, as opposed to other games in the franchise. Sure, there was a Team Rocket plot in the Sevii Islands, but that doesn't mean that there has to be one every time the archipelago returns.

For example, we know that Glacia trained in a different region before coming to the Hoenn region, so maybe we could meet her on Floe Island where it's revealed that she trained alongside Lorelei?
 
Personally, I would prefer it if any additional story details added into the hypothetical inclusion of the Sevii Islands focused on expanding the story and characters of Ruby/Sapphire, as opposed to other games in the franchise.
It shouldn't be one or the other. The Generation III characters will have the main story, which could give them expanded roles. I don't see more than a handful of them following the player to the Sevii Islands.

For example, we know that Glacia trained in a different region before coming to the Hoenn region, so maybe we could meet her on Floe Island where it's revealed that she trained alongside Lorelei?
Wouldn't that expand Lorelei's story, as well? Not that I would mind that at all, but it's a weird example to give after your first sentence.
 
It shouldn't be one or the other. The Generation III characters will have the main story, which could give them expanded roles. I don't see more than a handful of them following the player to the Sevii Islands.
I'd much prefer if that spilled into the Sevii Islands as opposed to the Sevii Islands continuing FRLG's story though. Maybe after the events of Sootopolis City, Team Magma/Aqua relocate there to try and launch a brand new plan (possibly revolving around Mt. Ember in a similar vein to Mt. Chimney?).

For example, we know that Glacia trained in a different region before coming to the Hoenn region, so maybe we could meet her on Floe Island where it's revealed that she trained alongside Lorelei?
Wouldn't that expand Lorelei's story, as well? Not that I would mind that at all, but it's a weird example to give after your first sentence.
Sure, Lorelei would gain from such a thing as well, but as Glacia is a character the players would meet and interact with in the games, she would gain the most out of it. Considering how Lorelei's home is on Floe Island, it would be weird for her to not at least be referenced if the player could go there.
 
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