Shooting at Ohio High School: One Dead, Four Injured

[Almonds]

What a thoughtless, reductionist attitude. I agree with Bikini MIltank, too often there's almost a sense from some people (illustrated perfectly by the quote above) that the horrible acts emotionally/mentally unhinged people commit shows a sort of weakness of character that implies they deserved to be bullied/abused all along. Ironically, this kind of attitude is exactly what drives these people to do such things. Society essentially condemns them for doing exactly what they've been conditioned to do.

I never said he deserved to be bullied. But it's his fault he didn't learn to cope with it. Call me a thoughtless twat, but dealing with it is a good way to help stop it.

As for "this kind of attitude is what drives people to do these things": I'm not the one constantly berating and harming him for no reason, his bullies are. I did direct insults at him, obviously, but that's because he shot up a high school and is directly responsible for the deaths of I believe 3 or 4 people. I'm not the same as the sadistic pricks who drove him to think this was the answer. He messed up, big time.

Exactly what I was saying above - "bullying is natural, kids should be taught to toughen up and cope with it". Lets not, you know, try to put a stop to it altogether.

Did I ever say that people shouldn't try to stop it? No, I just said that it was easier to learn to and teach others to cope with it. Which it is. People who are able to help put a stop to the problem that fundementally causes all of this should by all means do what they can. Quit twisting my words.

Okay, what I'm about to say isn't directly related to the shooting here, but about bullying in general. Ya know, bullying isn't really something that can be easily coped with it. Try being bullyed yourself and SEE how it can really hurt you. HEAR it yourself when you try to ask for help and people just tell you to toughen up and deal with it yourself. All in all, bullying should stop - however much you dislike another person, you need to learn to work as a group and treat him/her as another equal - not just banish from your own peer group.

And of course, do you realize the bullying can boomerang back at you? You bully someone - you're going to be the one left alone in the society when you grow up. Anybody can help those who have been bullied, but nobody wants to help bullies.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Okay, what I'm about to say isn't directly related to the shooting here, but about bullying in general. Ya know, bullying isn't really something that can be easily coped with it. Try being bullyed yourself and SEE how it can really hurt you. HEAR it yourself when you try to ask for help and people just tell you to toughen up and deal with it yourself. All in all, bullying should stop - however much you dislike another person, you need to learn to work as a group and treat him/her as another equal - not just banish from your own peer group.

I never was bullied very much before my mom pulled me out of school, I'll just put that out there first of all. But anyway, I never said it was easy to cope with it, just easier than trying to stop the problem altogether. It isn't easy, period.

HEAR it yourself when you try to ask for help and people just tell you to toughen up and deal with it yourself.

I remind you of my exact wording:

the more practical solution to the problem is learning, and teaching others, to cope with it.

Note the "teaching others" part. I never said that bluntly telling people to "man up and deal with it" was the answer, because it isn't.

And of course, do you realize the bullying can boomerang back at you? You bully someone - you're going to be the one left alone in the society when you grow up. Anybody can help those who have been bullied, but nobody wants to help bullies.

Yes, I'm aware of that. But that's after school. I was just talking about what could be done during the school years.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Schools do not accept students manning up and retaliate on a bully as a good solution (in fact, it'll only lead to detection/suspension/exposion), and they advised the best way to stop bullying is by telling your parents, teachers, and higher officials; in other words, tattle on them. Of course, this would mean that the bully will try to kill you the next time you meet as what my mother told me, and she suggested you have to ignore the bullies all together in order for them to go away.

 

[Vhazhiphor]

Okay, what I'm about to say isn't directly related to the shooting here, but about bullying in general. Ya know, bullying isn't really something that can be easily coped with it. Try being bullyed yourself and SEE how it can really hurt you. HEAR it yourself when you try to ask for help and people just tell you to toughen up and deal with it yourself. All in all, bullying should stop - however much you dislike another person, you need to learn to work as a group and treat him/her as another equal - not just banish from your own peer group.

And of course, do you realize the bullying can boomerang back at you? You bully someone - you're going to be the one left alone in the society when you grow up. Anybody can help those who have been bullied, but nobody wants to help bullies.

Except some of us don't see it that way, because some of us were bullied ourselves, and were told to toughen up and deal with it, and we did, and the bullies stopped. It varies from person to person; maybe you can't deal with it on your own, but it doesn't mean that won't work for some other kid. There's no one-size-fits-all solution here.

 

[Almonds]

Schools do not accept students manning up and retaliate on a bully as a good solution (in fact, it'll only lead to detection/suspension/exposion), and they advised the best way to stop bullying is by telling your parents, teachers, and higher officials; in other words, tattle on them. Of course, this would mean that the bully will try to kill you the next time you meet as what my mother told me, and she suggested you have to ignore the bullies all together in order for them to go away.

This. You have to get all the help you need. Bullying isn't something that can be solved alone. And even though the bullies might threaten to kill you for telling, they won't really kill you anyways because that means being in jail for the rest of their lives - or in some countries, death penalties themselves. Bullies themselves don't have the guts to kill anyone - they're just being high-and-mighty on the outside.

Okay, what I'm about to say isn't directly related to the shooting here, but about bullying in general. Ya know, bullying isn't really something that can be easily coped with it. Try being bullyed yourself and SEE how it can really hurt you. HEAR it yourself when you try to ask for help and people just tell you to toughen up and deal with it yourself. All in all, bullying should stop - however much you dislike another person, you need to learn to work as a group and treat him/her as another equal - not just banish from your own peer group.

And of course, do you realize the bullying can boomerang back at you? You bully someone - you're going to be the one left alone in the society when you grow up. Anybody can help those who have been bullied, but nobody wants to help bullies.

Except some of us don't see it that way, because some of us were bullied ourselves, and were told to toughen up and deal with it, and we did, and the bullies stopped. It varies from person to person; maybe you can't deal with it on your own, but it doesn't mean that won't work for some other kid. There's no one-size-fits-all solution here.

In some cases, the more you toughen up, the worse the bullying becomes. "Toughen up and Deal with it" - personally, that's the worst thing to say to someone being bullied - nobody gets bullied because they are "weak". It's the bully's problem picking on a kid - and really, why do you want to bully someone anyway? There are so many questions that the answers are really difficult to answer.

Do bullies really feel satisfied with someone being in pain because of them?
Do they really think they're being superior to the bullied kid?
What do they gain from bullying? Wut, is there a Nobel Prize for the best bully in the world?

Oh, and recently in my country, a teenager committed suicide because of severe bullying - and this resulted in a national commotion. The bullies have been sentenced to prison, even though they are young and underage. This judgment had never happened before and personally, I think this is the right choice.

But before the bullied kid kills theirselves, or kills everyone else, the situation must be taken seriously and solved - otherwise, the results turn out deadly dangerous, and there's no way to turn back time.

 

[Vhazhiphor]

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, so please don't take this the wrong way. But you say that bullies are only high and mighty on the outside, yet standing up to them only makes things worse?

I can't answer your questions with anything other than mere opinion, so I won't do it. I'm sure there's other people more qualified to do that, even if most of them sound full of it to me, what do I know.

I was bullied a few times, but three of them really stick out. The first time, my dad told me that I had his permission to beat the kid up if he kept pushing me around, he'd deal with the school later if it came to that.. So I told the kid, "my dad gave me permission to beat you up." And suddenly he wanted to be friends.

Another time years later, I was patient, I ignored it, I told teachers and parents, but the kid never stopped. You know when it stopped? He threw a book at my face. In class. And I beat his head against the wall. He left our school that year, and the teachers were grateful he left, since all he did was go around school and pick on other kids. I didn't get rewarded, of course. But no punishment.

And the last time, which was near the end of elementary/primary school, I just tried to ignore them, and didn't stand up to them of anything. And they didn't stop. Ever. Not until we graduated and I left for a different school. [Edit: The reason I grit my teeth and took it? My teacher that year was an ass and threatened to punish me, even suspend me if I fought back. So yeah.]

Does this mean it'll work for everyone? No. But it worked for my dad, and it worked for me, and if it happens to my son, I'll give him the same advice. "Stand up for yourself". Maybe it works for some people. I won't say it works for everyone, but you can't really say it's "the worst thing to say", because for some people, in some cases, it might work.

My father used to say that when he was in school, if two kids had a problem with each other, they'd go to the gym teacher and get a pair of gloves, and beat each other up in the boxing ring after school. They were friends again the next day. Now compare kids back in those days (dad's dead now, but he'd be 70 years old if he wasn't), and kids today. Compare the kids that beat each other up and went rabbit hunting with rifles after school, and the kids we have now. Personally I think all of this soft stuff is ruining our youth.

But hey, I'm just one guy. I may be wrong.

 

[Dorothy]

Shooting up a school does not constitute standing up for oneself.

 

[Vhazhiphor]

Never said it did. I was just replying to the bullying arguments.

 

[Steelrush]

I see bullies in a similar context as annoying insects, except they're MUCH HARDER to eliminate for society. They should all be locked up in prisons as brutal as the ones in North Korea, and be used as test dummies for their weapon experiments.

Sorry if I sound crazy, but I doubt anyone likes major inconveniences to the good people of our world. Although I like animals, bullies are the exception. I know I wouldn't want to own one as a pet.

One thing I don't get, if they don't allow animals at schools, why do bullies get to go in them?

 

[GengarEatBanana]

Guys, please stay on topic. This is a place to discuss the sad events that have occured at this high school, not a place to argue over the what's the best way to prevent bullying.

Please remember to stay on topic within this thread.

 

[Lilac Hill]

Guys, please stay on topic. This is a place to discuss the sad events that have occured at this high school, not a place to argue over the what's the best way to prevent bullying.

Please remember to stay on topic within this thread.

No logical extensions allowed?

Five cookies says the shooter was a selfish prick who was bullied a bunch and couldn't figure out how to deal with it and had no regard for other human lives just like everyone else who pulls this kind of crap.

Ten anti-gun control rallies says that the US will never introduce an obviously necessary law.

You seem to be under the impression that this child was able to obtain his firearm legally.

You seem to be happy to make assumptions.

 

[Dorothy]

Five cookies says the shooter was a selfish prick who was bullied a bunch and couldn't figure out how to deal with it and had no regard for other human lives just like everyone else who pulls this kind of crap.

Ten anti-gun control rallies says that the US will never introduce an obviously necessary law.

You seem to be under the impression that this child was able to obtain his firearm legally.

You seem to be happy to make assumptions.

And you seem happy to imply things.

 

[Lilac Hill]

And you seem happy to imply things.

Do you seriously believe that he would have been able to obtain that gun if the US had the kind of logical and reasonable tight gun control that many other countries, such as mine, enjoy?

 

[Caitlin]

And you seem happy to imply things.

Do you seriously believe that he would have been able to obtain that gun if the US had the kind of logical and reasonable tight gun control that many other countries, such as mine, enjoy?

Australia may not have a large black market on illegal firearms, but you can be absolutely certain that the USA would. Australia (and to a lesser extent the UK) has a natural barrier for entry, an ocean. The USA shares a border with Mexico, where illegal firearms are handed around like candy. They spill into the USA all the time. Did you study about the prohibition era we had? And our current drug wars as well. That right there will tell you that stricter gun control or an outright ban won't work. It's an unfortunate side-effect of America's culture of (sometimes civil, mostly not) disobedience.

I see bullies in a similar context as annoying insects, except they're MUCH HARDER to eliminate for society. They should all be locked up in prisons as brutal as the ones in North Korea, and be used as test dummies for their weapon experiments.

Sorry if I sound crazy, but I doubt anyone likes major inconveniences to the good people of our world. Although I like animals, bullies are the exception. I know I wouldn't want to own one as a pet.

One thing I don't get, if they don't allow animals at schools, why do bullies get to go in them?

That is unreasonably harsh, sending schoolyard bullies to death camps. I mean... really? We've all bullied someone, every last one of us, whether we realise it or are willing to admit it or not. I'm sure you yourself have said hurtful things to someone when you were a kid for no good reason. So yeah, you do sound crazy. Delusional, almost.

And the reason they don't allow animals into school is because they're not capable (that we know of) of the complex thought patterns that take place in the human brain. They don't care about Shakespeare, they can't differentiate logarithmic equations and they can't communicate with us. Bullies can, they just have personal problems, problems that can be dealt with.

 

[Soulmaster]

How did I only just see this. This is terrible. again hoe do kids think of these things anyways??

 

[Dorothy]

And you seem happy to imply things.

Do you seriously believe that he would have been able to obtain that gun if the US had the kind of logical and reasonable tight gun control that many other countries, such as mine, enjoy?

Again, you seem to think that he got this gun legally. Obviously, he would have obtained the gun just as easily if the US had tighter gun control laws.

 

[jda95]

Regardless of whether the kid legally obtained the gun or not, the fact of the matter is that there is a clear link between the legality of firearms in the United States (and their subsequent abundance) and the amount of shooting incidents such as this one. You can argue all you want about where the guns came from but you can never ignore the evidence pointing to these inferences.

 

[Derier44]

School shootings, terrible tragedies that could easily prevented if some kids learned to have a bit of a head and heart. And I will agree with that if the US had tighter policies on firearms it would be much harder for these sorts of things to happen. One of the top ways guns are distributed is that someone buys a bunch of guns, with the licenses. Then he goes and files off the serial numbers and any form of identification on the gun. Then he sells them on the street to make a profit, simple as that. I would know, I dont live in the best of neighborhoods.

 

[Lilac Hill]

And you seem happy to imply things.

Do you seriously believe that he would have been able to obtain that gun if the US had the kind of logical and reasonable tight gun control that many other countries, such as mine, enjoy?

Again, you seem to think that he got this gun legally. Obviously, he would have obtained the gun just as easily if the US had tighter gun control laws.

I'm not going to discuss this with you if the only thing you're going to argue is that "He didn't get it legally therefore gun control laws are not needed".

That is absurd.

Australia may not have a large black market on illegal firearms, but you can be absolutely certain that the USA would. Australia (and to a lesser extent the UK) has a natural barrier for entry, an ocean. The USA shares a border with Mexico, where illegal firearms are handed around like candy. They spill into the USA all the time. Did you study about the prohibition era we had? And our current drug wars as well. That right there will tell you that stricter gun control or an outright ban won't work. It's an unfortunate side-effect of America's culture of (sometimes civil, mostly not) disobedience.

I am well aware of the prohibition era, and of the "drug war".

Have you considered looking north? Or perhaps west, to basically all of Europe?

They all have borders with another country. They all have strong regulations. They all have a far lower crime rate with firearm use than the US, and none of them have the regular massacres occuring at schools that the US has.

I cannot believe how many Americans are willing to ignore the reasons for this reoccuring disaster. How many school shootings do you need? How many people need to die?

Blaming it on a "culture of disobedience" when talking to an Australian is also amusing.

 

[蜃気楼]

Truly a tragedy indeed.