Should TPCI re-dub mewtwo strikes back?

[Team Gaara]

Personally, I would like a re-dub of the movie just so we could get a proper dub of it. I know it won't happen, as there is literally no reason for them to dub this, most likely because they would probably lose more money than gain, but it is something I would like to see.

I don't have a problem with the 4kids dub of movie itself, it's actually my favorite Pokemon movie as of now, but it was shocking to find out that the plot in movie I watched wasn't what the original movie was actually about. And I didn't find that out until either this or last year. And I personally would like to actually see it on screen rather than just read Bulbapedia for the story.

I liked the Minnesota Vikings joke, it used actual wit, something that would be lost in a TPCi redub. I don't think just anyone could have come up with that.

Are you joking here? I mean I laughed at that when I was a kid in the theater, but it's a stupid joke. It's not witty, it's literally just a random reference to a "real-world American thing". It's the type of joke they probably just put in to get a cheap laugh out of the adults dragged to the film by their kids.

I mean it doesn't destroy the movie or anything, but it being lost wouldn't be some horrid detraction either.

Have to agree, I don't see any actual wit with the joke. It was punny, yes, and doesn't do anything to harm the movie, but I don't think it was some mastermind joke that no one could have thought of (quite the opposite, imo). In fact, knowing 4kids, the line just seemed like another small way to make the movie seem more American to kids more than anything else.

 

[PockyAddict]

Nope, i would not like it, but you know what, I don't think they will do it for many reasons. It just ain't worth it really (money wise).

And although i like the 4kids dub, I have to agree with some of ya'll about that vikings joke. Haven't cared for it either, when since i saw it in 2000 and still don't.

 

[FANG-TAN]

If one takes off their nostalgia glasses for a moment here, they'd realize that if 4Kids definitely did something wrong during their tenure, it was the original movie. Even @Pokémon Master Ash agrees with this and he's a gigantic fan of the 4Kids dub.

Honestly, the only problem about a re-dub of this is nostalgia glasses. For instance, people prefer the horrid and cheesy Dragon Ball Z dub over the faithful Dragon Ball Kai dub because NOSTALGIA, and shoot down Masako Nozawa as a voice actor because their nostalgia dictates that Son Goku should have a "manly" voice. With things from my childhood like Digimon Adventure, if anyone ever decides to go back and redub that anime fathfully, I can imagine tearing my hair out at all the complaints because fans can't let go and accept that the Saturday-morning TV show from their childhood was actually graffiti over someone else's anime, and deserves a second shot at being portrayed properly whether it bothers their nostalgia or not. This is the problem that arises within pre-modern anime fandoms whenever companies decide to go back and re-do a series that had a shoddy dub, which sank into everyone's childhood.

Personally, I don't really care if TCPi re-dubs Mewtwo Strikes Back or not. I don't like the 4Kids dub of it, but I also really dislike the voices that TPCi provides, so I probably won't watch it anyway even if they decide to do a more faithful job. In my opinion, the Japanese version of this movie was one of the higher points of the casting performance within the entire anime, so TPCi will most likely sour that for me. They'll definitely replace "Mezase Pokemon Master 1998" with their own shoddy mix of the "Pokemon Theme" (I never liked TPCi's songs and never will) and completely axe my favorite Kaze to Issho ni. I mean, whatever they choose might be better than 4Kids' ULTIMATE PLAYLIST OF RANDOM MUSIC™ as an ending theme, but yeah, I still wouldn't enjoy that.

It'd be nice for international fans to experience something closer to the original plot of the movie if TPCi is willing to do that at all, but the western view of the movie is soooooo far off from the actual thing, I'm unable to *not* see how it'd cause an unnecessary rift in the anime portion of the international fanbase, even because of the voice acting alone. I'll just stick to my Japanese version. Plus, dubs are expensive and a "dub" already exists (as horrible as it is), so TPCi (being all about marketing rather than a company that thrives on fan input) probably deems it unnecessary. That being said:

I'd rather just have an official sub.

I second a legal subtitled release of the Japanese Kanzenban version of the movie, since they own the license to the movie and subtitles are inexpensive in the anime industry (this is a veeeery viable option, people!), even if that's probably never going to happen.

 

[Misty Calls Masquerain]

Have to agree, I don't see any actual wit with the joke. It was punny, yes, and doesn't do anything to harm the movie, but I don't think it was some mastermind joke that no one could have thought of (quite the opposite, imo). In fact, knowing 4kids, the line just seemed like another small way to make the movie seem more American to kids more than anything else.

I liked the Minnesota Vikings joke, it used actual wit, something that would be lost in a TPCi redub. I don't think just anyone could have come up with that.

Are you joking here? I mean I laughed at that when I was a kid in the theater, but it's a stupid joke. It's not witty, it's literally just a random reference to a "real-world American thing". It's the type of joke they probably just put in to get a cheap laugh out of the adults dragged to the film by their kids.

Maybe it's a "Stupid" joke, but I can't say it doesn't have a little cleverness behind it. I don't think I could have come up with it with only vikings to go off of. Also, back then, the anime used real world references, so it fits.

As stated before, it doesn't affect the movie, so I'm not really seeing the big deal.

 

[Team Gaara]

Maybe it's a "Stupid" joke, but I can't say it doesn't have a little cleverness behind it. I don't think I could have come up with it with only vikings to go off of. Also, back then, the anime used real world references, so it fits.

As stated before, it doesn't affect the movie, so I'm not really seeing the big deal.

I had no problem with the line. My main thing was the claim that TPCI lacked wit compared to 4kids with a line that, though clever, was not necessarily that witty, but I suppose that's off topic anyway.

 

[The Power of Pika]

The Minnesota Vikings are an American football team

That explains it. I only know of Australian footy.=/


Thanks for the explanation.

I second a legal subtitled release of the Japanese Kanzenban version of the movie, since they own the license to the movie and subtitles are inexpensive in the anime industry (this is a veeeery viable option, people!), even if that's probably never going to happen.

As much as I love the TPCI dub and would buy a redub, I would love a Japanese version option with subtitles legally if that was the only choice. I remember watching the Japanese version years ago and I really enjoyed it. So I'd third this.=3

 

[garrison-san]

Brother, My Brother is a good track, and it fit the situation, too.

I disagree with most of what you said, but on that point in particular. Even as a 14-year-old, that song insertion always stood out as weird to me. IMO, it was much, much too poppy to fit a scene comprised of bloodthirsty creatures clawing each other within an inch of their lives. It fit about as well here as it would have done pasted on top of the final showdown with the Efrafans in Watership Down.

 

[Bluelatios]

IMO people seem to be hating more of how 4kids handled it more than actually hating the movie in English. I mean, sure I can see why people don't like it, yet because I enjoyed the movie anyway I can't stay cross with 4kids. I can't say that Mewtwo being angry at the "hiearchy" of humanity and more typical of a villain was bad as much as it was a different perspective. I can't dis Brother my brother and the concept that fighting out of hatred is wrong either.

 

[garrison-san]

IMO people seem to be hating more of how 4kids handled it more than actually hating the movie in English.

I’m not entirely clear on what you’re getting at there, but if you’re suggesting that we should stop comparing the 4Kids dub to the Japanese original and judge it on its own merits…that doesn’t exactly work for me either. As a translation, it holds up pretty poorly (the spirit of the story is significantly altered, characterisations are rewritten, etc), but even with my minimal knowledge of the Japanese original back when it first came out, I found myself disappointed with it. There is some carelessness with regard to the most basic of the franchise's details (multiple pokemon species are misidentified), the songs feel very teen-poppy and out of place in such a murky and largely downbeat film, and the moral of the story is poorly expressed and thought-out. I’m aware that the dub intended the “fighting is bad” message to apply to fighting out of hatred rather than a regular pokemon battle, but it’s not as though they made much of an effort to distinguish between the two, or even account for why the latter was so acceptable in the first place (pokemon visibly suffer under both conditions, after all). Every single critical review I read of this film picked up on this point as being hypocritical, and with what they were given to go on I certainly can't blame them for that.

As low as my regard for the dub we got may be, to answer the thread's main question I can't help but feel that the ship has already sailed on this particular point. A more accurate dub of this film would have been nice, but it's fourteen years too late to be tinkering with that now. I'll stick with the Japanese original, subs or no - that way I can at least appreciate the superior music.

 

[Misty Calls Masquerain]

Brother, My Brother is a good track, and it fit the situation, too.

I disagree with most of what you said, but on that point in particular. Even as a 14-year-old, that song insertion always stood out as weird to me. IMO, it was much, much too poppy to fit a scene comprised of bloodthirsty creatures clawing each other within an inch of their lives. It fit about as well here as it would have done pasted on top of the final showdown with the Efrafans in Watership Down.

It really wasn't that poopy, and I focused more on the lyrics (which were touching and conveyed the message just fine) anyway.

 

[Bluelatios]

There were a couple errors, 2 of the credit songs were pop, and yet I forgive them because in the end I like both versions of the story. I'm still at a loss to see how the dub's message was not properly explained via the song, and we still have the greater overarching message of self-discovery and that life is wonderful and worth living.

At this point, it all seems to be a matter of opinion and perspective. Its right to some and wrong to others, just as it would be regarding whether TPCi redubs it.

 

[FANG-TAN]

It's not that the dub's message wasn't conveyed clearly with the song - it was - but that moral does not fit the franchise. The moral of the original story was that all living beings were equal whether born naturally, born as a human or Pokemon, or born in a tube. This moral does not contradict anything in the overall franchise - heck, even Black and White explore similar concepts that were found in the entire Mewtwo saga through N and his Plasma followers.

Whereas, the dub's "fighting = wrong" moral does not fit a franchise in which the focus is monster battling. It's contradictory and rather silly.

I have a hard time seeing what's so hard about dubbing an anime faithfully with everything intact. Eh. Either way, I just want a subbed release. The dubbed fans can have their nostalgia movie.

 

[Dogasu]

TPCi's version would be no better.

You can't say that for sure. TPCI has never "reversioned" a movie as extensively as 4Kids did with "Mewtwo Strikes Back" so chances are they'd produce a dub that is, at the very least, a more faithful adaption.

Not that I necessarily think that a TPCI dub is something that even has a tiny chance of even happening in the first place, mind you.

Brother, My Brother is a good track, and it fit the situation, too.
The Lazy Boy No Chew Stew was funny.
I liked the Minnesota Vikings joke, it used actual wit, something that would be lost in a TPCi redub. I don't think just anyone could have come up with that.
All of the songs used in the credits are good.
The fighting is wrong moral wasn't executed properly, but it is a good basic message for the movie.

You can like the English dub as it exists, changes and everything, but there are a lot of people for whom it's not good enough. The 4Kids dub made a lot of changes (whether or not you think those changes were good or bad is beside the point) and there are quite a number of us who would prefer a dub of the movie that's more faithful to the original. So when you ask "Isn't the 4Kids dub good enough?" then the answer is, for a lot of us, "no."

As for the others pointed out, I agree with some, and think the rest are nitpicking.

The comparison isn't a "list of everything that's wrong with the English dub." It's a "list of everything that's different between the English dub and the original Japanese version." It wouldn't be a very good comparison if I only listed the big changes and ignored all the little "nitpicky" ones.

Whereas, the dub's "fighting = wrong" moral does not fit a franchise in which the focus is monster battling.

The thing is...Nurse Joy does say "it's not right to force Pokémon to battle this way," implying that she recognizes the difference between the friendly sparring matches pokemon are known for and this rage-filled beatdown unfolding before her, but then both Misty and James come out with these sweeping "all fighting is wrong!" statements a few lines later that totally destroys any nuance the message may have had.

 

[Silktree]

The thing is...Nurse Joy does say "it's not right to force Pokémon to battle this way," implying that she recognizes the difference between the friendly sparring matches pokemon are known for and this rage-filled beatdown unfolding before her, but then both Misty and James come out with these sweeping "all fighting is wrong!" statements a few lines later that totally destroys any nuance the message may have had.

I don't see how that destroys the nuance. There is a difference between battling and fighting; I don't recall normal battles ever being referred to as fights. The dub says that fighting, like the brutal combat shown in the movie, is wrong.

 

[Misty Calls Masquerain]

You can't say that for sure. TPCI has never "reversioned" a movie as extensively as 4Kids did with "Mewtwo Strikes Back" so chances are they'd produce a dub that is, at the very least, a more faithful adaption.

Maybe, but "more faithful" does not automatically mean "good".

It wouldn't be a very good comparison if I only listed the big changes and ignored all the little "nitpicky" ones.

I get that, but what I mean is, you make a big deal out of some of the minor ones.

 

[Meowstic]

We can officially confirm TPCI will not be re-dubbing the first movie:
[video=youtube;ErkVs6xBGlw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErkVs6xBGlw[/video]

 

[Dogasu]

Maybe, but "more faithful" does not automatically mean "good".

It does not automatically mean "bad" either.

 

[Meowstic]

I noticed the Cartoon Network promo draws a lot of similarities from the old Toonami intro for it:
[video=youtube;lpUVgMOkrCo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpUVgMOkrCo[/video]

 

[Charmelizard]

Now that I've seen the commercial, I only wonder one thing: Will the Kids WB, Nintendo and 4Kids logos be restored, or will the movie begin with the Pikachu the Movie logo (Either the current one or the one that was already in the movie)? Same with the English opening credits and title screens.

 

[Meowstic]

Now that I've seen the commercial, I only wonder one thing: Will the Kids WB, Nintendo and 4Kids logos be restored, or will the movie begin with the Pikachu the Movie logo (Either the current one or the one that was already in the movie)? Same with the English opening credits and title screens.

That's a good question. Kids' WB is now defunct, but they did help produce the dub for the movie.

If I had to guess, I would say all the logos will be restored since on the new Yu-Gi-Oh! DVDs (Distributed by New Video Group and 4K Media Inc.), the 4Kids logo was still intact in the credits even though they had sold the rights of the franchise .