Should we presume that moves that were retired from SwSh and SV are permanently retired?

[Macromind101]

It seems that all moves that were unavailable in SwSh are also unavailable in SV (correct me if I'm wrong and there are exceptions, please). Should we presume, then, that all of the moves that were retired in SwSh (as well as the few moves that were available in SwSh but not SV, NOT including signature moves of Pokemon that are not in SV since if/when they are added in later or in a future generation then their move will be as well) will be permanently retired from the (non-remake; I know some moves unavailable in SwSh were available in BDSP) main games (and I mean MAIN main games; I'm not counting games like LGPE and PLA since they're not traditional main games, and I do know moves that were unavailable in SwSh were available in PLA but that didn't affect their availability in SV)?

 

[Kallyle]

I hope not; things like Heart Stamp give us physical Psychic moves, and I’m sure people would prefer things like Pursuit over things like Tera Blast and the Max Moves which are too tied to the gimmicks to return in the future.

 

[winstein]

I believe that is going to be the case. For other moves not belonging to a specific Pokemon, I feel like they are going to be retired for either bloating the moveset (e.g. I am sure nobody will miss Egg Bomb since it's not optimal with the Pokemon that learns it), or they may not be worth the effort to make them work. The moves I am referring for the latter are Return/Frustration, Hidden Power, and Pursuit. Return/Frustration is too tied to friendship to make them easy to use (e.g. if you trade to someone new, they have to grind that Pokemon to bring them up to full power. Hidden Power requires IV manipulation and is generally too cumbersome to get the right type. Pursuit's unique attacking pattern may cause some bugs (e.g. the acid rain glitch in Diamond/Pearl is caused by Pursuit).

Note that for Hidden Power: it's never going to be gone for good, since Unown only learns it. Still, it's very likely going to be a move that is signature to Unown going forward, it's probably going to get an effect change since Unown is not so good, and the move's type change is too cumbersome. The super-effective guarantee is a godsend effect if Unown's only going to learn it.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Morningstar]

That would make sense. The more annoying thing is moves that were had good utility and still exists in the game, but became limited to Single lines (Signal Beam mainly) and that is moslty due to the lack of good optionc for type/property combos (esp Physical or Bug/Special) and shallow movepools in general.

 

[Camille]

I still hope they bring back moves like Return/Frustration and Pursuit, as these were actually good in battle, but I can see why they removed obscure moves like Bide and Captivate.

 

[Harryghost]

This topic hits so close to heart. I was absolutely saddened when I heard about the removal of moves in SwSh, and I still am TBH here in the SV era. Sure, many of them were pretty niche, but many removed moves like Snatch, Spotlight and Lucky Chant directly counter the most spammed strategies in VGC in both Generation 8 and Generation 9. Alas, I miss them for that, and I really hope Game Freak adds these moves back, if not all at once, then in batches, at least.

 

[Arceusgjengen]

I doubt it in the case of signature moves, but the rest, I am not fully sure. Some returned in PLA.

 

[Palamon]

For some of them, probably, it's safe to assume they might never come back. But, for signature moves...no, probably not? They'll likely be added back when the Pokemon associated to the move return in a future game.

 

[Gengarzilla]

We can't really call anything except the generation gimmick moves and maybe the LGPE partner moves "permanently retired" until Pokémon itself is permanently retired, right? We aren't Game Freak, so this distinction really isn't for us to be deciding or assuming on. Anything could very well come back at any point if they wanted it, from random stuff like Bone Club to desired stuff like Pursuit (which I will not accept back unless it's been nerfed because playing against that unbalanced move was the worst thing ever).

 

[R1ke]

Yeah I think so, it’s a shame bc there were some good ones like return

 

[Nichole the Otter]

I think we can safely assume these moves are permanently retired, especially ones that were infamous for causing bugs, so obscure that no-one used them, or were due to competitive balance or being tied to certain coding (such as Hidden Power, Return and Frustration) that was too complicated to work on. They definitely need to work on patching gaps like one type lacking either physical or special moves, or having gaps between the power of certain moves (like how Signal Beam no longer exists, causing a huge gap between Struggle Bug and Bug Buzz).