Should we refresh pokemon?

[edmek55555]

No. That's a terrible way to freshen up the series. For one, it's extremely difficult to program. GameFreak are not really the best in this regard either, unable to program simple conditions that would allow Item transfer from previous Generations and opting for just not allowing Item transfer at all. I don't trust them to have the capabilities to undertake a daunting task such as changing the entire foundation of the existing mechanics and not mess it up.

Other than that, I see no real value or improvement in this whatsoever. I only see annoyance and frustration. Especially with the random move learning. That's just ridiculous. Gee, I sure will have a thrill taking my chances at learning a move each level using a Pokémon that may or may not evolve now. What if my Pokémon learn only shitty moves throughout the game? What if they never learn a frigging new move? What if I keep getting the same moves? That's just an exercise in tedium and even more soft resetting. Making all evolutions friendship based and NPC Trainer's Pokémon random is also unnecessary.

Yeah, I frankly see no positive value in these changes. So what if I know the levels or methods now? As far as I am concerned, that does not take away from my enjoyment of the game. Hell, I find all the older games to be pretty primitive, limiting, and lacking compared to newer ones. The formula may be old, but I enjoy it, and though I wanted to see some changes in the past, especially in the monotype nature of the Gym Leaders/Elite Four, it's obvious it won't happen so I stopped hoping and started enjoying the games for what they are and for the good thing each Gen has. The series has hit a great balance in its mechanics and playability, and the story and characterization is way, way better than it was. Despite fumbling a bit in XY compared to BW, I find these games to be really damn enjoyable. Every experience is new, even if I play the same game again. Another simple way to make it new each time is trying new Pokémon you haven't used before.

Also, if knowledge of everything is so aggravating, there's the option of turning off the Internet completely until you get and beat the game. I don't see any problem knowing what's gonna happen when I raise my Pokémon, and I vastly prefer a controlled environment than a senseless jumble of chance where I may have a great time or just throw the damn game away.

I understand a lot of people feel this way. But like i said just an idea. And I dont mean mae moves completely random. Make it so it is guaranteed to learn its normal moveset by the level it normally would just in a different order. And im not saying the games arent fun. Even though I prefer the older games these games are still a blast. If they werent I would have taken my new unopened copy back to gamestop the second they delayed pokemon bank.

I just enjoyed the wonder the game had when I didnt now everything. And even if you shut the internet off completely and barricade yourself in the house until you play the game you are still gonna know almost everything there is to know. I feel like all trainers in the game including elite four and gym leaders having randomized pokemon would be fun. You will have a unique experience and no one else can tell you what exactly to do at that point in the game because it is different. Games are just such a cakewalk now and I think that is partially due to our vast knowledge. I didnt ev train my pokemon or anything this gen and still hardly ever lost a pokemon. I remember when the elite 4 used to make me sweat bullets. Just looking for some of that back

 

[GhostFingers]

Starters that aren't Grass<-Fire<-Water. Gen 6's double typing was a good change, making each starter weak/strong in two ways

How? it's still as one sided as Grass< Fire < Water the Gen 4 starters' typing are a slightly better example.

I can see i'm going to have to explain further what i meant. Yes the gen VI secondary types are one-sided, that's how it's supposed to be. I meant that it's interesting that they went in this direction rather than secondary types being totally random (like gen IV). Or i think some people were annoyed that the triangle wasn't reversed in the secondary types as predicted by internet rumour. But i wanted to give an example that has the same relationship as the former yet is not the same old Grass < Fire < Water.

Anyway there's one thingn that bugs me way beyond the starters. By the end of gen V there were 649 pokemon, and STILL in a party there could be no more than 6. That equates less than 1% of all pokes in a team. How inconvenient is it to have to swap at a computer to get a HM slave or make room for eggs!? I'd say 9 is better without being too many. Any other suggestions?

 

[ocelotlrama jaguar]

Make every pokemon evolve in a manner similar to friendship.

I believe movesets should be similar to evolution. No set level. Maybe just have it be random and there is a chance to learn a move in that pokemon's learnset each time they level up.

I think enemies pokemon should also be somewhat randomized, in the case of gym leaders and elite four they have to be of the same type, and depending on what stage of the game you are in they also have to be of a certain evolutionary stage. I would love to see every experience be unique.

Being able to choose any 1st stage evolution as your starter. I have wanted this for a long time. In the anime you see so many trainers who have pokemon they say they have had since day one, but arent a normal starter. And professor oak explains there was a huge selection of pokemon for new trainers to choose from but ash just got there late so he only had one choice. I want to start with my wooper dangit!

But that is all I have for now. Feel free to let me now what you think and please add some ideas of your own

One of the things long time fans (those since the "RBY days") fail to realize is that this is a CHILDREN'S game. It is simplified the way it is for that very reason; to make things easier for children to play.

OP, I can see where your going. New ideas are great, but there is a reason why I love the professionals being in charge and not the fans. A lot of older fans want something complicated and randomized, but the fact that Pokemon already has a bunch of random mechanics (shininess, critical hits, the goddamned Battle Frontier and its equally frustrating successors) plus what you have recommended wouldn't make for a very fun game. Do you know how LONG it takes to make a Pokemon evolve with friendship? It's a pain in the keister during the main game! Set levels are fine. If you don't want enemies to be predictable, don't read strategy guides and don't look ahead in advance to see what in-game trainers have and what levels they are at. Random levels for movesets? Why? So some people can have Flamethrower early at level 8 and blitz through the game while others get a crappy Fire Spin? The starters to each generation offer something unique so you can look forward to getting that last evolution. I don't think that kind of emotion ever fades, regardless of what generation you are playing.

I remember when Ruby and Sapphire came out and being really upset when I thought they were rebooting the series, what with only a handful of first and second generation Pokemon making it to the games. Turns out they were there the whole time in the game's data, but it still was a terrible feeling at the time. I don't know. I am not a big fan of change to the "status quo." It just wouldn't be Pokemon without those same mechanics. Love 'em of hate 'em, they are what make the main Pokemon games.

 

[edmek55555]

Make every pokemon evolve in a manner similar to friendship.

I believe movesets should be similar to evolution. No set level. Maybe just have it be random and there is a chance to learn a move in that pokemon's learnset each time they level up.

I think enemies pokemon should also be somewhat randomized, in the case of gym leaders and elite four they have to be of the same type, and depending on what stage of the game you are in they also have to be of a certain evolutionary stage. I would love to see every experience be unique.

Being able to choose any 1st stage evolution as your starter. I have wanted this for a long time. In the anime you see so many trainers who have pokemon they say they have had since day one, but arent a normal starter. And professor oak explains there was a huge selection of pokemon for new trainers to choose from but ash just got there late so he only had one choice. I want to start with my wooper dangit!

But that is all I have for now. Feel free to let me now what you think and please add some ideas of your own

One of the things long time fans (those since the "RBY days") fail to realize is that this is a CHILDREN'S game. It is simplified the way it is for that very reason; to make things easier for children to play.

OP, I can see where your going. New ideas are great, but there is a reason why I love the professionals being in charge and not the fans. A lot of older fans want something complicated and randomized, but the fact that Pokemon already has a bunch of random mechanics (shininess, critical hits, the goddamned Battle Frontier and its equally frustrating successors) plus what you have recommended wouldn't make for a very fun game. Do you know how LONG it takes to make a Pokemon evolve with friendship? It's a pain in the keister during the main game! Set levels are fine. If you don't want enemies to be predictable, don't read strategy guides and don't look ahead in advance to see what in-game trainers have and what levels they are at. Random levels for movesets? Why? So some people can have Flamethrower early at level 8 and blitz through the game while others get a crappy Fire Spin? The starters to each generation offer something unique so you can look forward to getting that last evolution. I don't think that kind of emotion ever fades, regardless of what generation you are playing.

I remember when Ruby and Sapphire came out and being really upset when I thought they were rebooting the series, what with only a handful of first and second generation Pokemon making it to the games. Turns out they were there the whole time in the game's data, but it still was a terrible feeling at the time. I don't know. I am not a big fan of change to the "status quo." It just wouldn't be Pokemon without those same mechanics. Love 'em of hate 'em, they are what make the main Pokemon games.

I just want to clarify that I do not hate the game at all. Quite the opposite. And I see the points everyone is making, I agree the ideas are far from perfect. I just wanted to see everyone's thoughts and maybe see some different ideas. The game is undoubtedly great the way it is. Very predictable (even if you dont see anything before hand) but very fun. I understand that gamefreak sticking to their guns is what has made pokemon survive so long and be such a phenomenon and I love them for it. However after mega evolutions appeared it seems anything could be possible at this point.

As a side note, friendship evolution doesnt take very long. I had a chansey try to friendship evolve at level 20, while I have had others take marginally longer. That is the fun part

 

[Ellron]

The quickest I've had a Pokemon evolve by friendship was a Crobat at LV. 22. The longest it took was trying to evolve a flippin' Chingling on X. The blasted bell didn't like me enough until it was almost LV. 50! I forgot it was by friendship at the time, so every level after about 35 I was thinking, "Ok, this level it's gonna evolve... Okay, next level it'll evolve..."

 

[Warrior of Fire]

The quickest I've had a Pokemon evolve by friendship was a Crobat at LV. 22. The longest it took was trying to evolve a flippin' Chingling on X. The blasted bell didn't like me enough until it was almost LV. 50! I forgot it was by friendship at the time, so every level after about 35 I was thinking, "Ok, this level it's gonna evolve... Okay, next level it'll evolve..."

Don't forget that Chingling is one of those doubly annoying friendship evolutions where the time of day matters, too. Now, sure Espeon and Umbreon were the first two with that mechanic and they are both Eeveelutions (thus not getting that annoying part tacked on), the mere fact that you could end up with a level 100 Chingling that never once tried to evolve because you were leveling it at the wrong time just makes it worse.

 

[Ellron]

The quickest I've had a Pokemon evolve by friendship was a Crobat at LV. 22. The longest it took was trying to evolve a flippin' Chingling on X. The blasted bell didn't like me enough until it was almost LV. 50! I forgot it was by friendship at the time, so every level after about 35 I was thinking, "Ok, this level it's gonna evolve... Okay, next level it'll evolve..."

Don't forget that Chingling is one of those doubly annoying friendship evolutions where the time of day matters, too. Now, sure Espeon and Umbreon were the first two with that mechanic and they are both Eeveelutions (thus not getting that annoying part tacked on), the mere fact that you could end up with a level 100 Chingling that never once tried to evolve because you were leveling it at the wrong time just makes it worse.

Oh yeah... that may have been part of it... In my Pearl run I'm using a Roselia and a Chimecho. It was really annoying to try and evolve them from their baby stages because they both depended on happiness AND time of day, but one was day and one was night. But I got them both in the end, so it's all good xD

 

[hakiobo]

People always underestimate just how perfectly those types serve as starters.

The only other set of types that do super effective damage one way and 50% damage the other way is Rock/Flying/Fighting, but they still miss some major points that make Grass/Fire/Water function so perfectly as starter Pokemon.

-A flying type Pokemon is guaranteed to be available on the first couple of routes so having it as a starter is redundant. They are also available frequently throughout the game. Flying is also a secondary type with the exception of some fairly bizarre Pokemon.
-Rock type pokemon would have a significantly greater advantage then the Flying and Fighting pokemon early in the game because it is resistant to and/or strong against everything found early in the game. Normal, Flying, and Bug have no shot at fighting Rock Pokemon.
-Fighting Pokemon are not guaranteed STAB on every opponent it comes across because ghost Pokemon are immune to Fighting type attacks. This makes it harder to use then starter Pokemon are meant to be.

Water, Grass, and Fire type Pokemon are roughly equally uncommon in the wild unless the player goes out of his/her way to get good or super rods which beginners are likely to pass up. water grass and fire type pokemon are guaranteed to get stab on every opponent in the game so they are fairly easy to use by beginners who prefer to just overpower their opponents. Water Fire and Grass are about equally effective against the Normal, Flying, and Bug pokemon found early in the game. Fire has a bit of an advantage and Grass has a bit of a disadvantage but nothing too confusing.

what about fire -->steel-->rock

 

[scrambled_togepi]

People always underestimate just how perfectly those types serve as starters.

The only other set of types that do super effective damage one way and 50% damage the other way is Rock/Flying/Fighting, but they still miss some major points that make Grass/Fire/Water function so perfectly as starter Pokemon.

-A flying type Pokemon is guaranteed to be available on the first couple of routes so having it as a starter is redundant. They are also available frequently throughout the game. Flying is also a secondary type with the exception of some fairly bizarre Pokemon.
-Rock type pokemon would have a significantly greater advantage then the Flying and Fighting pokemon early in the game because it is resistant to and/or strong against everything found early in the game. Normal, Flying, and Bug have no shot at fighting Rock Pokemon.
-Fighting Pokemon are not guaranteed STAB on every opponent it comes across because ghost Pokemon are immune to Fighting type attacks. This makes it harder to use then starter Pokemon are meant to be.

Water, Grass, and Fire type Pokemon are roughly equally uncommon in the wild unless the player goes out of his/her way to get good or super rods which beginners are likely to pass up. water grass and fire type pokemon are guaranteed to get stab on every opponent in the game so they are fairly easy to use by beginners who prefer to just overpower their opponents. Water Fire and Grass are about equally effective against the Normal, Flying, and Bug pokemon found early in the game. Fire has a bit of an advantage and Grass has a bit of a disadvantage but nothing too confusing.

what about fire -->steel-->rock

Fire is still a starter type and Rock has the same issues I mentioned before. Steel is almost as bad as rock, resisting Normal flying and bug. It isn't strong against them though.

Fire/Steel/Rock is closer to Grass/Fire/Water then Flying/Rock/Fighting though, because Fire and Steel both resist themselves

 

[Kit Chan]

I think a revamped evolution system could work. Maybe something like how well its trained in addition to a minimum level.
Perhaps it could be level + affection and there could be more ways than just Amie to raise affection.

 

[Lufenium]

Learning moves at random levels would make no sense.

What if Lugia learned Aeroblast at level 32, but then got Gust at level 65? Or Charmeleon getting Flamethrower at 19, and Charizard trying to learn Ember at level 47? Having moves at set levels makes sense in the general consensus that the higher the Pokemon's level, the more powerful the moves it will learn.

I agree that the levelling system is somewhat simplistic in comparison to some other RPGs, but it works, and it works well. There's no need to fix something that isn't broken. If Pokemon needs fixing in some areas, it isn't in the levelling area.