Silvally really needs a buff

[Lanstar]

Okay... I'm really not joking here. One thing I hope in Ultra Sun/Moon is some kind of power-up or fix to the Pokemon Silvally. At first, this seems like a stupid thing to ask for - I mean, it is a Pokemon with a 570 total BST that can become any type you wish to give it, and was supposedly designed to counter the Ultra Beasts. And yet it is not even viable at all in competitive battling, being forced all the way down to a niche in Smogon's PU Tier.

Why? I see many big factors:

1. No worthy ability. All RKS System does is perform an outside-of-battle effect when combined with a 'Memory' held item that does nothing but change its type.

2. No worthy hold item - unless you use Normal Silvally. If you choose a Memory to switch types, you end up having no hold item support for it at all.

3. No reliable recovery. I'm totally disturbed that while Arceus can learn recover, this artificial derivative cannot - and that move is a big reason why Arceus is so good!

To me, the best way they could buff Silvally is remove the dumb RKS Ability, and instead of making the memories hold items, to create a key item that gives memories to change its type. It would be even cooler if each of its forms had different abilities of their own, too!

(Besides it is really pronounced Ar-see-us. )

How would you want to see Silvally improved?

 

[Morningstar]

I can't see RKS System being removed. For one thing, Silvally is supposed to be a clone and that ability and dependence on items is a part of that (since its a carbon copy of Arceus' own ability, Multitype). With that said, I do think it can do with some recovery options and a similar move pool to Arceus itself for it to shine. (Comparing the TMs list shows that Silvally has few options for Psychic-type, Grass-type or Fairy-type offensive moves beyond Multi-Attack, which limits the coverage of certain forms. And Arceus also has an expanded movepool from tutors. Besides Recover, Arceus also have Calm Mind, Trick Room and Stealth Rock over Silvally).

I can see Move tutors giving Silvally a lot more options, but I fear that it might not be enough to bring it to OU.

 

[Lanstar]

Well, if not change the ability... Why not buff it by allowing the z-crystals to be used instead? I think the Memory items are just really bad, as unlike the move-boosting plates Arceus uses, they literally do nothing but take an item slot away from it.

Either that, or give the memory items actual battle effects of some kind along with the type change.

 

[Morningstar]

Well, if not change the ability... Why not buff it by allowing the z-crystals to be used instead? I think the Memory items are just really bad, as unlike the move-boosting plates Arceus uses, they literally do nothing but take an item slot away from it.

Either that, or give the memory items actual battle effects of some kind along with the type change.

That could work. IIRC the Z-crystals did change Arceus' type (but not Judgment's).

 

[Zeb]

1. Make Drives work like Plates, giving its STAB a small boost.
2. Give it Recover, allowing its roles to expand by making defensive sets more viable
3. Possibly give it Extreme Speed since it's meant to be a mini-Arceus

The first probably won't happen mid-gen, but the other two (movepool updates) can and should.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I wish Silvally had 100 in each stat rather than 95.

 

[SpikOriundo]

Just... More moves. Most Memories are useless for getting STAB, unless you specifically use Multi-Attack, which is dumb. Silvally is supposed to bet a bootleg Arceus. Why doesn't it have a bigger variety of moves it can choose? Sure, having the same learnset that Arceus has would be a bit too much, but at least a part of it. I feel like Silvally has less than half of the possibilites that Arceus has.

 

[CynthiaLover]

I agree with everyone that Silvally needs help. But let's first break down the whole Arceus/Silvally situation.

For starters, Silvally is a man-made Mon based off of the Poke-World's PokeGod. So unless they actually had some DNA from Arceus to work as a base, like with Mew/Mewtwo, then the results would be much better. However, chances are they didn't so they had to build up the whole thing from scratch with Arceus as the "base image" for it. Meaning that they were only armed with the knowledge of what Arceus is capable of and a rough idea of what their end project would be.

Next, clones of any sort, unless they draw power from the original DNA, will be weaker and/or less effective overall. Look at some other examples of clones. Both Beast Wars and Monster Rancher 2 show us some pretty notable examples. In Beast Wars Megatron cloned Dinobot three times: the first clone was very limited in abilities, it couldn't transform, it lacked the honor the genuine article had (which was on purpose), and generally lacked any abilities that we out of the range of Beast Mode. Event though it had Dinobot's DNA as a source, it failed spectacularly and was eaten by the real deal. Clone attempt #2 were the cyber-raptors, this time testing out Transmetal 2 tech, but they still were nothing more than remote controlled cyborg lizards and defeated when their weakness was exploited. The third attempt was more successful, creating Dinobot 2, but it still backfired in the end. And for the MR2 example, you can get a man-made Suezo from the MR1 disc. It's insanely powerful, but it lives only one week, it can't be frozen or combined, nor can you enhance its lifespan, once again showing that man-made clones just can't compare with the real deal.

Moving on from there, according to the game itself, Type: Null was originally called Type: Full, but the project failed miserably when it went out of control and was forced to be put into cryosleep, along with being forced to wear that bothersome helmet. So Silvally can be considered the "successful" form of the project, but it was only able to become it through love and affection, not the methods Aether used. So because it "evolved" only through what would be called "unconventional methods" to those in scientific fields, that probably contributes to its rather lacking arsenal and somewhat scrappy gimmick ability, since the abilities it was "designed" with didn't "evolve" with it, so it would require more research and work to expand them. And that's the current problem.

Now, here's the part where I put in my 2 cents regarding the main subject of this thread. Silvally needs to maximize what it has to fix its flaws. For starters, I suggest leaving the RKS System untouched, but rework the Memory Drives instead. Make them like demi-Plates, where it won't just change type but also give bonus power to other moves besides Multi-Attack. So if you put in a Fire Memory, it should not only turn Silvally into a Fire-type, but also give any Fire moves it can learn a boost via the Memory, not just Multi-Attack. Even if it's just a 10% boost, that's better than nothing. Second, if Move Tutors are put into USUM (and I hoping that they are), then they better help expand Silvally's attack options. Also tweaking his current movepool would help in giving it other options to work with, such as Recover for healing, more TMs to further balance it's options, and other moves like increased priority to deal with its low speed and field traps like Stealth Rock for surprise tactics. Basically, if GF does retool Silvally in USUM, then they should primarily expand its options and rework the Memory Drives to be more usable and not just a waste of space.

That's what I've got to say about this subject, so let's hope that GF gets the message and at least consider giving Silvally a much-needed boost come USUM. That's all from me for now.

 

[DoctorWhy]

1. Make Drives work like Plates, giving its STAB a small boost.
2. Give it Recover, allowing its roles to expand by making defensive sets more viable
3. Possibly give it Extreme Speed since it's meant to be a mini-Arceus

The first probably won't happen mid-gen, but the other two (movepool updates) can and should.

I fully endorse these changes. Perfect tweaks. I actually didn't know that the Memory Drives didn't give a STAB boost. That's crazy.

 

[Lanstar]

As I see the responses here, I'm starting to dislike how Arceus comparisons justify the position Silvally is in. I mean, yes, the Pokemon appears to have been made with the deity's powers in mind, but if you actually compare the two, Silvally shows so much individuality from Arceus. I dare say this: If you looked at Silvally's design with zero knowledge about its origin of Type: Null or its AKS System, you probably wouldn't think of the ties to Arceus.

Also, while Silvally doesn't have the vast movepool of Arceus, look carefully at what it can learn beyond Multi-attack:

Double Edge
Explosion
Air Slash
Crush Claw
Tri-Attack
Biting Moves
Metal Sound
Parting Shot (Curious as to why...)

The vast majority of it's natural, non-TM movepool can't be learned by Arceus! If they were to just to create a "Bootleg Arceus" with it, How come it was designed to have so many moves beyond what the deity can learn?

In other words, I think we should look beyond just Arceus upon what Silvally really needs just to battle better. And for the record, I'm just as guilty for thinking that it should learn Recover just because Arceus can learn it. v.v

 

[Matleo]

It would be better if it would also react to the Z-crystals used in battle.
Maybe making a dual type pokemon in the proces?
This way people could test all the dual types and it would seperate it from Arceus more?
Then they could make a better ability for Arceus in future.

 

[Team Gaara]

Sorry to say it, but it's clearly meant to be a bootleg Arceus, so I can't help but say it shouldn't have an ability that does more than what Arceus' does, and that's just change type. Same for held item, they should be on the same playing field.

Regarding Recover and the fact that it is a bootleg, I find it fine that it's lesser in some regard, such as not being able to heal itself. Now, I'm not saying it shouldn't be able to heal at all, but since Arceus can use Recover, I think it should get a weaker variant, not the same thing. Or maybe just Refresh. Granted, I know this sucks thinking competitively, but Pokemon are made with a story in mind, too, so it just has to be dealt with, IMO~

So I disagree, Silvally has to be either equal to or lesser than Arceus, it can't be better than it in any aspect. If Arceus is stuck with an ability that does nothing but allow it to change type, Silvally should be the same. If Plates aren't going to be Key Items and Arceus' different types don't get their own abilities, then Silvally certainly shouldn't be able to~ If anything, I'd say Silvally should be able to use the Z-Move type of its respective Memory~

 

[Lanstar]

Sigh... I feel like no one has actually answered my question:

If they were to just to create a "Bootleg Arceus" with it, How come it was designed to have so many moves beyond what the deity can learn?

 

[Matleo]

Sorry to say it, but it's clearly meant to be a bootleg Arceus, so I can't help but say it shouldn't have an ability that does more than what Arceus' does, and that's just change type. Same for held item, they should be on the same playing field.

they will probably modificte Arceus some how in future.
Yes but would be cooler if it would start as a normal type and gain type through using a Z-move rather then those other method.

 

[Team Gaara]

Sigh... I feel like no one has actually answered my question:

If they were to just to create a "Bootleg Arceus" with it, How come it was designed to have so many moves beyond what the deity can learn?

Bootleg Arceus was also designed to be a Beast Killer, that's like its main purpose. So it's understandable that they'd give it more offensive moves like Crush Claw and Explosion to make use of to kill Beasts.

 

[Lanstar]

Bootleg Arceus was also designed to be a Beast Killer, that's like its main purpose. So it's understandable that they'd give it more offensive moves like Crush Claw and Explosion to make use of to kill Beasts.

"Ultra beast" is a deceptive term here - they're but extradimensional creatures of weirder standards than that of the human world. What does any of its Movepool aside from Multi-attack have to do with detering them? I mean, they might have well also designed it to have all of Arceus's movepool, and that would retain the beasts too.

Also, it kind of suffers the "Zygarde effect", so I call it: For a Pokemon that's designed to control the Ultra Beasts, it doesn't seem to do a good job in battling them in reality. The only tier it is good in is PU, where only the weakest Ultra Beast, Guzzlord, resides. There, Fairy-type Silvally can do some things against it, if only because there are incredibly few decent fairy types in the tier in the first place.

Otherwise the other ultrabeasts have really infested the higher tiers - and no serious battler would just use Silvally to counter them.

 

[Team Gaara]

"Ultra beast" is a deceptive term here - they're but extradimensional creatures of weirder standards than that of the human world. What does any of its Movepool aside from Multi-attack have to do with detering them? I mean, they might have well also designed it to have all of Arceus's movepool, and that would retain the beasts too.

Also, it kind of suffers the "Zygarde effect", so I call it: For a Pokemon that's designed to control the Ultra Beasts, it doesn't seem to do a good job in battling them in reality. The only tier it is good in is PU, where only the weakest Ultra Beast, Guzzlord, resides. There, Fairy-type Silvally can do some things against it, if only because there are incredibly few decent fairy types in the tier in the first place.

Otherwise the other ultrabeasts have really infested the higher tiers - and no serious battler would just use Silvally to counter them.

You're mixing story logic and metagame logic~ Just as you mentioned how Zygarde is basically useless against Xerneas and Yveltal in the meta, its purpose is to control them in the games' lore. So whether or not Silvally can effectively counter UBs in an unofficial, fan-created tier is beside the point and irrelevant.

Story-wise, Zangoose and Seviper are rivals but you wouldn't ever see a competitive player who knows their opponent has either mon in their party bring the other one as their only means of taking it out.

 

[Gengarzilla]

If I'll be totally blunt, I haven't fallen head over heels for Arceus-Lite and my playing experience is unlikely to be affected by whether or not it gets a buff. I just don't find Silvally very interesting when you remove the Arceus comparisons.
Though I do sorta expect it to get something, I'm skeptical over whether said something would actually let it actually stand up to every single Ultra Beast as per Aether's original design.

 

[Lanstar]

You're mixing story logic and metagame logic~ Just as you mentioned how Zygarde is basically useless against Xerneas and Yveltal in the meta, its purpose is to control them in the games' lore. So whether or not Silvally can effectively counter UBs in an unofficial, fan-created tier is beside the point and irrelevant.

Story-wise, Zangoose and Seviper are rivals but you wouldn't ever see a competitive player who knows their opponent has either mon in their party bring the other one as their only means of taking it out.

And yet, you enforce the idea that Silvally knows its attacks as an excuse to counter them - yet many Pokemon could have these attacks to counter the beasts as well.

And also, I actually pointed out: By the logic of "lore," they could have just gave the "Bootleg Arceus" the movepool of the deity instead, as opposed all these weird attacks Arceus can't learn. Is that to say something about Arceus being unable to counter the ultrabeasts without these attacks it cannot learn? That's strange logic...

 

[Muur]

I wasn't aware the memories didn't boost stab. That's pretty dumb, change that.