Review SM102: Alola at Alola! Takeshi and Kasumi!!

[NeoMiniTails]

Please someone respond to this

I’m not entirely sure about what to think of all of this

Misty and Lana getting along does seem nice and very appropriate all things considered, but (and this is probably just the Pokeshipper in me talking) I kind of wished that she and Ash got more scenes together

Also, the initial final ending scene still kind of bothers, because I genuinely thought that Ash and Misty were passed that point where she would call him things like a ‘kid’. This is pretty much just like how I felt about that Cerulean Gym battle episode; Misty and Brock still give Ash a hard time about those two gym badges and Misty still teased Ash for just feeling proud about his victory against her.

First of all, I still say that saying that Ash won those first two badges out of pity is incorrect when you think about it. And secondly I honestly just cannot stand the points where Ash gets teased, that was actually part of the reason why I actually enjoyed the Orange Islands saga and the Johto saga; that aspect of the character dynamic was starting to fade until it was almost gone. It all just struck me as being overly harsh on our main character, even in the rare episodes when I agree that he kind of asked for it.

I honestly thought that Ash had both Misty and Brock’s respect as both a trainer and a person by now

I'm a pokeshipper also, but their teasing is a part of their dynamic. The way that Kasumi speaks is not harshly nor is it cold. Its clear that Satoshi and her have a friendship that is beyond what name is being used.

I honestly wouldn't want this episode to Kasumi×Satoshi focused. I'm glad that the scenes that were focused on them was there.

Misty's belief in Ash's power is clearly seen when she has Gyrados grab hold of TR's mecha and says, "Finish him now..." Or something along those lines to Satoshi.

Every one had to join in, however but the line was directed at Satoshi.

Lol Misty would be so surprised if she saw XY Ash.

Lmao! You're so right! I think she'd even be shocked by DP Satoshi.

 

[Pulsaro23]

Also, the initial final ending scene still kind of bothers, because I genuinely thought that Ash and Misty were passed that point where she would call him things like a ‘kid’. This is pretty much just like how I felt about that Cerulean Gym battle episode; Misty and Brock still give Ash a hard time about those two gym badges and Misty still teased Ash for just feeling proud about his victory against her.

First of all, I still say that saying that Ash won those first two badges out of pity is incorrect when you think about it. And secondly I honestly just cannot stand the points where Ash gets teased, that was actually part of the reason why I actually enjoyed the Orange Islands saga and the Johto saga; that aspect of the character dynamic was starting to fade until it was almost gone. It all just struck me as being overly harsh on our main character, even in the rare episodes when I agree that he kind of asked for it.

I honestly thought that Ash had both Misty and Brock’s respect as both a trainer and a person by now

My dear friend, you seem to forget that this is Sun & Moon we are talking about. And in this series the writers want to make sure that Ash is portrayed as a bumbling idiot when it comes to life (or just anything unrelated to Pokémon battles) for the sake of... comedy I guess?

I mean, during Best Wishes Ash did seem to forget stuff he learned before very frequently (to the point that we witnessed the worst gym battle yet), but I don't remember that we got to a point where people would out right discredit his achievements or showing him as an incompetent idiot just for some gags (that I find, at this moment, to be less funny and more redundant/boring by the episode).

 

[NeoMiniTails]

My dear friend, you seem to forget that this is Sun & Moon we are talking about. And in this series the writers want to make sure that Ash is portrayed as a bumbling idiot when it comes to life (or just anything unrelated to Pokémon battles) for the sake of... comedy I guess?

I don't think Satoshi is shown to be a bumbling idiot throughout Sun and Moon. Out of almost all the seasons, he comes off as very human, very compassionate, and very much a 10 year old.

Satoshi isn't shown to be perfect, but he's also not just good at Pokemon battling. He gives hope to his friends, is always there for them, willing to learn, and he happens to be the most competent at battling.

I watched this episode, and I honestly don't remember Kasumi insulting Satoshi.

He's relatable. Satoshi is strongminded. His ability to never give up is admirable.

Also, I want Kasumi to be Kasumi, not Serena or Hikari (both are characters I love as individuals), but I don't want her clinging to Satoshi. I also don't want every other word to be a compliment.

She is a tsundere. Kasumi has many sweet qualities, but part of her caring for him means that she will make fun of him sometimes.

 

[Pulsaro23]

I watched this episode, and I honestly don't remember Kasumi insulting Satoshi.

He's relatable. Satoshi is strongminded. His ability to never give up is admirable.

Also, I want Kasumi to be Kasumi, not Serena or Hikari (both are characters I love as individuals), but I don't want her clinging to Satoshi. I also don't want every other word to be a compliment.

She is a tsundere. Kasumi has many sweet qualities, but part of her caring for him means that she will make fun of him sometimes.

Let me start by saying that (as I mentioned before on this thread) I haven't watched this episode yet and, frankly, I don't feel like watching it since:
a) When the only note worthy thing that happened this episode is that Brock and Misty returned leads me to believe that this episode is nothing more than a glorified, nostalgic filler;
b) Diamond & Pearl was the series that introduced me to Pokémon and even thou I've watched some episode of the OG series, I'm not as invested in a Misty-centric episode that plays on the same gags and tropes as episodes 42 and 43.

That said, I'm pretty sure that in my reply to Srebak I was focusing on the part where he mentioned the Kanto trip. You know, the one where Ash & co. visit Cerulean Gym, where Misty states the he got the Cascade Badge "out of pity" (even thou according to every summery I find it is stated that it was DAISY who gave Ash the badge because "if it weren't for him, the Gym would have been destroyed"), to which Brock responds with "I guess that did happen" (which again, is false, since Brock insisted that Ash should accept the Boulder Badge because has earned it through his kindness to Pokémon). Which does feel like they are not only discrediting his past achievements, but also insulting him and his abilities as a trainer. At best it's more stupid Sun & Moon humor (and whether you like it or not is entirely subjective). At worst, it's an insult to Ash's competence as a Pokémon Trainer.

And I agree that Misty should be herself and not a copy of previous companions, but still you'd expect her to have more respect for Ash (considering that Advanced Generations established that she has been watching his participation in the previous leagues). But, again, haven't watched the episode, so I can't really comment on the way she treats Ash this time.

I don't think Satoshi is shown to be a bumbling idiot throughout Sun and Moon. Out of almost all the seasons, he comes off as very human, very compassionate, and very much a 10 year old.

Satoshi isn't shown to be perfect, but he's also not just good at Pokemon battling. He gives hope to his friends, is always there for them, willing to learn, and he happens to be the most competent at battling.

Oh boy, where do I begin.

Being a someone who's stuck with mostly 2 defining emotions (wonderous and overly happy) sounds very human to me (I actually found it surprising when PhantomStrider of all people mentioned this as a problem he had with the modern take on the Pokémon anime, since I see few people talking negatively about his robot-like feelings).

Him being compassionate this time isn't really something new, since he has been like that ever since Advanced Generations.

And (age aside) him being amazed about everything in Alola (from Pokémon to food (some of which he's eaten before, like Oran Berries)), to the point that he annoys wild Pokémon or causes them to attack him, especially after all the adventures he's been through and all the events of the past series-es make it feel like Ash has gone through some kind of regression, instead of the expected progression.

As for the "Ash not being perfect" statement, I agree. No living being is perfect. And I might have exaggerated a little when I said that Ash is only good at battling. But when it comes to doing the simplest of chores, he fails miserably. After 6 generations/5 series, after all the adventures he's had, after all the people he's been around, Ash is unable to cook food (even when supervised), use a washing machine, go shopping on his own, jump a vaulting horse, do a simple essay (or anything related to school work) or work on a farm (even when he is supervised and shown what to do and how to do it). He may be a good friend and a competent battler, but when it comes to even the most mundane stuff, he's comes of as incompetent, and this series loves to make sure the audience knows this.

 

[RetroPokeFan]

Misty and Brock make their grand return and....

everyone barely does anything worthwhile for the entire episode until Team Rocket arrive to help me from snoozing into absolute boredom.

Top quality 22 minutes of pure nothingness.

Also with Giovanni busy, could it potentially mean he'll be the final conflict of the show? Sure hope so.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

Let me start by saying that (as I mentioned before on this thread) I haven't watched this episode yet and, frankly, I don't feel like watching it since:
a) When the only note worthy thing that happened this episode is that Brock and Misty returned leads me to believe that this episode is nothing more than a glorified, nostalgic filler;
b) Diamond & Pearl was the series that introduced me to Pokémon and even thou I've watched some episode of the OG series, I'm not as invested in a Misty-centric episode that plays on the same gags and tropes as episodes 42 and 43.

That said, I'm pretty sure that in my reply to Srebak I was focusing on the part where he mentioned the Kanto trip. You know, the one where Ash & co. visit Cerulean Gym, where Misty states the he got the Cascade Badge "out of pity" (even thou according to every summery I find it is stated that it was DAISY who gave Ash the badge because "if it weren't for him, the Gym would have been destroyed"), to which Brock responds with "I guess that did happen" (which again, is false, since Brock insisted that Ash should accept the Boulder Badge because has earned it through his kindness to Pokémon). Which does feel like they are not only discrediting his past achievements, but also insulting him and his abilities as a trainer. At best it's more stupid Sun & Moon humor (and whether you like it or not is entirely subjective). At worst, it's an insult to Ash's competence as a Pokémon Trainer.

And I agree that Misty should be herself and not a copy of previous companions, but still you'd expect her to have more respect for Ash (considering that Advanced Generations established that she has been watching his participation in the previous leagues). But, again, haven't watched the episode, so I can't really comment on the way she treats Ash this time.



Oh boy, where do I begin.

Being a someone who's stuck with mostly 2 defining emotions (wonderous and overly happy) sounds very human to me (I actually found it surprising when PhantomStrider of all people mentioned this as a problem he had with the modern take on the Pokémon anime, since I see few people talking negatively about his robot-like feelings).

Him being compassionate this time isn't really something new, since he has been like that ever since Advanced Generations.

And (age aside) him being amazed about everything in Alola (from Pokémon to food (some of which he's eaten before, like Oran Berries)), to the point that he annoys wild Pokémon or causes them to attack him, especially after all the adventures he's been through and all the events of the past series-es make it feel like Ash has gone through some kind of regression, instead of the expected progression.

As a writer, I'm harsh when it comes to shows making characters unrelatable. Satoshi is by no means a perfect character - no matter which saga/generation/ season you're watching as is the case with any show.

However how one feels about a character does not define how everyone feels. For example, growing up, I hated Usagi Tsukino (the lead character for Sailor Moon), but she was one of the most popular characters in the series and now, in shoujo anime, period.

Going back to Satoshi, I don't doubt that you dislike the portrayal of him because you were introduced during DP (which had a similar character as XYZ.) For you, the quintessential Satoshi is the mature, cool DP version of him, which is also one of my favorite series. Throughout Sun and Moon, he's shown himself to be brave, to work hard, smart in his own way, able to read emotions, and he's competitive.

He comforted Poipole when its friend died. He was there for his fire Pokemon and Lillie.

He's spent so much time on the road now; it makes sense that he'd have to learn common things for everyone else.

Satoshi isn't just happy all the time however that is a major defining trait of him. Even in XY, we see his wondrous trait quite often especially when it came to science because its something he's never seen before.

Satoshi has been shown to be loving and compassionate since season one but even more so as the show goes on. One of the first things Kasumi takes note about him is his love for Pokemon, in general when she sees him with Caterpie.

He's only ten years old. Satoshi is living in a very different culture than his own. He forgets things that he's tasted, just as we all do. Give me sweet potato pie, no matter how many times I've eaten before, I'm gonna be excited.

As for the "Ash not being perfect" statement, I agree. No living being is perfect. And I might have exaggerated a little when I said that Ash is only good at battling. But when it comes to doing the simplest of chores, he fails miserably. After 6 generations/5 series, after all the adventures he's had, after all the people he's been around, Ash is unable to cook food (even when supervised), use a washing machine, go shopping on his own, jump a vaulting horse, do a simple essay (or anything related to school work) or work on a farm (even when he is supervised and shown what to do and how to do it). He may be a good friend and a competent battler, but when it comes to even the most mundane stuff, he's comes of as incompetent, and this series loves to make sure the audience knows this.

There are people who have lived 80 years and still can't cook, do dishes, or laundry. The fact is, Satoshi never had to do those things. While travelling, he's always had a companion who could do that stuff. At home, its his mom.

He still tries.

I'm good at math and writing. I was never athletic, but I could answer an algebraic expression within seconds with no calculator. With every thing else, I pretty much sucked.

The episode itself felt like a foreshadow of something to come. It didn't do a lot, but it was nice.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

I don't think Satoshi is shown to be a bumbling idiot throughout Sun and Moon.

He absolutely is.

There's an obscene amount of slapstick """comedy""" heaped on him and it's grating to watch at times

Occasionally the pain he brings on himself is in fact his own fault, but the vast majority is just him hurting himself for no reason or thinking of very, very, very dumb ideas that even a ten-year old would find insulting

 

[KenzeyEevee]

I see that many fans where dissapointed in this episode.

 

[Pulsaro23]

As a writer, I'm harsh when it comes to shows making characters unrelatable. Satoshi is by no means a perfect character - no matter which saga/generation/ season you're watching as is the case with any show.

However how one feels about a character does not define how everyone feels. For example, growing up, I hated Usagi Tsukino (the lead character for Sailor Moon), but she was one of the most popular characters in the series and now, in shoujo anime, period.

Going back to Satoshi, I don't doubt that you dislike the portrayal of him because you were introduced during DP (which had a similar character as XYZ.) For you, the quintessential Satoshi is the mature, cool DP version of him, which is also one of my favorite series. Throughout Sun and Moon, he's shown himself to be brave, to work hard, smart in his own way, able to read emotions, and he's competitive.

He comforted Poipole when its friend died. He was there for his fire Pokemon and Lillie.

He's spent so much time on the road now; it makes sense that he'd have to learn common things for everyone else.

Satoshi isn't just happy all the time however that is a major defining trait of him. Even in XY, we see his wondrous trait quite often especially when it came to science because its something he's never seen before.

Satoshi has been shown to be loving and compassionate since season one but even more so as the show goes on. One of the first things Kasumi takes note about him is his love for Pokemon, in general when she sees him with Caterpie.

He's only ten years old. Satoshi is living in a very different culture than his own. He forgets things that he's tasted, just as we all do. Give me sweet potato pie, no matter how many times I've eaten before, I'm gonna be excited.



There are people who have lived 80 years and still can't cook, do dishes, or laundry. The fact is, Satoshi never had to do those things. While travelling, he's always had a companion who could do that stuff. At home, its his mom.

He still tries.

I'm good at math and writing. I was never athletic, but I could answer an algebraic expression within seconds with no calculator. With every thing else, I pretty much sucked.

The episode itself felt like a foreshadow of something to come. It didn't do a lot, but it was nice.

My problem with this portrayal of Ash is that it doesn't fit in with his portrayal in the previous series. If you think about the story in the Pokémon anime as one coherent story (which kinda was before Best Wishes came along), Ash starts out as kind an arogant trainer how acted like he was better than most other trainers, often underestimating his opponents, he was always sure on himself, full of pride an sometimes kind of a jerk. But as the OG went on we saw him grow as a Pokémon trainer and a person, to the point that he started to act less childish and we got to the point that during DP and XY he actually stated to become an inspiration to his friends, someone who was teaching them rather then being taught (but they still had moments where he learned new stuff). That's a reason why people didn't like Ash during the Best Wishes series, because the writers tried to do a soft reboot of him, taking away some of his character growth and making him forget stuff he already knew.

Take Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi (I know it seems like a weird comparison example, but hear me out). The writer/director of that movie took everything Luke went through, all of his evolution, all of his character growth and threw all of it off the window in other to have a "surprising" portrayal of the beloved character with the sole purpose to "subvert expectation", a portrayal that doesn't fit with the established character and that outright negates all of his accomplishments prior to the movie. That, to a less extrem length, happened to Ash in the Sun & Moon series. They took this pre-established character and pressed the reset button as hard as they could in order to create a portrayal of the character that is more goofy and comedic in order to... I don't know, appeal to very young children. And yes, the way one feels about a character's portrayal is subjective (and I'm not trying to tell anyone that they shouldn't like this portrayal of Ash, people can enjoy/deteste whatever they want; heck, I enjoyed Iris and Cilan as Ash's travelling companions (which are among the most hated companions of Ash), so who am I to tell you what you should and shouldn't like), but there are also objective ways (that don't factor in emotion or the way one feels) to look at a character's progression/regression. And when compared to the previous series (and taking into account the fact that they are supposed to tell a cohesive story), Sun & Moon Ash objectively goes through the latter.

I'm not trying to say that Ash should be a serious Gary Stu that is overly mature, good at everything and overcomes every challenge he faces with ease. However, there are better ways to make a character feel more relatable than to erase his previous achievements and growth (like saying that he earned badges out of pity or showing that he doesn't know the most basic of stuff that he previously knew when it came to Pokémon). With the school setting, they could have done something that further developed his previously established character growth. If you remember in the previous series, Ash struggled to anything school related (such as the Pokémon League exam in the OG series or the Trainers' School in Diamond & Pearl), so why not turn that gag into a story arc for Ash. After coming to Alola and being given the tour around the Pokémon School and befriending most of the students from Kukui's class (which could be expanded, in order to include more than just his friends and make it feel more like an actual school), have him choose to enroll in the school. However, early on he still struggles with some subjects at school, leading to some of his classmates to make fun of him and tease him. You can even have a jerk-type rival that acts like he's better than Ash because, even if he's not good at Pokémon battles, he can at least graduate from a school. This leads to Ash questioning whether he should continue studying at the school or not, he starts to feel that maybe this isn't the place for him and maybe he should give up, but his friends are there for him and they encourage him to keep going, supporting him all the way. As such he continues to study hard and, with the help of his friends, starts to succeed at more and more school subjects. I know what I've written is nothing more than fanfiction (which doesn't amount to anything considering I'm not a writer), but this had the potential to a better story than just pulling the same old tired trope of Ahs not being able to succeed at school for the sake of "comedy" (which, again, considering what he's been through the past series-es and considering that we haven't seen him in school-like environment since Diamond & Pearl, doesn't really line up with the Ash we've seen).

Anyways, I guess I should stop, since I feel like we are deviating too far from the subject of this thread (which is to review the episode in question, which I've not watched, so I can't toss in my two cents on the episode yet). Maybe once this series is done and I post a review of it, we could continue the conversation then.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

My problem with this portrayal of Ash is that it doesn't fit in with his portrayal in the previous series.

The sooner you stop thinking each Ash is a continuation of the last, the better off you'll be

Let each series stand on its own merits instead of constantly going "BUT IN THE LAST SERIES..."

 

[Pulsaro23]

The sooner you stop thinking each Ash is a continuation of the last, the better off you'll be

Well, considering each series (maybe with the exception of XY?) makes references to the previous ones (either by having past companions return, past adventures be mentioned/recounted or certain objects obtained in past journeys shown), it's not like it's at least implied that the Ash we see now is the one we've seen since the late 90s. I know one can brush these of as nothing more than easter eggs, but one can also see them as a nice way to bridge the gap between past series and make everything feel connected.

Let each series stand on its own merits instead of constantly going "BUT IN THE LAST SERIES..."

Just because a series contradicts the previous one(s) doesn't mean I'm gonna pull my pitchforks and call for the annihilation of the series that did it. In fact, despite having a somewhat similar problem to Sun & Moon when it comes to Ash and continuity, I actually enjoyed Best Wishes (with some exceptions). Don't get me wrong, it had its own problems (such as cringey or face-palming moments and not providing on promised content (like the Charizard vs Reshiram fight)), but stuff like Cilan and Iris, their interactions with Ash, most of Ash and his friends' Pokémon's personalities and development, some of the story arcs and Team Rocket finally stepping up their game made me like it. Best Wishes may not have been the best they could have done and it definitely isn't my favourite, but I didn't outright hated it (despite sometimes ignoring stuff that's canon). When it comes to a Pokémon series, continuity isn't the sole item that defines my opinion on it, but I still consider somewhat important. They don't have to constantly reference past adventures constantly, but the least they could do is not contradict them or alter them just to make a cheap joke.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because a series has some continuity problems doesn't mean that I'm gonna ignore the things it did well.

 

[kantoskies]

Leave it to the Sun&Moon series to make a Kasumi/Takeshi visit episode painfully boring...

I could forgive SM042 for being slow because it was the first time these characters had been around in years, and a slow re-introduction episode made sense. Plus it was clearly a 20th anniversary thing, so it made sense to do something. This time, though, it seems so...random? Maybe tomorrow's episode will shed some light onto the process of bringing Takeshi and Kasumi to Alola, but right now it seems weird. Are they going to do anything? Not that previous companion re-visits have been super integral to the plot, but Kasumi and Takeshi have already been here this series, so this seemed kind of redundant.

I do however continue to like Kasumi's and Suiren's relationship. And the Rocket trio is always a pleasure to watch. And despite my grumblings, it was still nice to see the original trio together at the end of the episode, if for no other reason than to remind us when the main cast had interesting dynamics.

BTW, what was the music piece that played at the very end? It sounded like an old Kanto track so I assume its from M20...?

 

[KenzeyEevee]

The only thing I remember Misty or Brock for right now is bring Mega Evolution to SM. I have the impression fans weren't that happy.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

Everyone keeps saying that the OS trio is the best yet every time the anime brings them back to that dynamic everyone complains about it

Probably nothing to read into there

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Everyone keeps saying that the OS trio is the best yet every time the anime brings them back to that dynamic everyone complains about it

Probably nothing to read into there

Lol

 

[Silktree]

They barely even interact outside of OS.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

Everyone keeps saying that the OS trio is the best yet every time the anime brings them back to that dynamic everyone complains about it

Probably nothing to read into there

Yet when they showed up last time, Sun and Moon also had its highest ratings. Many fans who saw the episode who gave reviews on YouTube, some who hadn't watxhed the show in years and especially not in Japanese, enjoyed it so much that they thought about watching the show again.

The nostalgia bait must be working...

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

The nostalgia bait must be working...

I just hope they'll give some spotlight to other previous companions as well...

 

[NeoMiniTails]

I just hope they'll give some spotlight to other previous companions as sell...

Me too... I'd love to see each main cast member from every gen meet the cast and get some spotlight.

Because the games are changing with each gen, I'm not sure how long this format will stay for Pokemon which will allow for others to show up...

 

[ii kanji]

Agree with the majority - some nice stuff but on the whole a pretty unremarkable entrance to Alola for Kasumi & Takeshi. In particular, it is extremely irritating that they left Takeshi to wallow at a Pokemon Centre for the whole day.

Kasumi did seem kinda sad underneath her enjoyment 'huh? Looking back, I felt the same when she appeared in AG too and I wonder of part of that is me projecting my own feelings, but I couldn't help but feel that for her something major is lacking in life.

In case anyone doubted the TRio's commitment to a life of crime, they expressed their horror at the idea of going full time with malasada business (BUT GUYS THIS IS ALREADY THE CASE!) In any other series I would wish for the HQ interaction to mean something more, but in SM I am fairly confident that it is foreshadowing to something, however disappointing the end result will be.

About Brock, well, he should be wearing a white coat if he is serious about being a Pokémon Doctor. Seeing him in male nurse uniforms made him look as competent as Ash and his classmates back in Real Life...Inquire Within!.

Controversial...