Review SM116: Lilie and the Secret Mechanical Princess!

[marshiyanmisuta]

Me's wondering if the image in episode of a younger Wicke and Lusamine is going to gain any traction around?

What kind of traction?

The old Pokémon would have less "let's kill the time" moments and given a proper battle to Lilie against Hala, during which she would have failed to perform the Z-move and lost the battle.

Do you mean the first two minutes? Yeah, that was random.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

I don't know why they implied this is the same Megearna from M19, because the timeline doesn't match up at all

More fuel for SM being an alternate universe from BW/XY, I suppose?

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I don't know why they implied this is the same Megearna from M19, because the timeline doesn't match up at all

More fuel for SM being an alternate universe from BW/XY, I suppose?

It isn't the same. It's literally a part of Magearna's universal lore that it was built 500 years ago in a distant kingdom to entertain a princess.

 

[Nicolas721]

The episode did a very good job of setting up Mohn's story, and Lillie's bond with it. As it was established she didn't meet him, it's nice that she created a bond with him by visiting his room. That was the kind of setup Mallow's mother lacked.

Also, young Aether group

Sadly, this episode had a big problem. Like 99% of SM's plots, where aren't given any hint as to how the 3 subplots (The search for Mohn, Lillie mastering the Z-move and Magearna's revival) will continue. Simple stuff like "The Aether foundation will look forward to human data in the Ultra Holes" or "Snowy doesn't have enough experience to pull off a Z-move" would suffice, but nope, like Lillie and TR's Z crystals, all of Ash's trials and Mallow's Shaymin we're supposed to watch cute Pokemon running around until the writers make up their minds.

 

[Rath]

I don't know why they implied this is the same Megearna from M19, because the timeline doesn't match up at all

More fuel for SM being an alternate universe from BW/XY, I suppose?

No, and it was recently confirmed anyway by TPCi that this is the same universe.

Spoiler

"Ash has left the Kalos region behind"

It takes place directly after XY, end of story

 

[Twilight-Kun]

No, and it was recently confirmed anyway by TPCi that this is the same universe.

I'd believe that if Ash's characterization during SM was anywhere remotely similar to what it's been previously

 

[DarkraiKnight]

I'd believe that if Ash's characterization during SM was anywhere remotely similar to what it's been previously

Sorry, but this statement is from an official source; I don’t think SM’s canonicity is debatable at this point.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I'd believe that if Ash's characterization during SM was anywhere remotely similar to what it's been previously

Sorry, but this statement is from an official source; I don’t think SM’s canonicity is debatable at this point.

Exactly. And why's that so weird? It has changed even more drastically before without making it non-canon.

 

[Pulsaro23]

Exactly. And why's that so weird? It has changed even more drastically before without making it non-canon.

It has? When?

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

It has? When?

Best Wishes, for example. It was completely non-sensical that Ash was made into a complete moron, yes, but it's still canon.

 

[Pulsaro23]

Best Wishes, for example. It was completely non-sensical that Ash was made into a complete moron, yes, but it's still canon.

I'll give you that BW Ash was more... inferior compared to past versions, but SM Ash is a whole new level of low for him.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I'll give you that BW Ash was more... inferior compared to past versions, but SM Ash is a whole new level of low for him.

I respectfully disagree. The SM Ash is way more competent than the BW Ash. For example, he retained his experience from the previous region and was still an experienced battler.

 

[Pulsaro23]

I respectfully disagree. The SM Ash is way more competent than the BW Ash. For example, he retained his experience from the previous region and was still an experienced battler.

I also respectfully disagree. Unlike Best Wishes, SM Ash has been turned into the butt of every joke (especially when it comes to sports). Not to mention that his characterization in this series is both inconsistent and atrocious.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I also respectfully disagree. Unlike Best Wishes, SM Ash has been turned into the butt of every joke (especially when it comes to sports). Not to mention that his characterization in this series is both inconsistent and atrocious.

I still appreciate this Ash more than the BW Ash. SM has been established to be more focused on comedy, so I can accept it.

 

[Rath]

I'd believe that if Ash's characterization during SM was anywhere remotely similar to what it's been previously

His characterization in XY was nothing like it was in BW, but no one complained about that.

Ash's characterization changing between series has been happening since DP ended. It still takes place after XY, end of story.

 

[Pulsaro23]

I still appreciate this Ash more than the BW Ash. SM has been established to be more focused on comedy, so I can accept it.

Just because it's comedic in nature, doesn't make it less terrible. The fact that every time (and I do mean every time) Ash does something he fails in the most miserable way possible makes me loose more and more respect for him. He can't make a simple sandwich, he can't play any sports (I get that not everyone is good at sports, but he's not just bad at them, he's abysmal), he can't have do some minimalist dancing choreography Pokémon (even though he's seen and participated in both contests and Pokémon Musicals). For Arceus' sake, he can't even walk straight without falling in the nearest body of water.

And say what you will about BW Ash, at least, unlike SM Ash, he didn't try to cheat (like this Ash did in Alola Open House) or forcefully and selfishly catch a Pokémon he has been travelling with against their wishes because he didn't want to let them leave him (like this Ash has done with Rotom in that one episode).

 

[Rath]

Just because it's comedic in nature, doesn't make it less terrible. The fact that every time (and I do mean every time) Ash does something he fails in the most miserable way possible makes me loose more and more respect for him. He can't make a simple sandwich, he can't play any sports (I get that not everyone is good at sports, but he's not just bad at them, he's abysmal), he can't have do some minimalist dancing choreography Pokémon (even though he's seen and participated in both contests and Pokémon Musicals). For Arceus' sake, he can't even walk straight without falling in the nearest body of water.

And say what you will about BW Ash, at least, unlike SM Ash, he didn't try to cheat (like this Ash did in Alola Open House) or forcefully and selfishly catch a Pokémon he has been travelling with against their wishes because he didn't want to let them leave him (like this Ash has done with Rotom in that one episode).

Ash isn't bad at sports, we've seen his skill at PokeBase and other PokeSports improve over the series.

And every Pokemon series is separate. You're not intended to view it all as one continuous anime, so trying to compare them and make sense of it is a futile effort.

I also respectfully disagree. Unlike Best Wishes, SM Ash has been turned into the butt of every joke (especially when it comes to sports). Not to mention that his characterization in this series is both inconsistent and atrocious.

Everyone is the butt of every joke in this series, so this is also invalid. Lillie especially also comically screws up on a regular basis.

 

[TheAerialAcer]

Just because it's comedic in nature, doesn't make it less terrible. The fact that every time (and I do mean every time) Ash does something he fails in the most miserable way possible makes me loose more and more respect for him. He can't make a simple sandwich, he can't play any sports (I get that not everyone is good at sports, but he's not just bad at them, he's abysmal), he can't have do some minimalist dancing choreography Pokémon (even though he's seen and participated in both contests and Pokémon Musicals). For Arceus' sake, he can't even walk straight without falling in the nearest body of water.

And say what you will about BW Ash, at least, unlike SM Ash, he didn't try to cheat (like this Ash did in Alola Open House) or forcefully and selfishly catch a Pokémon he has been travelling with against their wishes because he didn't want to let them leave him (like this Ash has done with Rotom in that one episode).

1. he doesn’t fail in the most miserable way possible at everything. He’s defeated all four grand trials, saved a woman from being kidnapped by an alien, helped capture and return UB’s to their universe and helped defeat a Guzzlord who was threatening the lives of the Pokémon and people who lived there.
2. he can make a sandwich, he can do laundry, he can take care of himself, it’s seen plenty of times throughout the series. In fact, past Ash was never seen making a sandwich or doing laundry or anything simple like that since he had someone else to do it for him.
3. He really isn’t that bad at sports, he goofs up once in a while but he is proven to be pretty good as seen in SM079 where he is able to defeat Kiawe in Pokémon Base.
4. He didn’t dance in contests, and in the Musical he was just being dragged around by a Gothitelle. He’s never been able to dance.
5. He’s actually acting like a 10 year old. My main issue with XYZ other than the forcefulness of Ash & Serena and a whole season dedicated to Ash-Greninja, was that he was so out of character. He somehow immediately grew up and matured. It isn’t like he aged as we know he’s been 10 forever. If anything, X&Y was the series that screwed up the continuity of Ash’s character.

 

[Pulsaro23]

Everyone is the butt of every joke in this series, so this is also invalid. Lillie especially also comically screws up on a regular basis.

That sounds a lot like herd mentality. Just because everyone does something, it doesn't make it ok. And just because I was focusing on Ash doesn't mean that I don't dislike what they've done with the rest of the cast. You can't convince me that the writers' attempts at comedy and them trying to caricaturize the main cast in filler episodes hasn't ruined their character progression. For example, in Lillie's case (since you brought her up), they decided to turn a girl who always thinks logically and who likes to study and learn by reading books into someone who believes that fantasies (like invisible bridges) are real. It even affected her progression, since, despite saying that she's aspiring to become a great Pokémon Trainer since early episodes, she rarely trains, she can't pull a Z-move, she can't even throw a Poké Ball without someone else's help. All that for the sake of giggles and cute moments.

And every Pokemon series is separate. You're not intended to view it all as one continuous anime, so trying to compare them and make sense of it is a futile effort.

Actually, the original series, Advanced Generations and Diamond & Pearl were all connected and it was quite clear that the latter were continuations of the former. Even the 2nd half of Best Wishes had connections and references to past series (despite the attempted soft reboot from the series' earlier episodes). The only one that I'd say is independent from others is XY. And even then, that series started right where BW left off (as seen in the first episodes). So no, the series aren't separate entities or independent from each other and they are, in fact, interconnected. And even if they weren't, I can still compare them because, guess what, Sun & Moon is still a Pokémon series (just like the other ones that I mentioned). So I can still compare it to the others to see how well it fares as a Pokémon series.

Ash isn't bad at sports, we've seen his skill at PokeBase and other PokeSports improve over the series.

He really isn’t that bad at sports, he goofs up once in a while but he is proven to be pretty good as seen in SM079 where he is able to defeat Kiawe in Pokémon Base.

So he got better at baseball, huh? That's nice and all, but just because he gradually got better at one sport doesn't change the fact that he still failed at: golf, Mantine Surfing (since all he did was pull off a Magikarp Splash, a move that can only be done in the games "by failing to complete any of the other moves after four maneuvers" and that has the lowest value in terms of points), jumping over a vaulting box (on multiple occasions in the same episode, I might add), Pokémon Dance, Ping Pong (a sport that he has done before), the Sled Jump competition, Olivia's Treasure Hunt and the first time he played baseball. Not to mention that he failed every challenge set by his classmates in the second episode and the fact that both Misty and Brock tried to undermine his achievements in his Kanto journey, by saying that he got their badges out of pity (which is a flat out lie and I still don't understand why they made it).

1. he doesn’t fail in the most miserable way possible at everything. He’s defeated all four grand trials, saved a woman from being kidnapped by an alien, helped capture and return UB’s to their universe and helped defeat a Guzzlord who was threatening the lives of the Pokémon and people who lived there.
2. he can make a sandwich, he can do laundry, he can take care of himself, it’s seen plenty of times throughout the series. In fact, past Ash was never seen making a sandwich or doing laundry or anything simple like that since he had someone else to do it for him.
3. He really isn’t that bad at sports, he goofs up once in a while but he is proven to be pretty good as seen in SM079 where he is able to defeat Kiawe in Pokémon Base.
4. He didn’t dance in contests, and in the Musical he was just being dragged around by a Gothitelle. He’s never been able to dance.
5. He’s actually acting like a 10 year old. My main issue with XYZ other than the forcefulness of Ash & Serena and a whole season dedicated to Ash-Greninja, was that he was so out of character. He somehow immediately grew up and matured. It isn’t like he aged as we know he’s been 10 forever. If anything, X&Y was the series that screwed up the continuity of Ash’s character.

1. I guess I didn't phrase my sentences well. What I wanted to say was that whenever he fails, he does so in the most stupid and miserable ways possible. He can't jump over a vaulting box (or walk near the ocean, for that matter), because he always has to trip. He can't win a match of Ping Pong against someone more inexperienced than him because he has to get hit in the face with the ping pong ball (by his own Pikachu, of all things). He can't even have a normal training routine with his Pikachu, without ending up with an Iron tail in the face. As for the other stuff you said: he won the last two Grand Trials because of outside interference (in the case of Nanu's (which was clearly set up to be an endurance test, so Tapu Bulu healing his Lycanroc with a berry defeated the purpose of that)) and an illogical Ash Pull (in Hapu's case); the only reason he was able to save Lusamine was because of a Deus Ex Machina that will probably never be explained, not because of his skilfulness; the UB's captures aren't a testament of his skill, since all of the ones he and the rest of the Ultra Guardians caught were captured in very silly ways and without requiring a serious battle. As for the Guzzlord argument... I got nothing on it, so I'll give you;
2. Rotom reminds Ash that he can't make a simple sandwich in episode 35, episode 6 shows that he's terrible at laundry and cooking, which is why in later episodes he's shown that he's only helping the Kukuis, by just helping Burnet to prepare the ingredients (when it comes to cooking) and taking the clothes out of the washing machine (when it comes to laundry). In fact, he, apparently, isn't allowed to do anything but help around while supervised. And helping around is something that he has done in past series, as he has been shown to help around when it came to lunch time. Also, funnily enough, his mother did comment in the last episode of Best Wishes that she can see from the way he cleaned his cap that he obviously tried to take better care of himself on his journey in Unova;
3. (Read what I said above this quote);
4. What I meant by that is that Ash has participated in a couple of contests (not to mention that he's watched dozens of them and multiple showcases) and has participated in a musical (as well as watched at least 2 of them), so one would expect him to be more... able to pull of a Pokémon dance, as well as be more creative with the dance, instead of just having his Pokémon make a "human" tower (and then have them fail comically);
5. I'm not gonna get into the age argument. What I am gonna say is that, just because he's still 10 years old doesn't mean that he can suddenly act worse than he did in the OG series. Considering what Ash has been through, all of his adventures, all of the regions he journeyed through, all of the people he's met, the friends he's made, the experiences he's gained I'd expect him to act less like a "little kid" (to quote a certain girl) and more like someone who is on his sixth adventure in his journey. That's the reason a lot of people liked XY Ash: because he acted like someone who has been on a journey for some time and someone who has learned from his past adventures (something that people expected to see in Best Wishes, hence why many didn't like it (among other reasons));

 

[IncineROAR]

So it looks like we're in for an arc with three Mythical Pokémon: Shaymin, Magearna, and Meltan. Highly rare, highly unexpected, and interesting to see the direction of how Meltan will evolve and be released, when Shaymin would fly away in Sky Forme, and how Magearna will be restored.

In before Kiawe finds a Victini or Volcanion.

I think my biggest problem with the SM anime isn't even the anime itself, it just feels like the writers didn't know how to approach the SM story so they are going in whichever direction the wind is taking them. The search for Mohn feels like a natural given, but the injection of the mythical Pokemon over the course of the last several episodes just seems super random. Meltan and Magearna are kind of obvious because they are Gen 7 Pokemon, but then there is Shaymin popping in like it's saying "hey, remember me?".

But this overall was a decent episode, and I don't say that often.