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Review SM136: Rising Fire! There's More Than One Rival!!

Okay, I'm not sure what the precedent is on trainers using items mid-battle, but the first battle's conclusion felt really cheap and unfair. Gladion, knowing Kiawe is a Fire type user, could've just as easily made Silvally any type beforehand, which at the very least gives Kiawe a chance to react. Changing it mid-battle, or even scummier mid Z-Move, doesn't give the opponent enough time to react and change their strategy. It just felt like a "get out of jail" free card when Silvally would've been rightfully punished for trapping itself, all for the sake of suspense. I did enjoy the first half of their battle.

I'm really invested in Guzma and Ash's battle though, really want to know what he was shouting at Golisopod.
 
I get the feeling the Kiteruguma scenes got repeated this episode for budgetary reasons. The show's been having to animate battle-heavy episodes nonstop for about two months now, and it didn't take its usual July movie break, and they're not able to recycle footage as much as they used to (when was the last time we saw the Rocket motto?), and they're having to employ an entire series' worth of voice actors for basically every episode now, and they're probably busy trying to plan out the Sword & Shield series, and...

It's not surprising the show's taking shortcuts whenever it can.
This episode in particular felt very "low cost" as in a lot of animation was recycled, and we got almost as much "character standing still with their moth flapping" as any non-SM Pokémon series. It's understandable though, a weekly schedule can cause all forms of havoc in production.
 
This episode in particular felt very "low cost" as in a lot of animation was recycled, and we got almost as much "character standing still with their moth flapping" as any non-SM Pokémon series. It's understandable though, a weekly schedule can cause all forms of havoc in production.
Pretty much, and even then the Ash vs Guzma part was still pretty well animated, even aside from stock footage
 
Why is U-Turn seen as a dirty tactic but Gladion throwing Silvally a Memory during an official battle isn’t?

Had Silvally been sent out with the memory I could understand, but Gladion actively used an outside force to give his pokemon a boost while exploiting the current battle curcumstances. How’s that not cheating?

Because Pokemon are allowed to use their abilities in general. Or did you forget that it is Silvally's ability to change types?

Due to the rules of Pokemon battling, all aspects of a Pokemon must be permitted in battling, even if gives a player or Pokemon advantage. You can't cry foul just because a water type defeated your fire type Pokemon.

Now maybe to ensure some fairness, maybe Gladion is only allowed to change Silvally's typing once during the battle. But it should be allowed because that's what it can do, and on top of that Gladion can only switch Silvally's typing once it is sent out, can't do it within its Poke ball, so that might be their justification. Gladion knew Kiawe would use fire types, and ha

The games technical limitations or in this case forced technical limitations is the only reason we (the gamers) can't do it in the game. And I said "forced technical limitations" because I know of some RPGs that let you switch items on your characters from what you have in your bag, using a turn though.
 
Because Pokemon are allowed to use their abilities in general. Or did you forget that it is Silvally's ability to change types?
Only while using an external item. It would’ve been perfectly not-dirty if Silvally already entered equipped with a memory.
Gladion literally did it mid Z-Move. By that logic Gladion can be throwing memories like ninja stars on Silvally to make it immune to every move an opponent makes.

The tactic was meh in my opinion, felt tacked upon, and is just as strategic-dirty-according to rules as any of Guzma's tactics.
 
Look at this please
But why Gladion 3 as Ash uses 4??
 

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Only while using an external item. It would’ve been perfectly not-dirty if Silvally already entered equipped with a memory.
Except Silvally wasn't equipped with a memory when entering the battle. It was item less. On top that still ignores the issue that Silvally is unlike other normal Pokemon. Certain Pokemon clearly have to have special extra conditions to be used in battle, that should deem it acceptable.

If there was a Pokemon that couldn't function (hypothetically) unless the trainer threw certain items at it, at a regular pace, requiring special energy to function (think of something like a coal engine or steam engine Pokemon that requires you to toss coal into it to function).. Don't you think the rules of a Pokemon battle MUST include that special inclusion in order to allow the trainer to use the Pokemon, otherwise what, you are only one item and if your Pokemon stops working or stops functioning, what.....you lose the round? It doesn't make sense.

And as for fairness......well like I said, you can't complain that a water type defeated your fire type. There's always going to be Pokemon that have HUGE advantages over other Pokemon. Torracat vs Scisor for example, the victory comes from being able to overcome those challenging difficulties.

I really don't see much of a difference between a Water type vs a rock/ground Pokemon and Gladion using the memories, in a very realistic logical way. Nothing would prevent Gladion from switching memories in his Pokemon, except for extremely arbitrary rules that cannot make any sense given that while Gladion has a Silvally, its basically the only one in existence (until something changes).

Similarly to Faba complaining that Meltan ate his Hypno's pendulum and Hala said it was Meltan's natural abilities.

It's extremely rare to EVER have a 1:1 ratio in respects to fairness and equal in terms of fighting, because there are so many variables to consider. There needs to be some kind of allowance otherwise basically you don't get sympathy just because you lost "unfairly."

Heck look at the games, you can heal your Pokemon with a full restore WITHIN the games, something the ANIME has never really done except in very rare instances. How unfair is it to the player to be "this" close to defeating the champion, you just need one quick attack to finish it, and the champion uses a full restore and then defeats you. Don't you think something like that would be considered FAR more unfair since it has nothing to do with the Pokemon itself and has everything to do with the trainer's decision and influence of the battle.

And yet.....that's a game mechanic that both certain NPCs have been programmed to be able to do, and the player is well. Imagine in real life being the champion, and you lose to a challenger because they used 100 full restores. How humiliating would that be that you could've defeated them, you were strong enough, but the human trainer decided to affect the outcome by healing their Pokemon all the way.

Why would that be acceptable in a battle? But not changing a Pokemon's type? Is it really because its not a game mechanic?

Gladion literally did it mid Z-Move. By that logic Gladion can be throwing memories like ninja stars on Silvally to make it immune to every move an opponent makes.
Except that poses a real issue of how is Gladion supposed to receive the memory that Silvally already has if he wishes to switch to a new one. I doubt it launches back towards Gladion, though I could be misrembering any past episodes where it showed this exact thing.

At the very least I would be more understanding, if Gladion had switched memories, instead of just giving one to Silvally.
 
Because Pokemon are allowed to use their abilities in general. Or did you forget that it is Silvally's ability to change types?

Due to the rules of Pokemon battling, all aspects of a Pokemon must be permitted in battling, even if gives a player or Pokemon advantage. You can't cry foul just because a water type defeated your fire type Pokemon.

Now maybe to ensure some fairness, maybe Gladion is only allowed to change Silvally's typing once during the battle. But it should be allowed because that's what it can do, and on top of that Gladion can only switch Silvally's typing once it is sent out, can't do it within its Poke ball, so that might be their justification. Gladion knew Kiawe would use fire types, and ha

The games technical limitations or in this case forced technical limitations is the only reason we (the gamers) can't do it in the game. And I said "forced technical limitations" because I know of some RPGs that let you switch items on your characters from what you have in your bag, using a turn though.
Still, this isn’t a spontaneous ability like the others that change types. Color Change doesn’t have user input, Protean has a maximum of four types and the likes of Electrify or Aerilate are specific.

RKS System offers you free will to pick any type at any time you want with guaranteed STAB if it’s allowed just like this. If Turtonator used Earthquake, Gladion could just throw a flying memory. If Turtonator followed with Stone Edge, turn into a ground type and finish it with Multi Attack. It’s a strategy the opponent can’t possibly hope to counter because Gladion would have 18 types to choose from at any given moment, giving him an unfair advantage.
 
Watching the scenes with Bewear and Stufful, I was really hoping they'd realize what Team Rocket have been up to so that they'd go and collect them before their plans take place

Sadly it didn't happen but would have helped redeem their scenes
 
Except Silvally wasn't equipped with a memory when entering the battle. It was item less. On top that still ignores the issue that Silvally is unlike other normal Pokemon. Certain Pokemon clearly have to have special extra conditions to be used in battle, that should deem it acceptable.
If there was a Pokemon that couldn't function (hypothetically) unless the trainer threw certain items at it, at a regular pace, requiring special energy to function (think of something like a coal engine or steam engine Pokemon that requires you to toss coal into it to function).. Don't you think the rules of a Pokemon battle MUST include that special inclusion in order to allow the trainer to use the Pokemon, otherwise what, you are only one item and if your Pokemon stops working or stops functioning, what.....you lose the round? It doesn't make sense.
This entire paragraph is meaningless for the topic at hand because Silvally is perfectly functional without memories.
Silvally walking in with a memory is perfectly acceptable. Silvally changing memories right and left in the middle of the battle is the grey area.

I really don't see much of a difference between a Water type vs a rock/ground Pokemon
The difference is that the initial Match up was Electric vs Rock/Ground but the opponent changed it to Water vs Rock/Ground for his convenience and would effectively always remain on top in type matchups.
And as for fairness......well like I said, you can't complain that a water type defeated your fire type. There's always going to be Pokemon that have HUGE advantages over other Pokemon. Torracat vs Scisor for example, the victory comes from being able to overcome those challenging difficulties.
Wrong analogy again. If Scizor suddenly began resisting Torracat’s moves right before the Z-Move hit, that’d be the correct one.

You’re quoting regular static type advantages as example, which isn’t working because Silvally can constantly change types in this hypothetical situation.

How humiliating would that be that you could've defeated them, you were strong enough, but the human trainer decided to affect the outcome by healing their Pokemon all the way.

Why would that be acceptable in a battle? But not changing a Pokemon's type? Is it really because its not a game mechanic?
I don’t think that’d be acceptable in the anime because healing mid battle is clearly uncommon and rarely happens, to the point of never having happened at a league battle. It seems to be frowned upon outside of special circumstances like Alain battling 10 Pokemon back to back.

Its just a question of the ethical set one uses.

Gladion’s strategy didn’t bother me much, but it’d be infinitely better if he had changed Silvally’s type right at the beginning of the battle. The situation we got was clearly pulled for shock value.
 
Again, a great and totally intense episode which I thoroughly enjoyed!

Gladion vs Kiawe

Literally, a "hot" battle. Kiawe's Z-move was so spectacular but my most favorite scene was when Silvally's outlines slowly started to appear within the flames combined with that cool piece of rock music. That sure gave me goosebumps! Yes, we already knew who would win but nevertheless, the conclusion of the battle was done very well in this episode.

Now as for the question "Was it legit to change Silvally's memory disc right in the middle of the battle?" :
Well, I do understand those guys saying that it felt cheap because Gladion could change discs as often as he wants, leaving his opponents with no chance to defeat him. I don't have a clear opinion on this, however I'm inclined to say that it was a legitimate strategy.
Look: Yes, it's true that Gladion could change discs every round...theoretically! We've never seen any battle so far where this startegy would have been used in an unfair way, like changing discs 10 times or so. There seems to be an unwritten ethical codex according to which trainers simply don't do that.
Given that "RKS System" is Silvally's official ability, the trainer has the right to make use of that ability whenever necessary. Let me give you two examples to underline what I just said:
  • Was Tobias (the guy who won the Sinnoh League) disqualified just because he only used legendary Pokemon? Some guys might object that was also unfair. But no, he wasn't
  • Is it considered unfair if Cubone, Marowak or Farfetch'd (just to name a few) use external objects as tools in battle? It is seen as totally legit.

Ash vs Guzma
Also a really intense battle! Great to see U-turn and Emergency Exit in batlle.
My favorite scenes where when Torracat was doing so well against Golisopod despite the type disadvantage and when the latter messed things up by using Emergeny Exit. That shot of Guzma being totally speechless was priceless. Serves him right!

Cliffhangers might not be popular but it helps keeping up the suspense. So, as always, I'm already looking forward to the second part of that intense battle!
 
Given that "RKS System" is Silvally's official ability, the trainer has the right to make use of that ability whenever necessary.
I think the issue (at least in my opinion) is that the ability should’ve been made use of before the battle began, or when silvally was sent out. Silvally’s ability isn’t like other conventional abilities since it needs an item to work, and Gladion throwing an item right before the Z-Move hits looked cool on the surface, but meh after I thought a little about it.
How would it have been any different from throwing a full restore?

Is it considered unfair if Cubone, Marowak or Farfetch'd (just to name a few) use external objects as tools in battle? It is seen as totally legit.
They usually use those tools throughout the battle without changing them: what if Farfetch’d replaced its leek with a steel sword, or a large shield right in the middle of battle?

In the end though, it isn’t major for me but the battle would’ve been much better without it. And the situation wasn’t so noticeable due to the immediate next battle being well written.
 
The battle between Gladion and Kiawe turned out to be... pretty mediocre. Nothing awful, but nothing particularly spectacular, especially since it ended on such a lackluster note (also Z-moves are once again a joke in this series). The Guzma battle is where the really interesting action is. I'm actually eager to see how it'll turn out for Guzma.
 
Watching the scenes with Bewear and Stufful, I was really hoping they'd realize what Team Rocket have been up to so that they'd go and collect them before their plans take place

Sadly it didn't happen but would have helped redeem their scenes
I have a looming suspicion it'll show up just in time to stop Team Rocket's mecha when they finally get it up and running.
 
This entire paragraph is meaningless for the topic at hand because Silvally is perfectly functional without memories.
Silvally walking in with a memory is perfectly acceptable. Silvally changing memories right and left in the middle of the battle is the grey area.
I was pointing out the hypothetical because the rules of battle would have to include that feature of a Pokemon, if you can give a memory to Silvally to change its type, then its literally the same logic that a trainer should be able to use items on a Pokemon in order to function. Sure one is necessary while the other one isn't, but that doesn't change the fact that the precedent would have to be made. This is different than healing your Pokemon mid battle because that has nothing to do with the Pokemon itself, no ability no move (as of yet) and is just the trainer influence the battle.

The difference is that the initial Match up was Electric vs Rock/Ground but the opponent changed it to Water vs Rock/Ground for his convenience and would effectively always remain on top in type matchups.

Wrong analogy again. If Scizor suddenly began resisting Torracat’s moves right before the Z-Move hit, that’d be the correct one.[/quote] That's not the best counterargument because it happens regardless. this isn't a special unique case except method. Did you forget that there are moves as well as abilities that change the typing of Pokemon. As much as I hated the battle, Hapu's Mudsdale became a water type and was affected by electric type attacks, simply by being soaked by water. Or like what was said about color change or Protean. These instances DO happen, there is precedence.

There is no difference here, other than the strange position that a trainer is unable to fully use a Pokemon's ability because it has to use an item to do so? Despite many times, a Pokemon's natural ability is allowed to be use during battle even as morally gray it appears, or even people (in the anime) not happy about it. Like Faba being mad at Meltan for eating Hypno's Pendulum.

If you allow an instance of a Pokemon to be used in one way, you have to be willing to allow all similar things to happen regardless of the circumstances, otherwise you would create a very unfair balance that prohibits trainers from using methods that they should use in favor of only a ONE specific instance, which creates favoritism towards the one situation/circumstance.

Which was my point with the Pokemon needing to function by throwing items at it, it's part of the Pokemon's ability, the weird position on not letting a different Pokemon not use its ability because it uses a slightly different method, would be unfair to the Pokemon being used. It's also a spit on logic that states nothing would prohibit Gladion from using a memory on Silvally in a battle, in a concept that is not limited by technical limitations (IE Anime vs Games).

Basically my argument is: Not being able to use items on a Pokemon whose ability depends on it (while not necessary) is just a weird position to take in a Pokemon battle, when there's plenty of precedence already. A trainer throwing an item at his/her Pokemon even mid battle to affect the Pokemon's ability regardless of its necessary or not should be allowed as apparently manipulating a Pokemon using moves and abilities that don't require direct outside trainer influence is already allowed.

I just find that position strange, because its prohibiting a Pokemon from using its ability. Especially with Sword and Shield coming up, and you can dynamax MID battle.

Which then brings up the point, why is mega evolution and dynamax allowed when they use items directly from the trainer, I mean as you argued it wasn't necessary for Silvally to use its ability. Neither is technically mega evolution, and it definitely does create that point.

For example, mega evolving Audino to make it immune to dragon types? Why is that allowed but Gladion can't use a memory to change his Pokemon's type, when its part of the Pokemon's ability.

Again the only difference is game mechanics.

You’re quoting regular static type advantages as example, which isn’t working because Silvally can constantly change types in this hypothetical situation.
Only if you assume Silvally is allowed to change memories, rather than just be given a memory which is what happened in this episode. Silvally was a normal type, not a grass/bug/ice/steel type. There was no real reason to change its type as normal type, unless the writers wanted to admit subtly that Gladion would've lost.

If Gladion actually switches between types, then I'm more inclined to

Gladion’s strategy didn’t bother me much, but it’d be infinitely better if he had changed Silvally’s type right at the beginning of the battle. The situation we got was clearly pulled for shock value.
Was it though? It was bizarre that Gladion even used regular Silvally without a memory when he should've had the fire memory attached to begin with. The only thing that this really showed, was that it was even allowed.
 
The end of Gladion vs Kiawe felt rushed and disappointing. Even if Turtnotator was tired, Gladion didn't use many smart tactics or moves and just spammed Crush Claw.

Guzma vs Ash was decent. It was interesting how some factors from the games had an impact on Guzma's strategy and overall it flowed well. However, although I appreciate a smarter Ash from the one we've seen so far, I'd liked him to suffer more at Guzma's hands before his breakdown.

This episode also had good small moments all around that somewhat made up for both battles' mistakes, with Lillie and Mimo's bonding, Lana and Primarina's desire for justice, Kiawe and Gladion's rival declaration and the details on Guzma's past.
 
The end of Gladion vs Kiawe felt rushed and disappointing. Even if Turtnotator was tired, Gladion didn't use many smart tactics or moves and just spammed Crush Claw.
imo the battle would’ve been better if they finished it in the previous episode. There wasn’t really a need to have a part two and there really wasn’t enough “battle content” to justify it. Also, viewers could have forgotten about the damage Turtonator previously took from Lycanroc and can be confused as to why he went down so fast. I feel like the battle would’ve been more satisfying and fulfilled if it was done in one episode. Some cliffhangers are suspenseful, but others are just unnecessary.
 
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