Preview SM139: Birth! The Alola Champion!!

[Galactic_V]

We don't needed to wait until Sunday to see who won. Because, in Friday they will spoil everything with the special preview. If Gladion or Ash walked out. Then, we already know the result. Just like the one from episode 137. Guzma walked off and his gang member waiting for him, before moving on.

I don't think they'd spoil the winner just like that, a couple of days before the episode. As far as I remember no one knew who'd win the Kalos League until the episode aired (there was even rumors about Flare-dan interrupting Satoshi and Alan's battle).

In other sagas Satoshi never made it to the finals so it wasn't that hard to know he wasn't gonna win since the title'd spoil the league-end (like "Isshu League Conclusion", and such)

 

[Singaporean]

I don't think they'd spoil the winner just like that, a couple of days before the episode. As far as I remember no one knew who'd win the Kalos League until the episode aired (there was even rumors about Flare-dan interrupting Satoshi and Alan's battle).

In other sagas Satoshi never made it to the finals so it wasn't that hard to know he wasn't gonna win since the title'd spoil the league-end (like "Isshu League Conclusion", and such)

Very hard to say, Anything is possible, because majority of this episode are very much battle and not missing anything except for the Team Rocket segment going to grab by Bewear and take them back to their secret headquarter again. But we shall see, how they represent us this Friday.

 

[Pulsaro23]

not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts

If you just keep saying same false statement in reworded wall of texts, I don't see any merit or worth in this discussion.

Okay, I really need to stop writing these responses long past midnight, since my brain's clearly not awake enough to make coherent arguments.

First of all, while yes, the verb "to represent" can be synonymous with "to be", the word itself has more than 4 distinct definition (and that's not even counting the variations of these definitions). And based on the context, I don't believe that it was used with the meaning that you're implying (since, wouldn't it sound strange if we were to replace "representing" with "being" in this specific context; doesn't the sentence "in considering and being facts" sound weird, since why would you need to consider a fact if it is a fact?).

Second of all, even if they were facts, that wouldn't mean that they cannot be disproven. Again, the idea of Pluto being a planet was considered fact, until evidence that disproven this was discovered, leading to it being reclassified as a dwarf planet. So, even if I believed my statements to be facts (which, allow me to reiterate, I do NOT believe that my objective opinions are undeniable facts (maybe if I bold it and underline it, you will see and read it)), that doesn't mean that they are 100% correct and that they are irrefutable and impossible to disprove, as there is a clear precedent for that.

As for my posts being too long, you do know that those "walls of text" aren't me saying "I'm right!" in a thousand different words? Those long responses are me trying to explain my position, arguing why I have that position and trying to make things easier to understand from my perspective (which, obviously isn't working well). But, since my argumentative skills aren't that great, how about this: Here's the video that I linked earlier (which, hey, it even has a short reference to Pokémon at one pint, so I guess it's appropriate):

Spoiler: Video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9QU9JouSBs

And here are the timestamps for when he tackles stuff relevant to our current conversation (since it would be hard to watch the entire video in one go): from 0:02 to 29:30, from 33:19 to 38:16, form 40:19 to 41:14 or from 57:10 to 1:13:38.

You can watch all of these portions of the video, some of them or only just one of them. Hopefully, it does a better job of clearing things up than I've been doing for the past couple of pages.

 

[Daenerys]

Not all controversies fade into oblivion over time. You still can't bring up Porygon, Jynx, Kadabra, and the change in voice actors in 2006 without triggering a flame war even in 2019. If the writers decide to have Ash continue losing leagues over the coming centuries, it won't help the reputation. Even if they don't care about the increasing negative reception, how many shows continued on after their ratings hit rock bottom?

To be fair, I don't think you can really compare Porygon (seizures), Jynx (blackface/racism) and Kadabra (a lawsuit) to people whining online about Ash losing a League. In the case of those three Kanto Pokemon controversies, they were threatening the livelihood of the franchise, whereas fans complain about everything that the show does anyway, so if they complain if Ash loses then it'll just be more of the same. It isn't really in the same league (no pun intended).

 

[KyseL]

I have a question here; does anyone know the story of the animation director for this episode, Reina Yamazaki, and why he’s so good? I mean, I tried looking up info about him, and all I got was that he was involved in a couple of scenes for this series and was the head animation director for episode 130. Based on the preview, the fact that he’s handling such an animation heavy episode so well from what I presume is very little experience makes me wonder what his story is to get him to this point.

I ran into the same wall when looking it up back in SM130. Looks like the romanization of her name is all over the place. In Bulbapedia she's cited as both Reina Yamazaki and (for some reason) Rei Yamazaki. In other websites I've found her being credited as Rena Yamazaki.

Aside from this episode, so far she's worked on SM069, SM075, SM086, SM096, SM108, SM118, SM130, and the "sad scene" in Your Adventure. There could be more, though.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I ran into the same wall when looking it up back in SM130. Looks like the romanization of her name is all over the place. In Bulbapedia she's cited as both Reina Yamazaki and (for some reason) Rei Yamazaki. In other websites I've found her being credited as Rena Yamazaki.

Aside from this episode, so far she's worked on SM069, SM075, SM086, SM096, SM108, SM118, SM130, and the "sad scene" in Your Adventure. There could be more, though.

Great. Now we have two different names for her on Bulbapedia due to this inconsistency...

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Second of all, even if they were facts, that wouldn't mean that they cannot be disproven.

A disproven fact would stop being a fact.

First of all, while yes, the verb "to represent" can be synonymous with "to be", the word itself has more than 4 distinct definition (and that's not even counting the variations of these definitions). And based on the context, I don't believe that it was used with the meaning that you're implying (since, wouldn't it sound strange if we were to replace "representing" with "being" in this specific context; doesn't the sentence "in considering and being facts" sound weird, since why would you need to consider a fact if it is a fact?).

Is there a point in this wall of text? Doesn't seem the case.

 

[Pulsaro23]

Is there a point in this wall of text? Doesn't seem the case.

You bolded the phrase "representing facts" so as to prove that objective opinion = fact. That "wall of text" is me explaining why that isn't necessarily the case. Thanks for reading what I said and not dismissing it because it's too long.

A disproven fact would stop being a fact.

True. But you would need to disprove it first. And (in the case of an episode of a cartoon/anime/show) with evidence that matches what actually happened in that episode (and, depending on the context, the overall show).

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

You bolded the phrase "representing facts" so as to prove that objective opinion = fact. That "wall of text" is me explaining why that isn't necessarily the case.

Then you failed to give any reason for that.

True. But you would need to disprove it first. And (in the case of an episode of a cartoon/anime/show) with evidence that matches what actually happened in that episode (and, depending on the context, the overall show).

This again? Let me show you the difference:

Rowlet fell asleep during the match, which result in a "fake defeat" = fact
It was a case of bad writing to play with viewers emotions like that = opinion

 

[Pulsaro23]

Then you failed to give any reason for that.

while yes, the verb "to represent" can be synonymous with "to be", the word itself has more than 4 distinct definition (and that's not even counting the variations of these definitions). And based on the context, I don't believe that it was used with the meaning that you're implying (since, wouldn't it sound strange if we were to replace "representing" with "being" in this specific context; doesn't the sentence "in considering and being facts" sound weird, since why would you need to consider a fact if it is a fact?).

Again, thanks for reading.

This again? Let me show you the difference:

Rowlet fell asleep during the match, which result in a "fake defeat" = fact
It was a case of bad writing to play with viewers emotions like that = opinion

You know, I can play this game as well.

Rowlet falling asleep in the middle of that battle contradicts the way its character was portrayed prior to the match and during its second battle with Dartrix = fact
You not having a problem with it, thus saying that it is not objectively bad or poorly written = your subjective opinion

Also, that video I keep reposting in the hopes that you'll actually watch it tackles this issue at 40:19-41:14 and (somewhat to a lesser extent) 57:10-1:13:38.

 

[Panky..]

@Pulsaro23 @martianmister
Chill out and take the philosophical debate to your DMs, you're sidetracking here (though I agree with Pulsaro).

 

[Pulsaro23]

@Pulsaro23 @martianmister
Chill out and take the philosophical debate to your DMs, you're sidetracking here (though I agree with Pulsaro).

Personally, I am perfectly calm. And, besides, if this discussion is getting out of hand, then it's my understanding that one of the admins will come and put a stop to it.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Again, thanks for reading.

Being objective had nothing to do with facts, because in dictionary there is four distinct definitions of "representing" and I use that to put doubt on the definition I disagree with, even though none of those four distinct definitions support my point.

Yeah, no.

You know, I can play this game as well.

I really hope you're not serious with this.

Also, that video I keep reposting in the hopes that you'll actually watch it tackles this issue at 40:19-41:14 and (somewhat to a lesser extent) 57:10-1:13:38.

I'm not supporting some hate based channel. Please stop advertising it.

 

[Neo Blaze]

I agree that the subjectivity vs. objectivity debate has derailed the thread so please drop it and move on. Thanks.

 

[Pulsaro23]

I agree that the subjectivity vs. objectivity debate has derailed the thread so please drop it and move on. Thanks.

One quick question (before I drop the subject entirely): Am I allowed to create a new thread that focuses on this topic, be it on the Anime section (since the Hau battle started this whole discussion) or the Writers Workshop (since this topic is about writing and storytelling and whether it can be assessed both objectively and subjectively or just subjectively)?

 

[Neo Blaze]

One quick question (before I drop the subject entirely): Am I allowed to create a new thread that focuses on this topic, be it on the Anime section (since the Hau battle started this whole discussion) or the Writers Workshop (since this topic is about writing and storytelling and whether it can be assessed both objectively and subjectively or just subjectively)?

I'm going to have to say no, on both sections. I understand your request but these two sections both have their respective focus. Subjectivity vs. objectivity is something that applies to the anime (and the written word) of course, but it's a broad subject that can be applied to nearly anything really. Such a thread would stray away too much from the general focus of this (or other) section(s).

If you really wish to continue this debate though, you are more than welcome to write an essay or something along those lines in BulbaBlogs. This section offers more freedom in whatever you want to talk about (within rule boundaries of course), free from boundaries that other sections have.

With that said, I'd like to request everyone to continue discussing the episode at hand.

 

[TheAerialAcer]

Aside from this episode, so far she's worked on SM069, SM075, SM086, SM096, SM108, SM118, SM130

These are all some of my favorite episodes of the series... major props to this lady!

Also, I really hope they don’t get rid of Ash in the SwSh series. I’m open to change in the anime and actually embrace it, but getting rid of Ash would just be too big of a change for me to handle. Ash was and still is my favorite television character and it would be heartbreaking to see him go. If they want to create a new side series with a new protagonist or something similar to Chronicles, I would be all over that. I personally just don’t want Ash to leave.

 

[Gold Experience]

I don’t know why you guys are so concerned about Ash leaving. 9 times out of 10 Ash will be staying. Do you really think they will get rid of him.

 

[Shadao]

Let me tell you something, the animators and writer doesn't care about any of there. As long as they got paid to do their job and this episode is another proved reason. Why they needed Ash to get another L once more. It is the tradition of the cycle that continuously forever to let the show goes on until they don't have anymore idea to produced more stuff. As for getting backlash is only temporarily, just awhile later and everything will be back to normal.

Why on earth would you focus on animators and writers? It's not them would makes the call; it's the executives and the series director who calls the shots. If the writers have their way, Takeshi Shudō would have made his visual novel ideas into reality, complete with a depressing outlook on the Pokémon world.

And honestly, I do believe the backlash has gotten up to the SM director because for the first time, he actually addressed the whole question of "Pokémon Master" where he stated that being a Pokémon Master is not simply about winning Pokémon Leagues. Why would he address that? Is it because he had heard from the fans that if you win a Pokémon League, you become a Pokémon Master?

Then I see this whole campaign of the Alola League which showcases Ash participating in the Pokémon Leagues from Indigo to Kalos.



I've never seen this happen before. Not even for the Kalos League. There was never a montage of Ash's previous Leagues. Nor was there any talks about how Ash never won a League (not counting the Orange League of course) in the 22 years. The closest was Team Rocket during the Kalos League realizing that Ash made to the finals as a sort of meta commentary for older viewers.

And I ask myself, why on Earth are they bringing this up? Why bring up the previous Leagues, the previous losses, and a Hawaii contest to predict the winner if the status quo would be the same? Why even bring Professor Oak and Delia to personally watch the League when they haven't done so since Johto?

If this was maintaining status quo, they would never bring up old wounds like this in risk of backlash. They've done it low-key before in DP and BW (and even XY in comparison), why wouldn't they do it now here?

 

[Singaporean]

I've never seen this happen before. Not even for the Kalos League. There was never a montage of Ash's previous Leagues. Nor was there any talks about how Ash never won a League (not counting the Orange League of course) in the 22 years. The closest was Team Rocket during the Kalos League realizing that Ash made to the finals as a sort of meta commentary for older viewers.

And I ask myself, why on Earth are they bringing this up? Why bring up the previous Leagues, the previous losses, and a Hawaii contest to predict the winner if the status quo would be the same? Why even bring Professor Oak and Delia to personally watch the League when they haven't done so since Johto?

If this was maintaining status quo, they would never bring up old wounds like this in risk of backlash. They've done it low-key before in DP and BW (and even XY in comparison), why wouldn't they do it now here?

Because, they given us false hope just to let the people to watch again and see Ash getting the L once more.