Review SM142: Burn! Swell Up!! Full Battle!!!

[MegaGreninga]

Royal mask definitely trained his Pokémon strong enough for this tournament I think he train Braviery more as I remember it lost to mega argogon from team rocket...

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Royal mask definitely trained his Pokémon strong enough for this tournament I think he train Braviery more as I remember it lost to mega argogon from team rocket...

Kukui. Not Royal.

 

[dman_dustin]

From my understanding, @Panky..'s problem with this wasn't that it didn't make sense, but that it happened too quickly. Lycanronc barely managed to do anything to Braviary before being knocked out. It just got to hurt him with Bite and then it got KO'd by a Sky Drop + Superpower combo. The writers could've had Lycanroc do more in the battle prior to getting hit with Sky Drop, but they didn't. Which is the reason why the KO feels rushed (and the fact that it seems to have been rushed for the sake of giving Rowlet's idiotic and repetitive gags more screen time makes it even worse). This was the big issue with Lycanroc's defeat. Not the fact that it didn't survive an overpowered chain of attacks.

And yet people still don't seem to understand that this is a 22 minute episode, and not a 24/7 series. They have to focus on other things, they choose, we can dislike those choices, sure, but clearly the point of the episode wasn't Lycanroc vs Braviary.

Well, that's a strawman if I've ever seen one.

Who even said that? No, seriously. Who the hell said that Lycanroc is now trash/worthless because it's not invincible?

Because that's the only way it would've been able to survive the attacks is BY being invincible.

Or in your opinion do you think Gladion's Lycanroc would've fared better?

Either you accept Braviary being ridiculously overpowered and Lycanroc did its best despite the circumstances or the argument here is Lycanroc is "trash" (or more trash than not trash) and didn't actually deserve to beat Gladion's Lycanroc (which a few people, I might add, already had a problem with it) because it somehow should've been more invincible and survive the attacks and kept battling.

I think it's hard for me to rationalize that anyone who legitimately had a problem, don't automatically undervalue Lycanroc because of its performance. Because if there wasn't a lesser opinion of Lycanroc, why wouldn't you accept the loss as it is, and realizing Kukui had the upper hand with obviously powerful attacks.

I mean if the argument is Braviary shouldn't have been portrayed as that powerful given its loss to Rowlet, I'd be more understanding of the point here. But I genuinely don't see how any normal Pokemon (that is the size or smaller than Braviary), especially a rock wolf that's about 2 feet high and maybe 3 feet long (if we go by Midnight). Would be able to survive hitting the ground at a velocity I assume is much higher than terminal velocity (which anime wise, would completely have to ignore the flying type element at this point because I don't think hitting the ground qualifies as a flying element), let alone a direct hit with a super effective hit (one that is initially one of the strongest fighting type moves out there).

It's almost like expecting a field mouse being able to survive an owl or another bird of prey in real life. Like I'm honestly surprised Lycanroc was even able to survive as long as it did because the attacks it received were brutal.

But I guess ultimately, maybe it is possible that I'm wrong and there are people who had a legitimate problem who still think Lycanroc is one of Ash's best Pokemon. I just have a hard time believing it with the argument "Lycanroc knocked out too soon" like there has to be SOME undervalue of Lycanroc as a Pokemon if you believe it got knocked out too soon or at least a 0.01% lesser opinion of Lycanroc but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Doesn't make sense to me, but I guess that doesn't matter.

Do we even know if Melmetal knows Thunderbolt? It was only used in its debut and even then, is there any proof that the Meltan that used it is the one that Ash caught? I hope it doesn’t know Thunderbolt, that would make Ash’s choices of moves more understandable.

They did focus on a particular Meltan, that seemed to follow a path leading it to the classroom with Rowlet that was Ash's Meltan and that one did use an electric type attack.

BUT its very possible that either:

A). IT was actually a different Meltan, for whatever reason they'd want to focus on a sole Meltan that wasn't going to be Ash's.
B). They didn't want Ash's Meltan to have an electric type move, because they wanted it to have a limiting movepool, but allowed to have one in its debut just to give it more focus.

 

[Knightwolf09]

I mean Lycanroc was dropped from the sky and hit with Superpower, a powerful Fighting type move. Not to mention we've been seen Kukui's Braviary is rather powerful. In anime standards, yeah Lycanroc lost believably.

 

[Gabo2oo]

Idk, I felt like it was all very believable too. I mean objectively speaking, yes, Lycanroc fainted quicker than the others, but come on, they really depicted that Sky Drop as being very powerful and it had a lot of build-up from such height too. (Maybe it was just me being more invested in the battle than usual but I physically winced when they hit the ground lol)

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Yeah, Lugarugan's defeat was believable for me as well. It was a KO move, even Lugarugan's being able to walk away after that was impressive.

Kukui. Not Royal.

Royal Mask. Not Kukui.

 

[TheAerialAcer]

Idk, I felt like it was all very believable too. I mean objectively speaking, yes, Lycanroc fainted quicker than the others, but come on, they really depicted that Sky Drop as being very powerful and it had a lot of build-up from such height too. (Maybe it was just me being more invested in the battle than usual but I physically winced when they hit the ground lol)

I agree. Pretty sure Rotom said that they were 1,000 meters (maybe 900) off the ground. An impact from that attack should honestly kill almost any Pokémon.

 

[Beatsy Ray]

Idk, I felt like it was all very believable too. I mean objectively speaking, yes, Lycanroc fainted quicker than the others, but come on, they really depicted that Sky Drop as being very powerful and it had a lot of build-up from such height too. (Maybe it was just me being more invested in the battle than usual but I physically winced when they hit the ground lol)

I agree. I think this is case of anime logic rather than game logic. That Sky Drop looked painful, and you can say the same thing about the Double Iron Bash on Empoleon, even though it should have been resisted it was such a powerful attack that it broke through it's defenses. I'm glad that they are depicting Ash's Pokemon surviving really powerful attacks, only to still be defeated shortly after. The same thing happened with Rowlet. It's making the battle way less predictable than then previous ones this league. The only very unrealistic part for me was Rowlet taking down Braviary, but it had taken a lot of damage by that time so I give it a pass.

Also Rowlet and Lycanroc both won their earlier respective battles, so I think the writers are trying to stress how much stronger Kukui is by defeating them both with ease. I'd chalk both of their losses up to Ash being overwhelmed and not being able to react quick enough under pressure, rather than anything to do with the Pokemon's strength. Especially with Lycanroc, Ash just watched in horror as it fell when there might have something he could have to done to save it.

 

[Pulsaro23]

And yet people still don't seem to understand that this is a 22 minute episode, and not a 24/7 series.

They could've shortened the Rowlet stuff if they didn't have enough time. That Seed Bomb-Steel Wing ping pong part added nothing to the story or the battle and managed to break the pacing of the battle, as well as drag out the runtime (while also turning it into a slight comedy). That bit was completely unnecessary and could've been cut out, so don't act like Braviary defeating Lycanroc in the first 3 minutes of the episode was the only option.

Because that's the only way it would've been able to survive the attacks is BY being invincible.

Okay, let me be as clear as possible: nobody who complained about Lycanroc's defeat said that it should've survived those attacks (at least, as far as I'm aware). The problem is that those attacks happened so early in the episode, which led to Lycanroc barely doing anything worthwhile in the match. I know it's easier to fight an opponent made of straws than to tackle the actual argument, but can you stop putting words in people's mouths now?

Or in your opinion do you think Gladion's Lycanroc would've fared better?

In the same circumstances? Idk, maybe not? But if given a better opportunity, I'm sure it could've done a lot better than Ash's Lycanroc did here. And the same could be said about Ash's: if the Sky Drop + Superpower combo wouldn't have happened so soon, Dusky would've gotten the chance to do more before getting KO'd, so people wouldn't have had a problem with its rushed defeat, as it wouldn't have felt rushed. But, as it stands, I guess the writers decided that it would've been more worthwhile to rush thorough the battle and, instead of having Lycanroc put up more of a fight, focus more on Rowlet shenanigans.

Either you accept Braviary being ridiculously overpowered and Lycanroc did its best despite the circumstances or the argument here is Lycanroc is "trash" (or more trash than not trash) and didn't actually deserve to beat Gladion's Lycanroc (which a few people, I might add, already had a problem with it) because it somehow should've been more invincible and survive the attacks and kept battling.

I think I'll take the third option and have Lycanroc use a few more attacks and actually do some damage to Braviary before getting combed and fainting in the first three minutes of its battle with the bird.

I think it's hard for me to rationalize that anyone who legitimately had a problem, don't automatically undervalue Lycanroc because of its performance.

Based on what? 'Cause I can tell you that I still like Dusk Lycanroc, I still think that Ash's Lycanroc is a strong battler and I most definitely still believe that it is Ash's ace in his Alola team. And, again, the way it was defeated, by getting hit by some pretty powerful moves, made sense. And, double again, the problem is that it happened almost as soon as the episode started. An episode that, mind you, is part of a three/four-parter. They could've made time for Lycanroc to shine a little in this battle, instead of having it get KO'd without doing much.

As for the other parts of your post, I think what I've said till now applies to them as well, so, for the sake of not sounding like a broken record, I won't repeat myself. Except for one last time (in this post, at least), to reiterate that, while the way Lycanroc was defeated made sense in-universe, it happened to quickly (which made its battle seem rushed) and it didn't have to happen as soon as the intro ended.

 

[clarkzero]

Finally, a Empoleon appears in the anime for the first time in 9 years...

 

[Knightwolf09]

Finally, a Empoleon appears in the anime for the first time in 9 years...

Still kinda got shortsticked in it's battle like the last time. Only made more into a joke

 

[Beatsy Ray]

Finally, a Empoleon appears in the anime for the first time in 9 years...

That whirlpool honestly made me nostalgic.

 

[Panky..]

That whirlpool honestly made me nostalgic.

All that was missing was a Draco Meteor with the accuracy of a patriot missile.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Why couldn't the entire league been this fast? Naw the Lycanroc mirror lasted 30 minutes in universe

 

[nickdt]

You are all forgeting one thing:

Incineroar is Masked Royals main, while Braviary is Kukui's main, so Braviary should be on a similair power level as Incineroar (Which means it makes sense for Braviary to defeat Ash's second strongest mon, next to Pikachu).

 

[CaptainBuggles]

I think it's hard for me to rationalize that anyone who legitimately had a problem, don't automatically undervalue Lycanroc because of its performance. Because if there wasn't a lesser opinion of Lycanroc, why wouldn't you accept the loss as it is, and realizing Kukui had the upper hand with obviously powerful attacks.

To me, it actually does make complete sense that someone could be upset with this but still like Lycanroc a lot. You shouldn't automatically assume people's thoughts and feelings just because you don't see how there could be an alternative.

It's like this: If you like Lycanroc but dislike this, it comes off more like the writers are disrespecting Lycanroc or not taking its power and skill + the magnitude and gravity of the battle seriously enough. It's not that Lycanroc is a failure, or that Lycanroc should be utterly unstoppable.

Plus, you keep talking up the force of Sky Drop, but that really kind of just comes off as splitting hairs and can't entirely secure the argument. If someone really wanted to, they could hypothetically just argue that a blunt force impact with the ground counts as 'Normal-type' damage, which Lycanroc would actually resist anyway. Plus, we already know that animeverse Pokemon and humans alike actually can take absurd amounts of damage, and the anime is also often inconsistent on both damage and durability. While it does make sense that this attack was probably stronger than a normal Sky Drop, there's nothing to truly prove the damage would be as massive as you say.

My personal headcanon is just that Lycanroc pushed its limits and fought so hard against Gladion that although it's technically healed and rested, it's putting up a tough front and can't push itself as hard as it did before.

So my argument isn't that Lycanroc should've somehow taken more hits either. It's that I don't think you should be making such a big fuss over people "undervaluing" Lycanroc or somehow "misunderstanding" this fight and the nature of the show when that's just an incorrect assumption on your end.

 

[MegaGreninga]

You are all forgeting one thing:

Incineroar is Masked Royals main, while Braviary is Kukui's main, so Braviary should be on a similair power level as Incineroar (Which means it makes sense for Braviary to defeat Ash's second strongest mon, next to Pikachu).

I don’t know about that Braviery gotten stronger for this episode compared before when it battle team rocket mega evolution of agrogon.

It lost with one attack.. while his strongest main Pokémon inceraroar won easily

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Just realised this, but I love how Naganadel’s existence was just revealed and yet the scoreboard had a perfectly clear shot of it and an up close face avatar.

I guess it was in the Aether database.

Didn’t the same happen for Melmetal vs Gladion?

They have to focus on other things, they choose, we can dislike those choices, sure,

The person you responded to literally just expressed this dislike in a single line and you exploded on them with this wall of text...

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

That whirlpool honestly made me nostalgic.

Diamond & Pearl flashbacks intensify

 

[BigDocFan]

A problem I have with Pikachu vs Empoleon is the lack of Electric Type moves being used, anyone remember how easily Pikachu defeated Barry's Empoleon, if not I'm going to fine you lol