Your attack missed gg. You can talk about innumerable and impossible scenarios like garchomp setting up +6 honeclaws in front of something like DT Vaporeon, but at the end of the day, it is a proved fact that dt is broken and one person cribbing does not change it. All your suggestions like using Aura sphere users centralize the metagame.@Ranger Jack Walker: I'm getting tired of repeating myself, too. I have already answered that question more than once. My answer to your question was that an individual's self-respect would decide if they used it. There doesn't need to be an organization to govern what's 'fair' and what isn't over something like Pokemon, for God's sake. Besides, Pokemon each only get 4 moves; DT seems like a waste (to me) on many Pokemon because of this reason alone. And sure, any idiot can spam DT, but if they abuse it for the sake of winning at all costs, then they're pathetic and likely know it themselves. (Well, that's not true; most basement-dwellers like that are so shallow and ignorant that they probably don't even see it - you may just have me there.)
However - DT is in no way unbeatable. One could use Mist, Haze, Toxic, a Red Card, Taunt (especially in conjunction with Prankster), Clear Smog (which never misses), Foresight, Encore, Mind Reader, Lock On, Odor Sleuth, or (once again) a move that never misses. (And before you say, yet again, that they suck, consider how many people use Rapid Spin for it's effect.) You could also employ a Lens item, or the abilities CompoundEyes, No Guard or Unaware, though I suppose you'll argue that they're too remote, or the Pokemon who have them are too weak. (Remember, though, that Smogon has a mighty fear of Bidoofs.) Additionally, you could fight fire with fire and use Psych Up - it doesn't solve your problem, but if they want to be aggravating then they deserve a taste of their own medicine. Lastly, since you ignored me about this last time, there are just as many (if not more) ways to boost accuracy, which functionally counter evasion boosts. Consider this scenario: DT x6 vs. Hone Claws x6. Who do you think is coming out on top of that one?
Using DT uses a turn, during which they're open to attack. A quick sweeper could nail a DT abuser before it has the time to set up, preventing it in the first place. The only time a single use of DT would make any real difference is if you relied on one of those high-power/low-accuracy moves you mentioned. Besides, without luck or chance, the game loses its excitement, doesn't it? If everything becomes based on statistics and probability, we may as well be playing AdvancedAlgebraMon.
Part of the strategy of Pokemon (specifically multiplayer in this instance) is identifying threats and preparing for them, knowing full well there are always going to be more possible threats than any one team can answer. The so-called 'metagame' that Smogon has created kills the need to find counters for stuff, so no counters are found - that doesn't mean they don't exist. Andnd if they're going to ban DT on the grounds of 'cheapness' or 'over-centralizing', they should ban Protect, Toxic (with or without spikes attached), and healing moves. (Hell, why not ban ALL moves that can inflict a status like paralysis as an added effect?)
And for the record, I'm more 'familiar with the depths of human douchebaggery' than just about anyone you'll ever meet. However, even though I'm a hard-core cynic, I try my best not to be; that much negative energy is bad for the soul.
The theory of DT Haxorus is simple. Use a hax with dd, dt, taunt and d-claw. Use dt + taunt against defensive teams and use dd against offensive teams. Even skarmory, "a counter" will fall to hax here. Fast offensive mons will be massacred by dd + dclaw. Don't mindlessly use DT, thats the slogan. Use it at the correct opportunity and you will win.
your sentiments clearly lean toward DT Haxorus being cheap.@ Grass Type Trainer: Isn't that what I said? Someone so obsessed with winning that they spam DT on a Haxorus or whatever - stuff that doesn't remotely need to use DT to stand a chance against its opponent - is cheap. I thought I was clear enough when I said it for everyone to understand...
Evasion was tested in the fr/lg era if i am correct.Sigh. This debate is like arguing religion or politics. People believe what they want to believe and since neither side is willing to give the other a chance, we wind up going around in circles. Ultimately, no one here is "right." The beauty of Pokemon is that it is such a versatile and customizable game that you can build your team however you see fit. The rub is that you may not always find people who see things your way.
I'm going to add my personal thoughts here, take them for what you will-- I personally believe that the metagame would be better served if everything was allowed and tested properly: Evasion, OHKOs, Drizzle+Swift Swim, Excadrill, Thundurus, Garchomp, etc. Similar to the way PBR does its Random Battles.
"But Po, all that stuff has been tested and deemed too overpowering!"
You're partially correct. Evasion has never been properly tested. Not since RBY has it even been allowed in most standard battles, when it was unequivocally broken(one DT made 100% moves go to 50%, and Swift was the only never-miss attack). All those abilities and 'mons that were banned were tested in sterile environments where they were never distinctly challenged. Due to the sheep-like nature of most players, people never even tried to come up with solutions beyond waiting for someone else to come up with a counter or counter-strategy. People cry about weather, but how many of you have ever actually tried to counter it? Much like the "never-miss" attacks, people have this stigma about using a move-slot to activate a weather effect, due to it not doing damage. There is this belief among players that if it doesn't do damage or boost a stat, it is a waste of a moveslot. Speaking from personal experience, I have never had a problem with things like weather abusing, Garchomp/Thundurus/Excadrill, but I can see where someone who ascribes to the Smogon-style of battling would have problems... The way I play is a little bit different, and it has allowed me to remain flexible enough to not have the kinds of horror stories I hear some people tell about those guys.
OHKOs are another aspect of the games I don't understand why its banned. People say its because of the luck factor involved, but you face similar odds dealing with a critical ruining your Calm Mind Suicune setting up, or missing that Focus Blast with your Gengar against that 35% health Tyranitar that is about to Pursuit you for the win. I understand how minimizing luck is a philosophical standard for a competitor, but in a game like Pokemon where everything including damage is random, I don't see how you can complain about luck. You might as well just design your own game sans all the "hax" you loathe so deeply.
That is the end of my personal philosophy on battling. I'm about being flexible and adapting to the situation at hand. However, I understand that my style is not the mainstream way of doing things, and I never try to force my beliefs on others. I think the Smogon model is flawed, and its logic somewhat hypocritical, but I would not say that my way is "better." It is simply different from theirs. My way is probably flawed as well, but it is how I have fun. The problem with trying to standardize a game as random as Pokemon can be, is that you will never truly be rid of all the "hax,"(really hate that word) merely, you create a logical fallacy that can't truly be defended beyond emotional and, ultimately, irrational arguments. The reverse is also true--In that trying to argue for a more "pure" -for lack of a better term- metagame, you fall into the same emotional appeals that make your argument lose its weight.
TL;DR: Everybody is right, and at the same time, everybody is wrong. Just play how you want, but don't ignore the other side-- You might be able to learn something from one another.
Like I said, if we allow DT, we might as well be tossing coins.If everything becomes based on statistics and probability, we may as well be playing AdvancedAlgebraMon.
People. this seems like an argument ending statement here. Again, it all chalks down to opinion. There are people who will act elitist towards you for this, but here's how I look at it: this is one game out of the millions of others. Elitism is everywhere.TL;DR: Everybody is right, and at the same time, everybody is wrong. Just play how you want, but don't ignore the other side-- You might be able to learn something from one another.