Smogon bans and suspect tests discussion

[Amoebo]

sorry guys it damages pokemon thats been there for 2+ years bad pokemon to ubers

 

[Zeb]

Ignoring the shitposting above, there's also suspects going on in RU and NU. RU has Pangoro and Moltres while NU has Mega Steelix and Heliolisk.

I don't play either tier, but I've spoken to an RU player and they seem to think both Pangoro and Moltres should go, which seems to be the majority opinion looking at the posts in their RU section. Pangoro can join Dragalge in climbing from NU -> BL2 in a short time, all thanks to ORAS. As Littlefinger said "the climb is all there is". :]

Dunno much about NU really, but I'm surprised Mega Steelix hasn't risen to RU on its own by now anyway. RU isn't exactly swimming in choice for Megas these days + it's very similar to Mega Aggron, and I could never see Mega Aggron hanging about in NU. A really bulky Steel-type with good offensive potential just doesn't seem like NU material (and hasn't since it was announced, regardless of its mediocre ability). If it's banned, I imagine it'll move into RU eventually now there's only four(iirc) Megas in that tier. The ban seems inevitable looking at opinions on their forum. Same with Heliolisk. Heliolisk is one of my favourite mons, so I'm glad it's finally good somewhere, even if it's NU.

I don't have an opinion on Metagross; I've been having a break and haven't played since January. It was kinda annoying to me back then, dunno if I'd have said it was worth a ban though. But it looks like the vote will be pretty close, so it'll be cool to see how it ends up regardless. Heard Mega Diancie is pretty dominant on the suspect ladder though, so guess we might end up with more bans on the way if Metagross does go... (If Meta does go, I'm guessing the probable Mega Sableye suspect will be pushed back due to the rise of Fairies after losing Metagross?)

 

[Amoebo]

i fail to see how a already tough nut to crack on the physical side gains a respectable sp.def stat and a surprisingly high attack stat can stay in the same tier as its previous state (even if its nu)

 

[Alexey]

I have reqs for the Metagrossite test
What I don't have is any damn idea on whether I want to vote ban or no ban

 

[Zeb]

Results from RU and NU:

Pangoro: Ban: 67, Do Not Ban: 15, Abstain: 2
Moltres: Ban: 55, Do Not Ban: 29

Steelixite: Ban: 82, Do Not Ban: 15, Abstain: 5
Heliolisk: Ban: 88, Do Not Ban: 10, Abstain: 5

Was wanting to get into RU, maybe now is the best time? I last played a short RU stint last spring, but I'm sure a lot has changed since then. :]

 

[Rainami]

I don't care what happens anywhere as long as Mega Gremlin and Mega Princess don't go uber.

Results from RU and NU:

Pangoro: Ban: 67, Do Not Ban: 15, Abstain: 2
Moltres: Ban: 55, Do Not Ban: 29

Steelixite: Ban: 82, Do Not Ban: 15, Abstain: 5
Heliolisk: Ban: 88, Do Not Ban: 10, Abstain: 5

Was wanting to get into RU, maybe now is the best time? I last played a short RU stint last spring, but I'm sure a lot has changed since then. :]

> be zebbo
> like pangoro
> pangoro gets banned from ru
> say that "this is the best time to start playing ru"

what

 

[Zeb]

> be zebbo
> like pangoro
> pangoro gets banned from ru
> say that "this is the best time to start playing ru"

what

Well Dragalge has gone too :< But I'd rather play a balanced tier/meta than one with broken stuff, regardless of whether I like the broken stuff.

Plus RU has had a lot of suspects/bans lately (since ORAS released really); I didn't see the point trying to get into a tier that was going to be constantly changing as it started to balance out. Might as well wait until all the big problems have gone and it starts to settle down.

 

[JustJeff]

And Metagrossite remains OU!
ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 2, Voting | Page 13 | Smogon Forums

I honestly thought it was going to be banned, but it looks like it's staying in the top of the OU tier~

 

[Zeb]

Bet Landorus-I is next.

 

[Zeb]

No Scald Ladder | Smogon Forums

So UU has made a separate UU ladder where Scald isn't allowed. It's not a suspect test nor is Scald banned from UU (the regular ladder exists with it), it seems to be more just to get an idea of what a metagame without Scald would be like, what people's opinions on Scald are and to see where (if) they want to do anything about Scald in the actual UU tier.

It's interesting because Scald is easily one of the best moves in the game and (imo) incredibly overpowered from a mechanical perspective. A base 80 power Water move with 30% chance to burn is crazy. Fire-types are usual switch-ins to moves like Will-o-Wisp to avoid burns, but they can't switch into Scald because Water is super effective against them. At 80 base power it's the same as STAB Crunch, so it's not exactly weak and since Gen V Surf has been dropped for Scald on most Water-types. I do think it's too powerful for its utility, and Game Freak should really consider lowering it to around 50 BP to make up for that and force a power vs effect scenario when it comes to choosing moves.

Still it will be interesting to see the outcome and opinions on whether it's decided to be a better tier with it removed. I personally don't stand either way on banning it, I'll just leave them to do whatever they want, but I do think the move could use some nerfing from a mechanics perspective.


------------


Also Serperior failed to get enough votes to be allowed back in UU (86 ban-30 unban-1 abstain) so Serperior is back to BL. :0 Best starter though <3

 

[Amoebo]

that scald ladder is an optional ban as well as the mega ou tier, pretty much.

with the creation of that tier, all of the hardcore showdown players get to relish generation 5 meta with talonflame and weather having less of an impact.

 

[Zeb]

Announcement - np: ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 3 - Ghosts | Smogon Forums

I'll just leave this here...

 

[DasManiac]

I am of the opinion that it's an early Aprils fools joke. Otherwise there's no explanation. The box legends are unique in that they are not intended for standard competitive play. There's nothing in standard competitive play (that Smogon hasn't banned) that even stands a chance against Origin Forme Giratina. It has to be a joke. Sure Kyurem B was unbanned but that's because Kyurem-B is near useless. It has a monstrous Attack stat but is severely limited by its poor movepool and typing (I have to say that Dragon/Ice was an unexpected and cool typing).

 

[Stardust_Trainer]

Yeah I'm going to jump on and see how he's abusing the OU tier now. If he gets through, he's going to overcentralize the tier since he'll be the new best Defogger, Spinblocker, with mixed attacking potential and an immunity to Spikes, not weak to Stealth Rocks AND isn't crippled by Knock Off. Not to mention his sweeping potential and countless other possibilities.

 

[Zeb]

I don't really understand the logic here personally.

They say that adding this will cover Pokemon like Landorus-I, Keldeo and Metagross and pretty much half the tier on top of that tbh. So instead of the metagame being more centred around a handful of Pokemon, they'd rather centre it around just the one?

And they say the metagame is stale, so they are adding in a Pokemon that will be on 90%+ of teams and probably require about two answers on your team if it's allowed to stay? And that won't be a stale metagame in the slightest?

It's completely backwards logic.

If this turns out to be an early set-up for an April's Fools joke, great, good one, but if not, then I thought the OU council or whatever were smarter than this tbh.

And it isn't like Giratina-O has a bad movepool or bad stats. It's not like it's a completely predictable mon, when it can easily run various sets with completely customisable EV spreads (dat 150 HP with 100/100 defences x__x).

I pretty much don't play anymore, so the outcome of this doesn't affect me at all (and maybe I'm wrong as well). But if the outcome is that it's unbanned, the future looks bad to me. And if, for whatever reason, it manages to get unbanned, I'll give it 2-3 months before people are complaining about it and want it gone again. In my opinion, there's no way that it will create a healthier tier, it'll just turn OU into Giratina-OU See what I did there? That was good!

 

[J Jay]

Hehe, I see what you did there Zeb.

The idea of changing the meta for its own sake was something I felt had become prevalent even as far back as the Greninja test (but I fully agree that it needed to be banned). Megagross sealed the deal for me - it was a close call and again I could understand the central (geddit?) arguments for its ban but there was a lot of reference to just "needing" a change.

However, a box legendary is probably too big a clue to an early April Fools' prank.

 

[Stardust_Trainer]

Yeah so far im around 1900 COIL and the council stated their intent was to get away from a stale and defensive-style meta but so far all I've been seeing is more defensive teams with Gira-O running WoW/Dragon Tail/Defog and a filler move. I myself am using a SubCM set and I've scored two 6-0s with just Aura Sphere and Shadow Ball. There's almost nothing that can effectively counter him. All you can do is whittle him down with hazards and chip damage. I have yet to see anything OHKO him without boosts, even Bisharp fears this thing. You have to exploit his lack of recovery throughout the match and play carefully, then there's also what kind of set he's running that you have to worry about. I don't think it's gonna fly.

 

[Alexey]

I don't think that it's an april fools prank.
I have only played 7 matches on the suspect ladder, and I don't think it's healthy. Too unpredictable and too damn fat with an ability to hit hard even without investment

 

[AnybodyAgrees]

I am completely opposed to letting this thing into OU. While on paper, it seems acceptable, as it counters some potentially broken mons, it's far too centralizing for the tier's own good. This thing completely fucks with momentum versus balance and most of the stuff that can break it can't switch in to it's high-powered STABs. The fact that it could run several different sets with completely different checks just hits it in further.

 

[SharKing]

I don't think that it's an april fools prank.

It's obviously horrible for the OU metagame, and it's being "suspected" this close to April Fool's Day. How is it not a prank?