SwSh So given what other Monster Series Do to Save on Costs - Would Pallette Swaps Be Cool for New Pokemon Going Forward?

[Zeta]

Given that all this crisis is practicality over an expanding roster something occurred to me - is palette swapping the way to go for new content?

Basically, what I'm wondering is how would you, as part of the fandom, react to say . . . half of all new Pokemon going forward being palette swaps/light regional forms ala most other monster series like Digimon and Yokai Watch to save on development costs?

It would basically be a set of regional forms but they couldn't be as out there as Alolan Exeggutor - it would have to have the same model skeleton, and animations but could have minor detail changes in the physical appearance along the lines of Alolan Meowth or Rattatta. But they'd have completely new types, movesets, and possibly names (possibly not listed as Pikachu Water Form but as Pikablu For Instance).

Now obviously GF doesn't have the technical expertise to do this since they can't even make efficient models for blown-up Dynamax Pokemon, but other series do use this to save on space and development costs. I was wondering how you'd think the fandom would react to it? Especially if the "new" Pokemon were a slight step down in originality from some of the more drastically different Alolan Forms.

Let's say, hypothetically generation 9 comes out and it has 60 new Pokemon with new models but then 60 "subspecies" Pokemon that use the same skeleton, poses, and general body shape of old Pokemon. What would the reaction be, overall, you think? Oh, and unlike Alolan Forms these Palette Swaps would be pulled evenly from all the Pokemon generations instead of just one.

As a corolllary, how do you think people would react to getting rid of Shiny Pokemon unique coloration to accomodate this? Shiny Pokemon might have to be changed from alternate coloration to just being what's on the tin - they shine slightly in battle with a glowing aura. How do you think people would react to that, as well?

Personally as long as there's a difference in stats, typing, and movepool I think I'd actually like it since I like the recolors in Digimon and Yokai Watch.

 

[Kallyle]

If palette swaps were just limited to regional variants, then I'd be okay with it. However, there's no way I'd be okay with labeling a palette swap as a brand new species!

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Basically, what I'm wondering is how would you, as part of the fandom, react to say . . . half of all new Pokemon going forward being palette swaps/light regional forms ala most other monster series like Digimon and Yokai Watch to save on development costs?

I think it's okay with YKW, because it's an established part of the series, and they seem to be more like shinies in their own right, considering their similar elements and themes. But Pokemon's gone its entire duration without making new Pokemon that are just recolors, so suddenly bringing them in would feel boring and unnecessary, especially with all the talk about the dex being too big now. There's really no need to pad the dex.

The idea of palette swaps as a minor new form seems fine, though, and I could imagine it being popular even without altering stats.

 

[El_]

If we're being honest this is literally all Alolan Meowth (forget fat faced evo) Sandshrew, & Vulpix are anyways. It's literally just a dark colored Meowth striking a snobby pose, and Vulpix & Sandshrew are just white to fit the Ice typing same with Ninetails. Even Grimer & Muk are just colorful versions of the originals, and don't even get me started on Alolan Diglett...

Tbf on Game Freak, they handled the lore and typings of regional variants with some actual care, and technically from a biological standpoint they are different species from the originals because that is how biodiversity actually takes place. Small subtle changes and pallet swaps are fine so long as its explained via lore and habitat niches; certainly a better gimmick than Rita Repulsing everything to where the game models start clipping out of the screen.

My answer is yes, and I wish it were a direction Game Freak had taken much sooner. It seems deceptively "lazy" on paper, but really it's efficient for this genre. It would free up other much needed assets like animations. Sadly, Game Freak would never see the beauty in simplicity anymore anyways. The fandom's reaction to it would depend on if Game Freak used the extra space and development to actually innovate core mechanics in the games to compensate.

That's the main issue now. Important features have been continually removed from the series with little to show gamers what they are compensating for. In short: if GF did this while still being lazy everywhere else expect a well deserved poor reaction. If GF does this and utilizes whatever system they are on to its full creative potential, then we have something.

 

[The Outrage]

I'd much rather get a limited roster for a generation or two until GF figures this out than settle for palette swaps as new species. I'd like regional variants though.

Except for Voltorb. I'll accept new Pokeball skins for that.

 

[prog rocker]

I'd much rather get a limited roster for a generation or two until GF figures this out than settle for palette swaps as new species. I'd like regional variants though.

Same. I'm not a fan of palette swaps, neither in this game, nor in others. At least with Regional variants we don't have to pretend they are completely different species.

 

[El_]

Forgot Game Freak actually did sorta do this already, and it wasn't well received. Technically Arbok was the first to truly fit with OP's suggestion, and then Vivillion later. I wonder if these (Ele Monkeys & Kamis) would had been better received as their own regional variants.

I do like Deerling's seasonal gimmick which is also a palette swap. Perhaps it just depends on how its handled that decides how the fanbase regards it. Regional variants (which Arbok technically is cosmetically) are the way to go imo.

 

[PinkIceFox]

clears throat

No. NO. NOOOO. NO GOD PLEASE, NO. NO! PLEASE NO. NEVER.

Pallet Swaps are a lazy man's way of using little creativity. Any monster raising game I play gets instant point sliced off the moment I see my first recolor of a monster.

 

[TheElderKing]

I don’t think it’s going to happen, to be honest, at least not in a grand scale.

Also, while my recollection of Digimon isn’t as good as it used to be, the color swaps that I recalled weren’t that widespread:

 

[Boss1708]

The way I imagine it, the franchise should go forward this way...

Per generation:

- 55 brand new Pokémon (50 regular ones, 4 legendaries, 1 mythical)

- 30 Regional Variants (I don't mind them being recolours, with slight alterations, as long as they are not presented to us as new Pokémon, but Regional Variants of old Pokémon). With exciting new typings and abilities.

- maybe 10 new Megas

- to compensate the smaller Pokémon roster, invest more time, effort and creativity in fleshing out the region, the human characters and the plot.

- Add some exciting Battle Facilities for a change. You haven't done that since 2012.

- Do NOT waste your resources and creativity on coming up with new stupid one-time-only battle gimmicks every generation. Ever since the beginning of this practice in XY, your ideas have been going downhill, with Dynamax being the worst.

 

[Silktree]

Not to be nitpicky, but I don't think it's fair to say that half of the designs in Yokai Watch are recolors (it will take me a long time to count them, but it seems more like 30% at the absolute max). The focus in the upcoming entry is Mega-like forms that are actually more creative than the regular evolutions in that series.

Anyway, I really like Alolan Ninetales and Marowak, and they're mostly recolors. It's also really hard for me to pick more than 60 Pokemon in most generations that I'm fond of (not that I'm saying the others should be removed now). For brand new Pokemon, I would rather see animals that haven't been used at all, and likewise for type combinations. Realistically, they aren't going to add more than 40 of those per generation.

60 new species (including 5 legendaries and a mythical)
10-15 cross-generational evolutions
20-25 regional variants

Megas can be reserved for remakes.

 

[Midorikawa]

Yeah I don’t mind some regional variants, but just a bunch of recolors and palette switches seems lazy. I love seeing the new Pokémon they come out with. It’s what make the journey so exciting, not knowing what to expect and having the chance for using something new.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

The Megas and Alolan variants are honestly no different to what Yokai Watch did. People complain about the sheer number of Jibanyans, but to be fair, not all of them are straight-up recolors. Others, like Shogunyan or Chimpnyan, have very different physical traits and elements.

....Which is really no different at all to the presentation of Megas and Alolan variants.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

Given that all this crisis is practicality over an expanding roster something occurred to me - is palette swapping the way to go for new content?

Basically, what I'm wondering is how would you, as part of the fandom, react to say . . . half of all new Pokemon going forward being palette swaps/light regional forms ala most other monster series like Digimon and Yokai Watch to save on development costs?

It would basically be a set of regional forms but they couldn't be as out there as Alolan Exeggutor - it would have to have the same model skeleton, and animations but could have minor detail changes in the physical appearance along the lines of Alolan Meowth or Rattatta. But they'd have completely new types, movesets, and possibly names (possibly not listed as Pikachu Water Form but as Pikablu For Instance).

Now obviously GF doesn't have the technical expertise to do this since they can't even make efficient models for blown-up Dynamax Pokemon, but other series do use this to save on space and development costs. I was wondering how you'd think the fandom would react to it? Especially if the "new" Pokemon were a slight step down in originality from some of the more drastically different Alolan Forms.

Let's say, hypothetically generation 9 comes out and it has 60 new Pokemon with new models but then 60 "subspecies" Pokemon that use the same skeleton, poses, and general body shape of old Pokemon. What would the reaction be, overall, you think? Oh, and unlike Alolan Forms these Palette Swaps would be pulled evenly from all the Pokemon generations instead of just one.

As a corolllary, how do you think people would react to getting rid of Shiny Pokemon unique coloration to accomodate this? Shiny Pokemon might have to be changed from alternate coloration to just being what's on the tin - they shine slightly in battle with a glowing aura. How do you think people would react to that, as well?

Personally as long as there's a difference in stats, typing, and movepool I think I'd actually like it since I like the recolors in Digimon and Yokai Watch.

Like I've said here before, there should be two forms of variant: simple color swaps for some Pokémon that don't need new types and would fit the newer regions but were created in the past, like Bellossom having new colors in Alola and others with new types and designs. The anime had this with the Valencia Island Pkmn.
Also, something that I forgot to mention before and that again shows how GF is always attaching some features to certain games without creating staples is Vivillon!! Why has this to be the only Pkmn to have actual real world differences!? We could have a hand full of these that would boost trade between players!

 

[Nicolas721]

Passing recolors of old Pokemon as new Pokemon would be a terrible idea. Regional dexes are already 15%-20% new Pokemon and we don't need that number to go lower with such a cheap tactic.

But on the topic of Regional forms that doesn't change a Pokemon's silhouette much but still have a theme that makes sense like A-Vulpix, Marowak and Muk then I'm on board. Types are a central part of Pokémon so it would be fine to experiment more with the concept.

 

[Almonds]

Add some exciting Battle Facilities for a change. You haven't done that since 2012.
Do NOT waste your resources and creativity on coming up with new stupid one-time-only battle gimmicks every generation. Ever since the beginning of this practice in XY, your ideas have been going downhill, with Dynamax being the worst.

Ya know, I don't know why they're not going back to the Battle Frontier/Facility concept when it had been a lot of people's favorites. The Battle Frontier is a fan-favorite concept. The PWT was highly praised. But none of that ever came back when they can be included in almost all regions just for the sake of it. Just tone down the AI or include a casual mode and allow rentals like they did with QR codes if they're so worried about the difficulty.

 

[Zeta]

Ya know, I don't know why they're not going back to the Battle Frontier/Facility concept when it had been a lot of people's favorites. The Battle Frontier is a fan-favorite concept. The PWT was highly praised. But none of that ever came back when they can be included in almost all regions just for the sake of it. Just tone down the AI or include a casual mode and allow rentals like they did with QR codes if they're so worried about the difficulty.

They might be doing a Pokemon WT with the Masters App, but from what I've read of the press releases that app is more like a fantasy football League where Pokemon battles perse don't happen, you just make a "sports" team of famous NPCs from the games an anime and hope they win while standing next to one of their static signature Pokemon.

 

[Shrapnel Stars]

Recolors would have to be implemented with care. In World of Final Fantasy (take a shot), they are done rather well. They have different moves, typings, and stats, and count as form changes for some evolutionary lines. There is often a strategic choice to be made in which color you use, instead of one being directly better than another. For instance, the pirate dressed Moogle can boost Physical moves, the yellow pom Moogle is good at both healing and aoe, while the red pom Moogle is good at healing and boosting Special moves. Something like that. If you only have one, you can unlock the ability to transform it back and forth into any of the other forms outside of battle. You are also free to get one of each.

In Pokemon, recolors have been primarily cosmetic, and then inconsistent in availability outside of their home game. If GF could be counted on to both strategically differentiate and support those recolors for the future, then it would be alright with me. I don't forsee them doing that, however. The Sawsbuck and Furfrou forms don't do anything, but I love them, and GF couldn't even be bothered to put them in any more games after they were introduced. Often with GF, the question isn't whether or not something is viable. It's whether or not the dev team can be bothered to support it after one game.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

Ya know, I don't know why they're not going back to the Battle Frontier/Facility concept when it had been a lot of people's favorites. The Battle Frontier is a fan-favorite concept. The PWT was highly praised. But none of that ever came back when they can be included in almost all regions just for the sake of it. Just tone down the AI or include a casual mode and allow rentals like they did with QR codes if they're so worried about the difficulty.

I was very dissapointed in SM, when it wasn't possible to have rematches and I loved the VS Seeker, so don't be surprised on GF not realising how fans like to rebattle.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

Often with GF, the question isn't whether or not something is viable. It's whether or not the dev team can be bothered to support it after one game.

And therein lies the problem.

I've been saying for years now that GF always drops features from one generation to the next. People were hoping that the concept of Mega Pokemon would be expanded on in Sun/Moon, but I knew that it was just going to be another gimmicky feature that would lose relevance by the next generation. And then when SM did came out, my suspicions were correct as although Mega Pokemon were still present, they were no more forms and they were delegated to the post-end game. Now there is the possibility that Mega Pokemon won't even appear in Sword/Shield at all. Game Freak has done this with every new generation since the beginning and I'm glad people are finally starting to realize that.

Game Freak has...

• Introduced time mechanics in GSC and made extensive use of it with different Pokemon appearing at different times and visual changes. But then practically dropped most of these mechanics in RSE, only keeping some time for the sake of growing berries and Umbreon and Espeon. This feature would properly return in DPP and introduced more time-based evolutions, but the feature has constantly fluctuated with each major generation. To the point where time is no more than an aesthetic addition and a reminder of how many hours you've been playing that day.
• Introduced the growing of berries for two generations....only for that to get locked into the Dream World, which is now no longer available. Thankfully they returned to in-game berry gardens with XY, but this was a really bad restriction to impose on BW and its sequels.
• Introduced contests as an alternative to battling. And while it lasted for two generations, it too was also dropped in favor of other gimmicky features (Pokeathlon, Pokestar Studios) that also later got dropped. And now because of that, the requirements for Feebas's evolution had to change.
• Introduced the almighty Battle Frontier in Emerald, which has seen some equivalents in later games. But this has also constantly fluctuated between passable and downright lazy and uninspired (Battle Maison...)
• Introduced seasons in BW and then promptly dropped them by the next generation as though they were nothing. And now because of that, the aforementioned Sawsbuck is only available in Spring form unless you transfer and breed for the rest. And while it looks like seasons will be back in some capacity in SwSh, it remains to be seen how much they'll do with that.
• Introduced the superior Player Search System in XY and ORAS, only to have it replaced by the awful Festival Plaza.
• I've already mentioned the treatment of Mega Forms above. Alola forms also get a special mention here.
• And introduced Z-Moves and then also have them dropped. And if what we're lead to believe is right, both Megas and Z-Moves have been merged to create Dynamax. And I will guarantee that feature will also be dropped or downsized (lol) by the next generation.

Plus many more.

Now honestly, the drop of features isn't always bad. Some just aren't that great (cough Festival Plaza cough). But it also shows that GF really aren't that reliable with their designing. It makes the new features more like gimmicks than actual innovation. And now we can see that even additions that shake up the competitive scene are not even safe.

Going back to the topic at hand, I agree with you that recolors would just be yet another gimmick and doesn't help the actual problem at hand. I don't want band-aid gimmicks. I want actual lasting innovation that pushes the series forward.