So is Journeys the Worst Series Ever?

[Hidden Mew]

I think it's the other way around. AG is forgotten because it was immediately followed by DP, which to be frank was a superior version of the same story. It somehow became the most inoffensive season of the show nobody really talks about anymore.

As much as I prefer DP, it is a shame that AG doesn't really get much attention. Granted, I think stuff like May's Contests and the Battle Frontier haven't really aged well, but it was still quite enjoyable. Ash's battles were pretty solid and the Hoenn League was pretty good. Starting off with a brand new team and new characters really made it stood out as like Ash really was starting all over again. At this point, that's pretty much standard, so there's no real surprise factor in doing that, but it's hard to describe how refreshing it was when they did it for the first time in AG.

I still think it might have been a stronger series if they had been able to extend Hoenn for four years instead of three. It's weird to say that I think the series would have been better without the Battle Frontier since I still say that it is Ash's best accomplishment to date, but they could have used that time to expand on Hoenn, maybe give May some more Pokemon, give her a couple of more defeats and pace out some of the Gym battles a bit better. The Battle Frontier arc is also just way too rushed. They kind of had to do that when they had a short amount of time to cover the Battle Frontier Challenge, the Kanto Contests and the Kanto Grand Festival. The arc is one of the reasons why I think the Pokemon anime works better when it has a slower pace instead of cramming in so much at once.

Yeah, I don't see too many complaints about it or a centralizing complaint. However, I think Max was annoying and Ash was pretty selfish/jerkish regarding his Gym Battles; do you know how many episodes started off with the gang wanting to do something and him basically saying "No! My Gym Battle first! Deal with it!"

People definitely didn't like Max, but since he didn't get that much attention and was mainly on the sidelines, it was pretty easy to ignore him. I remember Ash definitely arguing with his friends over what they wanted to do instead of going straight to the Gym at least a couple of times. He would even argue with May about going to her Contest, despite how there would be more of a time limit for her to get to a Contest while he could get a badge anytime. I always noticed that they didn't really do this in either DP or XY. Whenever they had to go somewhere for Dawn's Contests or Serena's Showcase, he wouldn't really argue that they have to go to his Gym battle first.

 

[Alola]

I remember Ash definitely arguing with his friends over what they wanted to do instead of going straight to the Gym at least a couple of times. He would even argue with May about going to her Contest, despite how there would be more of a time limit for her to get to a Contest while he could get a badge anytime. I always noticed that they didn't really do this in either DP or XY. Whenever they had to go somewhere for Dawn's Contests or Serena's Showcase, he wouldn't really argue that they have to go to his Gym battle first.

OMG yes, this so much. I recently rewatched a number of Hoenn episodes and this bugged me because Contests have limited (apparently, yearly), scheduled times while Gyms are static and can be challenged whenever. It really made Ash come across as ignorant and inconsiderate. This is probably why they dropped that type of interaction with DP, since the writers realized the logic behind it; and if Journeys Ash is any indicator, he would be much more patient and understanding now than before.

 

[Soniman]

I feel like it shouldn't matter "how much" or "how little" Ash was inconstant in terms of characterization because either way it's still inconsistent. I swear to god, when I saw Ash in XY have to be reminded by Serena that he needed to focus on the league instead of wasting his time fighting this one-off trainer, I couldn't take anyone who said XY Ash was mature seriously after that. This is near the end of the series, the culmination of all his growth, and his gym battle with Ramos literally emphasized how he needed to focus on what was important but of course that was thrown out the window for...what, exactly? I didn't really care that Ash was later forced into a battle with that guy, nor did I care that he agreed with Serena he needed to focus-because by this point he shouldn't have needed to been reminded in the first place. That was kind of the entire point of the Ramos gym battle and the Snowbelle arc, which that one scene kind of ruined entirely.

Not only do I find how you let a completely inconsequential (so inconsequential I don't even remember it) moment ruin an entire arc for you somewhat baffling but that wasn't the point of the arc at all in fact that kinda runs counter to the entire arc. Ash was so laser focused on getting stronger and victory after he got unlocked the Ash Greninja abilities that he lost sight of why he originally became a trainer, living in the present and just being there with the Pokémon/Friends he loves. Sure Ash still wanted to win at the League but he never expressed any significant urgency to do so, heck Ramos' lesson was about PATIENCE and learning to stop and chill out, be more observant, see what you'd otherwise miss out on and you could learn something. Ash is never someone to refuse a battle no matter the context anyway, he always sees it as a chance to learn and grow stronger

 

[Hidden Mew]

OMG yes, this so much. I recently rewatched a number of Hoenn episodes and this bugged me because Contests have limited (apparently, yearly), scheduled times while Gyms are static and can be challenged whenever. It really made Ash come across as ignorant and inconsiderate. This is probably why they dropped that type of interaction with DP, since the writers realized the logic behind it; and if Journeys Ash is any indicator, he would be much more patient and understanding now than before.

Yeah, it's rather jarring to see how Ash reacts to May's Contests after watching DP and XY. When Serena's Master Class Showcase was far away from Snowbell City, Ash immediately said that they would go to her Showcase without a second thought. He never had a problem with waiting longer for his Gym battles in favor of Dawn's Contests either. Maybe it was to show how impatient and hot headed Ash could be, especially when that same kind of attitude could affect his battles like with his first match against Brawly, and he still had moments of supporting May in spite of this behavior, but it really did make him look more rude and inconsiderate of one of his friends. It probably didn't help that this kind of behavior happened throughout at least the Hoenn portion of AG, so I don't think that this kind of behavior was properly addressed.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Yeah, I don't see too many complaints about it or a centralizing complaint. However, I think Max was annoying and Ash was pretty selfish/jerkish regarding his Gym Battles; do you know how many episodes started off with the gang wanting to do something and him basically saying "No! My Gym Battle first! Deal with it!"

The Advanced Saga is a bit of an oddball in the Pokemon anime: it's extremely difficult to find anyone who dislikes it, but at the same time it hardly ever shows up as anyone's favorite either, so I guess that'd make Advanced the most "average" saga by default in a sense. About the only complaints it gets are Max's character being seen as obnoxious by many, Ash not having a recurring rival, and the way the Team Magma and Aqua subplot was handled, but clearly none of these negatives seem to be dealbreakers for AG in the grand scheme of things.

Anyway, back on topic, I'm gonna echo the notion that we shouldn't judge Journeys as "the worst series" until it actually ends. It does have its problems, rather major ones at that, but I don't think that's enough to say it's the worst series just yet.

 

[Unireon]

While I could understand why some may think that it is early to judge it.

No series before managed to make me drop.

I would suggest letting Journeys reach episode 100 and then judge again.

 

[Enzo]

Yeah, I don't see too many complaints about it or a centralizing complaint. However, I think Max was annoying and Ash was pretty selfish/jerkish regarding his Gym Battles; do you know how many episodes started off with the gang wanting to do something and him basically saying "No! My Gym Battle first! Deal with it!"

Yeah, Max was very annoying to me too lol. But as @Hidden Mew stated, he wasn't really as plot-relevant, so he could mostly be ignored, which is also ironic considering one of the biggest pieces of criticisms regarding him, since he did nothing and had virtually no weight on the narrative for 99,9% (prob exagerating here I know lol) of the time, is precisely since he wasn't as much plot-relevant and most people found/find him pointless.

And there's also the fact that AG was a very long time ago and to this day is still (sadly, may I add) ignored by most people in the fandom, so I guess most people don't complain about him anymore because they pretty much forgot about him. And to finish off, there's also the matter that even more divisive characters that are more recent showed up after him, most notably I would argue to be Iris and Goh, which people talk about a lot more than Max. So yet another thing to make people forget his existence.

While I could understand why some may think that it is early to judge it.

No series before managed to make me drop.

I would suggest letting Journeys reach episose 100 and then judge again.

I do agree with that. I know my footprint in this forum is about how I grab nearly every opportunity available to smack JN out and about, by yeah, l for one think we should give it a little more room. Don't have any expectations left, so it's just whatever. Let's wait and see.

 

[Kurolegacy]

I feel like it shouldn't matter "how much" or "how little" Ash was inconstant in terms of characterization because either way it's still inconsistent. I swear to god, when I saw Ash in XY have to be reminded by Serena that he needed to focus on the league instead of wasting his time fighting this one-off trainer, I couldn't take anyone who said XY Ash was mature seriously after that. This is near the end of the series, the culmination of all his growth, and his gym battle with Ramos literally emphasized how he needed to focus on what was important but of course that was thrown out the window for...what, exactly? I didn't really care that Ash was later forced into a battle with that guy, nor did I care that he agreed with Serena he needed to focus-because by this point he shouldn't have needed to been reminded in the first place. That was kind of the entire point of the Ramos gym battle and the Snowbelle arc, which that one scene kind of ruined entirely.

So, yeah, even if it is just small moments, it's still inconsistent. Journeys makes it particular egregious because he's not focused on as much, nor is his character given proper depth anymore, but it has happened in past series before. If people are allowed to complain about something as small as Goh catching one single pokemon for twenty seconds in an episode dedicated to the PWC, then I don't see why people can't do some cherry-picking for something as important as consistency in characterization.

Honestly I find that there’s a fine line between small blips in a character and just flat out soft rebooting them. In the cases of the above examples, we essentially saw what multiple people writing a character can result in which is fairly common in characters that exist under multiple different writers. They mostly remain consistent but you’ll see blips. BW on the other hand, essentially soft rebooted Ash to the point where we went from Ash taking on Legendary Pokémon in the Sinnoh League only a few episodes prior to losing to a fresh trainer unable to adapt to an unexpected situation, something he’s skilled at doing, making rookie mistakes with trying to capture a Pokémon and numerous glaring points of sheer incompetence that don’t even read like we’re looking at the same Ash.

And really complaints of one character taking up time in another’s episode especially when the series suffers from focus balance and blips of character inconsistencies are really just comparing apples and oranges, especially when one is a symptom of a larger problem within the current series while the other is essentially blink and you’ll miss it that doesn’t detract from the overall narrative. But that’s just how I see it.

 

[Unireon]

And that kinda makes more sense as well. Even if he is more mature he still has his same values held towards battling. Growing up means changing, but that's likely one part of Ash that never ever will change. (also, your usertitle, is it from a song? sounds like it)

Satoshi is always eager to battle, that's part of his characterization.

It comes from the opening of the anime I chose to take Anipoke's slot starting today.

https://twitter.com/animesongbot_1/status/1209457971500945408

Step

Provided to YouTube by The Orchard EnterprisesStep · aï½¥chi-aï½¥chiMashin Hero Wataru Music Collectionâ 1988 SUNRISE MusicReleased on: 2020-05-22Auto-generated ...

www.youtube.com

Spoiler: Lyrics

kimi no namida, saigo ni suru wake wa niji no hashi ga, mou sugu kakaru kara kirameku Rainbow kokoro no oku no kagi o akereba, kagayaku no sa	The reason that you must save your tears for the end is that a rainbow bridge will appear very soon. That sparkling rainbow, once you have unlocked your heart, will radiate brilliantly.
boku no kimochi, tsutaerarenai mama konna hazujyanakatta Prologue yureteru Lonely Heart setsunai hitomi dakedo mamoruyo kyou kara wa	I'm still unable to convey my feelings; the prologue is not supposed to be like this. Your lonely heart is swaying, and your eyes look so wretched, but from today on, I'll protect you.
ai o motomete, kizutsuku toki wa tamerai mo, koukai mo, nemurenai hodo yume o motomete, kujiketa toki wa atarashii Step de, sunao ni narebaii	When we hurt others in the process of searching for love, we'll have so much hesitation and regret that we won't be able to sleep. When we are crushed in the process of pursuing our dream, we'll just need to take a new step and be our honest selves.
yasashisugiru, kokoro no uragawa ni ushirometasa, kanjiteita Every Day yumemiru Fantasy Sutekina egao boku no kokoro wa, kimi no mono	On the reverse side of your heart almost too tender, I sensed your guilty conscience every day. When you dream of a fantasy, your smile looks so lovely that my heart has become yours.
kuyashii keredo, ai no chikara wa shiawase mo tanoshisa mo hakondekuru yo yume o motomete kujketa toki wa atarashii Step de sunao ni narebaii	We may feel disappointed right now, but the power of love will bring both happiness and joy. When we are crushed in the process of pursuing our dream, we'll just need to take a new step and be our honest selves.
ai o motomete, kizutsuku toki wa tamerai mo, koukai mo, nemurenai hodo yume o motomete, kujiketa toki wa atarashii Step de, sunao ni narebaii	When we hurt others in the process of searching for love, we'll have so much hesitation and regret that we won't be able to sleep. When we are crushed in the process of pursuing our dream, we'll just need to take a new step and be our honest selves.

 

[Unireon]

Now that we are on the topic....

Previous series had better songs as endings.

Either they were catchy or had beautiful lyrics.

The Shit-ritori and Typings-for-Dummies are neither.

 

[Kurolegacy]

1000% agree with this.
my favorite ending (and in my top 3 favorite songs) is Kaze no Message, it's beautiful.
the music for journeys being bad also kills Journeys for me. The Journey Starts today has no "Pokemon" vibe to it, it just sounds like a shitty pop song). And "1, 2, 3" gives me too much of a poppy vibe. But even XY had nice-sounding pop, not stuff that sounds like (to me, at least) cringe.
It's probably an unpopular opinion but the music of Journeys seems soulless to me. It's insanely bad.

Honestly, I’ve gotten tired of 1,2,3. Not only is the current version completely outdated considering it still features Sobble of all things, but I feel like after almost 90 episodes, it’s run its course. I wish that they’d give us a new opening since things are supposed to be shifting the bro high gear with the Hyper Class and Project Mew.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Considering that Together was aired for 94 Episode, I'm fine with 1,2,3, but an update with new visuals would be nice.

 

[Unireon]

Considering that Together was aired for 94 Episode, I'm fine with 1,2,3, but an update with new visuals would be nice.

That may be true, but at least Together was a better song than what we have now.

And they updated its visuals almost whenever there was a change in the characters' teams.

 

[JinksChow]

Considering that Together was aired for 94 Episode, I'm fine with 1,2,3, but an update with new visuals would be nice.

Actually, the original TV broadcast of DP001-DP003 did not use Together as the opening theme, so both versions of Together was only used for 92 episodes.

Whereas for 1,2,3; if we count the weeks for which Pokemon JN was rerunning episodes due to State of Emergency, the song has actually already been used for 83+6 TV broadcast episodes. In addition, as far as we are aware, JN084-JN086 will also be using 1,2,3 as the opening theme. This means that, if JN087 is also using 1,2,3 as the opening theme, the song will have overtaken Together as the most used song in TV broadcast of Pokemon anime.

 

[ii kanji]

I love Together - now in hindsight it represents a really important era in the franchise for me - but BOY was I sick to the hen’s teeth of that song by the time High Touch came around. For any song to take over it’s title of ‘longest running anime OP’ is a very dubious honour indeed…

 

[Unireon]

The anime openings that have that honour may be Doraemon no Uta and Yuuki 100%, the latter from Nintama Rantarou.

Both only got remixes during their animes run: the whole 1979 Doraemon anime and some especial episodes from the remake; from Nintama's beginning back in 1993 to these days as it is still ongoing.

The most reused Pokemon song is Mezase Pokemon Master, though.

 

[Galactic_V]

I love Together - now in hindsight it represents a really important era in the franchise for me - but BOY was I sick to the hen’s teeth of that song by the time High Touch came around. For any song to take over it’s title of ‘longest running anime OP’ is a very dubious honour indeed…

I really liked Together too, and kinda wish for it to be replaced soon (I mean, it did have two remixes, one of them better than the actual song imo (IIRC it was the Winter version)), but it was sorta disappointing its replacement since High Touch was one of the weakest OPs ever back in the day for me. Didn't like the animation, the song or the tunes.

Anyway, I do agree with you people who are saying 1,2,3 is a very weak OP too, it's one of the reasons I dropped PM2019.

 

[JinksChow]

The anime openings that have that honour may be Doraemon no Uta and Yuuki 100%, the latter from Nintama Rantarou.

Both only got remixes during their animes run: the whole 1979 Doraemon anime and some especial episodes from the remake; from Nintama's beginning back in 1993 to these days as it is still ongoing.

The most reused Pokemon song is Mezase Pokemon Master, though.

I was thinking of most reused song over a continuous period of time, but you are correct in that Mezase Pokemon Master is the most reused song in the Pokemon anime.

If we count the original run (including Electric Soldier Porygon, Holiday Hi-Jynx, and Snow Way Out!), the Whiteberry Version, and the 20th Anniversary Version, Mezase Pokemon Master was used in 143 episodes.

(That was actually way more than I expected. As per Bulbapedia, this means Mezase Pokemon Master was used in more episodes than there were mainline episodes for BW and XY)

Well, at least this means there's little chance of 1,2,3 being used in more episodes than Mezase Pokemon Master, unless the anime staff actually have the gall to leave 1,2,3 as the opening theme for the entirety of JN's run. And at that point, I'm not even going to be mad, just impressed.

I really liked Together too, and kinda wish for it to be replaced soon (I mean, it did have two remixes, one of them better than the actual song imo (IIRC it was the Winter version)), but it was sorta disappointing its replacement since High Touch was one of the weakest OPs ever back in the day for me. Didn't like the animation, the song or the tunes.

Anyway, I do agree with you people who are saying 1,2,3 is a very weak OP too, it's one of the reasons I dropped PM2019.

I think you're mixing up Together and By Your Side. There were 2 versions of Together used on TV (Original and 2008 remix), while there were 3 versions of By Your Side (Original, Pop-up, and Winter).

 

[Soniman]

I really like 123 and all it's variations do at this point I think it's only fair if they make a Ash/Goh version to end it with.

 

[Unireon]

That would be the worst thing to ever happen. The final nail in the coffin.

I'd rather have the current 123 until the end of Journeys, that I have no intention on watching, than having another duet in Anipoke.