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So is Journeys the Worst Series Ever?

Is JN the Worst

  • Yes

    Votes: 42 36.8%
  • No

    Votes: 43 37.7%
  • To early to tell

    Votes: 29 25.4%

  • Total voters
    114
Time to use the target audience to make a point.

Children are not that into Pokemon sites and are prone to assume.

And the anime is also a mean to promote the games.
I don't know about that given how widespread the Internet has become. I'm not saying that every kid watching the anime would be checking Pokemon sites every day exactly, but I don't know how many of them would be getting their information on the newest games from the anime. I think it's more likely that kids would check out YouTube videos to see if Mega Evolution is confirmed than assume that it already is confirmed due to Mega Lucario being featured in the anime. While saying that they're prone to assume isn't the worst assumption to make, it still comes off as belittling kids or talking down to them. Kids are smarter than we tend to give them credit for.

The anime is meant to promote the games, but the anime also has always taken liberties. It's arguably more apparent with Journeys since they've showcased plenty of Pokemon that aren't available in the current games, but even before that, they've shown Pokemon that aren't native to specific regions, they add in towns for the characters to go do all the time and they've made changes when adapting the storylines from the games. Complaining about Mega Lucario like this also feels extremely moot when they've already shown off Z-Moves and I highly doubt that anyone would assume those would be in BD/SP. They clearly aren't focused on just promoting the newest features in the current games, so I don't really see the problem with featuring Mega Lucario in that regard.
 
I've worked as a part-time teacher and I assure you, kids today are very internet-savvy. I've seen kids as young as six reference internet memes for instance, and that's not something they could have learned without using a computer or smartphone.

Even if this wasn't the case, kids aren't dumb, and I'm pretty sure that they'd be able to easily realize that the reason older mechanics such as Megas and Z-Moves are being used in Journeys is because of the series' very premise of being an all-regions tour, so of course every mechanic that has ever existed is going to appear.
 
It rubs shoulders with BW and the deformed Z offspring of XY as one of my least favourites (anyone who knows me well enough will know my dislike of Ash-Greninja), but... least favourite overall? Somehow I wouldn't say that yet. We're not even a hundred episodes in yet, Journeys still has more time to disappoint me further.
 
Journeys is such a weird series. In 2 years we haven’t even had 90 episodes yet, Ash is in the Hyper class, has a full team and we’ve been through the entire Sword and Shield endgame yet somehow it still feels like nothing has happened. How have the writers managed that?
2 reasons: Covid. That just... explains it for itself. And...

It's because of the episodic format. Simple as that. Things begin, happen, and end all in a singular episode and it's either never mentioned again or it's only brought back rarely. Like, there was a whole arc (a mini one at that) about Farfetch'd learning to trust Ash and it evolving, but then when it did, it completely poofed afterwards and only became somewhat relevant 24 eps later, and is not even the main focus. So why expend time at all on this Pokémon if it's just.. not impactful in the narrative?

I've mentioned it before, but there's so much that JN did that proves itself pointless day after day: The Kangaskhan that raised Pikachu was never brought up again. Horace, that kid Goh supossedly had a great friendship with that took over an entire ep that where Ash was booted from? Nada. Never any mention of him again. The Darkest Day arc that mutilated the entire SWSH story and made it all happen in 4 eps? No one ever mentioned it after it ended. Past companions coming back? It's only for one ep and they add nothing but cheap nostalgia to the story and are never brought up again. Morpeko, the only Pokémon captured by the TRio is yet to appear again and it's been 16 eps and counting.

(Btw, remember the whole hype about Infernape coming back that made people talk about it super exicted for weeks only to be for one ep where it did nothing? Yeah. That's just a taste test of the entire JN experience.)

Pokémon exists to either be captured by Goh, evolve or battle: they are not allowed to be characters, because their only purpose is to showcase that the species exists and then move on to the next, which explains the treatment the maincast mons suffer in this series.

My point? Because nearly nothing in this series has any significant impact in the narrative. It's just a bunch of one-shot eps under the same series name.
 
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Honestly I think it’s AG’s placement in the series that makes it more fondly remembered than it would have been; since it was the first series with all the changes and Ash having more of a unique team and coming after Johto. If the same Hoenn saga came out after DP or even BW for example but was written the same way, people wouldn’t have cared about it much.

I think it's the other way around. AG is forgotten because it was immediately followed by DP, which to be frank was a superior version of the same story. It somehow became the most inoffensive season of the show nobody really talks about anymore.

I couldn't agree more. I've said more than once that Johto and AG, especially the latter, were pivotal stones in setting the franchise's pace for another decade, that is, until the advent of Sun and Moon. What I mean by this is that OS, AG, DP, BW, and any other seasons, are products of their time. AG's placement in the series is exactly what makes the season what it is. If the Hoenn saga came out after DP or BW, it wouldn't be the same saga. And neither DP and BW would be the same saga, because Hoenn didn't precede them.

On the other hand, I agree that DP cut out AG's shines for people who haven't been following the franchise since forever. But that's because DP draws from every base and experience built during AG to retell similar story in a better way.

In addition to the patent similarity to the series who suceeded its, Hoenn faces other issues that detract people interest in the season. Lack of consistency, due to uncertainty about the development of the series itself and its characters, and ragged plots are not uncommon, especially at the beginning of the season. Hoenn is a pretty old series too, with the episodes in low definition, DP already has HD episodes, and an animation quality that is, sometimes, fishy.

But It is worth remembering that AG faced the great challenge of replacing the original trio and reshaping the series that was the biggest hit of the late 90s, this with a reduced budget. Pokémon's animation, if I'm not mistaken, became 100% digital around Hoenn era, which at the time, in terms of image quality, was not a step forward, but a cost-cutting measure.

However, the evolution that occurred in the series in that years is crystal clear, so that the Battle of the Frontier, in my understanding, is a great saga, superior to AG and very close to what we had in DP.

And, finally, I don' know, if the actual AG came after BW, it would certainly seem quite a weird series. Yet, I believe, it would be a more well-liked series than BW. After all, one was a reshape of the franchise that, in a way, worked, while the other...
 
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The Darkest Day arc that mutilated the entire SWSH story and made it all happen in 4 eps?
In gonna be honest the game story was also not good and barely anything interesting happened within it complete with an idiotic villian motivation so I didn't mind the anime just doing an abridged version because well...so little actually happened until the climax you could get away with doing that.

Famously though the anime took a similarly shallow villian plot with Team Flare and crafted a ongoing subplot ending with an arc a lot would say is the series best so the staff doesn't get a free pass on not trying to make it work. But they've had a history with being scattershot when it comes to adapting villian arcs and trying to give Darkest Day more depth with long form story telling goes against JN's MO of not focusing on anything for to long because something something kids would get bored
 
I still like the storyline from Sword/Shield, It's not one of the best storylines from the games, especially with how Chairman Rose's motivation wasn't really expanded upon, but I think it still generally worked, in large part due to both Hop and Sonia's roles. Sonia becoming more interested in researching Galar Legends over the course of the game made her becoming the new Professor so satisfying. While the Darkest Day wasn't the only important moment of Hop's character arc, it was still satisfying to see him become one of the new heroes of Galar after how much he had struggled and connecting with one of the Legendary Pokemon did contribute to his conclusion. If you aren't invested in these characters and their changes over the course of the storyline, then it would probably make it harder to enjoy the storyline.

That being said, I think four episodes to cover the storyline could have potentially worked if they had more foundation to it beforehand. Ash and Goh only met Sonia once before the Darkest Day, so that would immediately weaken her role and they barely established the Galar Legend too. Seeing her become a Professor would not be nearly as satisfying as it was in the games. I think Chairman Rose didn't even appear before the Darkest Day arc either. If they had gone to Galar even just a couple of more time to provide a bit more setup for the Darkest Day arc, I think covering it in four episodes could have worked.
 
In gonna be honest the game story was also not good and barely anything interesting happened within it complete with an idiotic villian motivation so I didn't mind the anime just doing an abridged version because well...so little actually happened until the climax you could get away with doing that.

Famously though the anime took a similarly shallow villian plot with Team Flare and crafted a ongoing subplot ending with an arc a lot would say is the series best so the staff doesn't get a free pass on not trying to make it work. But they've had a history with being scattershot when it comes to adapting villian arcs and trying to give Darkest Day more depth with long form story telling goes against JN's MO of not focusing on anything for to long because something something kids would get bored
I do agree with what you said. The story of SWSH wasn't like, bad to me, it just wasn't good.

But it's just that's... not the point I was trying to make tho. Its cuz they butchered whatever story the game and after it was done, there wasn't a single mention of it ever again. It's just yet another example of JN doing stuff ust for the f of it and never using it again, so the whole thing is just the loosely sticthed-together patchwork of one-shot stories that are barely held together by the fact that is all under the same series. Why exactly even bother to do someting that has absolute no impact on the characters or the story? It's also so funny there was a slight tease of Rose and Oleana not being defeated and potential comeback, and it's been 40 eps and almost 1 year later (literally, JN045 aired in november 13 of 2020) and it hasn't been adressed to this day.
 
A Well-Written/Developed/Handled Journeys is something so oxymoronic.

It would ever remain as a mere chimera or for What if conjectures.

They basically butchered the SwSh story so badly that now there is no sensible way to introduce Hop or Biito.
 
Journeys isn't the worst, but it definitely jerks my emotions around more than any other series in the Pokemon anime. Journeys' premise had the potential to be easily the greatest series in Pokemon history. You could see glimmers of potential in the first few episodes and even now, but it's almost always done half-heartedly. The Ho-oh episode was when I started to see the cracks in the series while the "Goodbye Raboot" episode made me taper my expectations of the series.
 
The Sword/Shield story from the games was always shit and the anime managed to make it work. Can’t see how anyone could care about that although Rose should have been introduced earlier.
Journeys is such a weird series. In 2 years we haven’t even had 90 episodes yet, Ash is in the Hyper class, has a full team and we’ve been through the entire Sword and Shield endgame yet somehow it still feels like nothing has happened. How have the writers managed that?
That’s weird because I don’t feel that way. We’ve gotten more PWC battles than gym battles (obviously there’s only 8 gyms) and they’ve done a decent job developing the side cast. It does feel like the lack of appearances of Ash’s Pokémon make you feel they’re not there most of the time, so I suppose that should be the reason. Between that and the recurring cameos and some of the game-centric stories and Project Mew stuff, there’s been plenty of content.
 
The Sword/Shield story from the games was always shit and the anime managed to make it work. Can’t see how anyone could care about that although Rose should have been introduced earlier.

That’s weird because I don’t feel that way. We’ve gotten more PWC battles than gym battles (obviously there’s only 8 gyms) and they’ve done a decent job developing the side cast. It does feel like the lack of appearances of Ash’s Pokémon make you feel they’re not there most of the time, so I suppose that should be the reason. Between that and the recurring cameos and some of the game-centric stories and Project Mew stuff, there’s been plenty of content.
I can’t really say most of the PWC battles can quite be compared to gym battles in amount due to the fact that the majority of them were just these mini 1 v 1 battles that only lasted a minute or so. Only major battles ever actually had a feeling of similarity to gyms. At that point, we may as well compare one-off trainer battles Ash would have in previous series to gyms. Plus it’s further hurt by just how much they flat out skipped things in what is Ash’s goal for this series and have rushed things along.

And even when it comes to the side cast, their developments are either outright rushed or inconsistent especially with how the writers seem to try and turn the likes of Go into a Swiss army character to fit whatever narrative they put him in in a particular episodes.

Can’t even really say the cameos have been done too well either especially by comparison to previous series cameoes. For the most part, they’ll simply rush through a cameo without giving it time to breath despite them being such a fan service. Meanwhile the past series would either give the cameo a couple episodes or a mini arc.

The whole thing feels like, while these things are here, it’s only given a 1-2 dimensional feel rather than a 3 dimensional picture, lacking noticeably in depth.
 
I can’t really say most of the PWC battles can quite be compared to gym battles in amount due to the fact that the majority of them were just these mini 1 v 1 battles that only lasted a minute or so. Only major battles ever actually had a feeling of similarity to gyms. At that point, we may as well compare one-off trainer battles Ash would have in previous series to gyms. Plus it’s further hurt by just how much they flat out skipped things in what is Ash’s goal for this series and have rushed things along.

We’ve had 7 big PWC battles so far that don’t include any of the 1 on 1’s. Since we’re bound to get at least 2-3 more Hyper class battles it will surpass the 8 Gym limit we had in previous series.
Can’t even really say the cameos have been done too well either especially by comparison to previous series cameoes. For the most part, they’ll simply rush through a cameo without giving it time to breath despite them being such a fan service. Meanwhile the past series would either give the cameo a couple episodes or a mini arc.
For the most part characters are returning more than once as seen with Korrina, Dawn, Cynthia, etc. Their first cameos focus on one particular aspect and then they’re brought back for something else. It’s why I now think Iris and the SM cast will appear once more as well. Also without the nostalgia I’d wager to say they’re better than Misty’s old AG cameos or Dawn’s BW cameo which despite being 8 episodes long she only got good focus in 3 of those episodes.

The whole thing feels like, while these things are here, it’s only given a 1-2 dimensional feel rather than a 3 dimensional picture, lacking noticeably in depth.
The rest of the stuff I agree with. If Ash’s Pokémon appeared more in fillers or had more onscreen training their lack of appearances this series wouldn’t be so bad. It’s one of the big things the writers not only stopped the ball on but oddly don’t see a reason to change. Weird but it is what it is.
 
We’ve had 7 big PWC battles so far that don’t include any of the 1 on 1’s. Since we’re bound to get at least 2-3 more Hyper class battles it will surpass the 8 Gym limit we had in previous series.
Ash has had only 5 major opponents since the start of the PWC started; Visquez, Korrina, Iris, Volkner and Bea. If you’re counting Ash battling Bea multiple times as placing it at close to the number of battles, at that point you’re gonna have to count all of the rematches that Ash has had in any given regions since the Bea battles were rematches rather than being markers for sending him further into the PWC. It’s only after his third battle that he advances.
For the most part characters are returning more than once as seen with Korrina, Dawn, Cynthia, etc. Their first cameos focus on one particular aspect and then they’re brought back for something else. It’s why I now think Iris and the SM cast will appear once more as well. Also without the nostalgia I’d wager to say they’re better than Misty’s old AG cameos or Dawn’s BW cameo which despite being 8 episodes long she only got good focus in 3 of those episodes.
Out of those, only Korrina and Dawn had really anything that resembled the return of past companions especially since she took an active role in her first 2 returns both having her rematch with Ash and then helping him achieve Mega Evolution. She was even given a bonus return in the Bea rematch as she had a connection to that plot point.

Dawn got to have a 2 parter where she interacts with Koharu and helped protect Lunala and is getting a bonus return in the Winter Special.

Cynthia though, it was honestly random that she was in the Unown episode and, fan service of her being there aside, could have been removed from it and nothing would have really changed. It only seems in the Winter special that she’ll get a proper return in which it also makes sense that she’d be there.

You then have the cameo of Ash’s past Pokémon which also never amounted to anything. The writers hyped up people for Ash meeting his Oakes Pokémon only for the majority to only be seen in one scene and even Infernape to barely get to do much despite the hype. Even his Alola team only got a single scene of hugging Ash before vanishing into the ether despite them going to the Pokémon School, a place that had basically been a home away from home in Sun and Moon.

And on the subject of Alola, there’s really no guarantee that we will see them in any greater scope within Journeys especially when the writers went out of their way to avoid any of them in the second trip to Alola. Really the only one with a high chance of returning at this point is Lillie because her plot of looking for her father still needs to be resolved and the writers went out of their way bringing it up in Journeys.

And I definitely wouldn’t chalk Misty’s cameos or Dawn’s as just nostalgia considering that Misty received probably the most returns of any past companion with her both showing her improvement as a trainer this giving payoff to the special episodes about her as well as getting a few episodes to travel with the group and interact with May and Max. And even if she only was the focus with 3 episodes in her return, Dawn holds the record for longest return of any past companion, even forming quite the friendship with Iris and taking part in the biggest tournament that we had in BW that wasn’t the league. Compare the type of breathing room these cameos got and Journeys doesn’t even begin to compare especially with their obsession with being episodic.
 
Cynthia is likely going to be a recurring character till the end of the arc similar to Gary, and Korrina and Dawn have been involved in recurring arcs. The SM cast will probably get at least one follow up episode whenever Lillie gets showcased to return home. And while Iris could still technically return; the rest of the returning characters like Volkner, Drake, Chuck, etc. don’t really need more than one episode. We also have Leon, Raihan and Opal in returning roles (before anyone mentions it I do think Opal and Koharu will be connected like Bede is to her in the games) and we have Lance who Ash will eventually interact with at some point.

Previous cameos even if they were 2 partners were one and done. Dawn’s BW cameo was considered a disappointment for years even by most Dawn fans themselves because other than her interacting with Iris she was treated as an afterthought in her own cameo arc. Getting to stick around longer barely negates that. Misty’s old cameos were only 2 parters, and while they were fine for what they were, as soon as she left it felt like she was gone for good again (and at the time we had no idea she would never show up again for a decade). May fared slightly better but again she was mostly written as a one-shot rival to Dawn for that arc although the writers did her well.

Lastly the lab episodes weren’t really much more than to quickly remind us Ash had old Pokémon, if they are ever revisited for an arc we’ll spend more time with them, I never thought the previews which literally showed the scene for 5 seconds was hyping it up any more than that.
 
Cynthia is likely going to be a recurring character till the end of the arc similar to Gary, and Korrina and Dawn have been involved in recurring arcs. The SM cast will probably get at least one follow up episode whenever Lillie gets showcased to return home. And while Iris could still technically return; the rest of the returning characters like Volkner, Drake, Chuck, etc. don’t really need more than one episode. We also have Leon, Raihan and Opal in returning roles (before anyone mentions it I do think Opal and Koharu will be connected like Bede is to her in the games) and we have Lance who Ash will eventually interact with at some point.

Previous cameos even if they were 2 partners were one and done. Dawn’s BW cameo was considered a disappointment for years even by most Dawn fans themselves because other than her interacting with Iris she was treated as an afterthought in her own cameo arc. Getting to stick around longer barely negates that. Misty’s old cameos were only 2 parters, and while they were fine for what they were, as soon as she left it felt like she was gone for good again (and at the time we had no idea she would never show up again for a decade). May fared slightly better but again she was mostly written as a one-shot rival to Dawn for that arc although the writers did her well.

Lastly the lab episodes weren’t really much more than to quickly remind us Ash had old Pokémon, if they are ever revisited for an arc we’ll spend more time with them, I never thought the previews which literally showed the scene for 5 seconds was hyping it up any more than that.
See, the problem here is a lot of what you’re saying is based entirely on speculation as opposed to actual evidence in the series of upcoming events or what has happened. As far as we know, the only confirmed returns that we are due for are Cynthia in the Winter arc and in the Masters 8 tournament, Lance in Masters 8 and Dawn in the aforementioned Winter arc. If anything, Journeys has shown to temper expectations because otherwise you’re just gonna walk away disappointed.

Also, I really wouldn’t class the likes of Leon, Raihan and Opal being recurring characters as the same thing as returning characters as, they are new characters and act as representation for Galar in a series that’s honestly starved for it. Them being recurring characters is no different than the likes of Cynthia in DP.
 
I'll be honest here. As a series, it's been rough. At times it's been around the bottom, near the likes of OS/BW writing wise. I've been pretty generous towards the series because of it being so different premise-wise (all 8 regions instead of one, pokemon go promotion, etc), the pandemic, random timeslot/director changes, etc.. Now obviously I don't work for TPC (or do I?) but from my limited understanding, I can imagine that things have been messy at the back-end. Oftentimes behind bad shows are just bad productions. Like how BW couldn't do the team-plasma arc they had planned. I think this can at least partly contribute to the pacing/writing issues (like rushed super class). Even the animation seems to have taken a hit, because I swear it used to be great (like in episode 2). But I digress.

But I really think that director change helped. I've noticed since episode 65, they're really working on the big issues. Like for example
  • PWC is being treated properly: no more offscreen battles, battles are now proper 3v3, Ash is having to use old or new mechanics against his opponents, even fighting more familiar faces (or new galar characters)
  • Goh finally has some direction with his goal: project mew gives him something to work towards, some rivals/oppositions (Tsurugi and Gary aren't fans of him), a way to actually correlate his captures with getting closer to Mew and a believable way to encounter legendaries (I doubt he'll be forced to 1v1 them now, since they showed Asahi and Tsurugi fighting Regirock in that preview)
  • Chloe has her mini arc of meeting new eeveelutions and is appears way more often. It's not much but better than what she was doing previously (almost nothing)
  • Returning characters: So many more within these last 20 episodes; Iris, Gary, Dawn, Cynthia, Volkner, Korrina, Brock/Paul/Tracey cameos and having them actually intertwine with Ash's/Goh's goal and develop his pokemon. Not to mention Ash's reserves. Also more Galar characters (Opal, Raihan, Leon) seen outside of battle. For reference, up until 65 we only had Lance, Korrina, Chuck, Surge (flashback) Alola gang and Wikstrom I think (with smaller roles and only 1 ep)
  • Having TR catch Morpeko and bond with it, rather than that weird, borderline abusive relationship they have with it. Also I swear the gatcha doesn't show up that often anymore, which allows filler episodes to have a more satisfying conclusion
  • Region hopping: Count is kanto (6), Johto (1), Sinnoh (5), Unova (3), Kalos (2), Alola (1), Galar (4), granted this is likely Sinnoh promotion kicking in but I'd like to see the count from here
  • No more awkward 2-in-1 episodes
  • More arcs and 2 parters (hell Ash basically had a 3 parter just then)
  • Acknowledging Ash's champion status
  • No more random baiting/clickbait eps; like Pikachu 'evolving', Dawn/Brock/Ho-Oh 'returns', reserves but its Mimey, Pikachu being jealous, Zapdos/Suicine scenarios, random stand-ins for game characters (like Vesiquez for surge), Grookey joining TR, stuff like that really.

There are still glaring flaws, such as handling Ash's team (although episode 85 helped a bit), Drizzile's rushed evolution amongst other things. If it doesn't work for you, or the series is beyond repair, I get that. We are over halfway through after all. But I really think that they're at least, writing the series the way it should be, if that makes sense? Like actually taking advantage of the premise and rolling with it. Much better than where it was a year ago. This is basically why I reserve most of my judgements until I've seen more. Of course the above stuff could just be coincidence as well, it's just what I've noticed over this time though.
 
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Yeah I thought the first year or Journies was much weaker for the reasons mentioned above but the second year has been a huge upshot in quality. I mean there’s still the flaws of how Ash’s Pokémon are being handled and I guess that’s never going to get better at this point, but it is what it is.

The first year really was just a bunch of random filler-ish episodes for Go to meet or capture old Pokémon, and at the beginning Ash was just having 1 on 1’s against regular trainers. There was barely any continuity with old seasons as we didn’t get much (besides Lance) till the SM episode or Korrina’s first episode. Now we’re getting an almost consistent return of old characters and some involved in multiple arcs like Gary, Korrina and Dawn especially, not to mention Cynthia’s involvement.

Even looking over at all the episode titles since the beginning of this year even the filler count has been reduced (the last fillers were the blue Pokemaniac episode and the ep Go captures Falinks) whereas we’re getting continued focus on Ash, Koharu or important Project Mew eps for Go.

If only they had Ash’s team appear in fillers or divided battle screentime up better, I wouldn’t have much problems with the current direction. Glad that first director stepped down or whatever happened, and I hope Tomioka writes most of the big battles going forward like he’s done with Iris, Volkner and Bea.
 
I admit that I've all but dropped Journeys at this point and haven't watched it in a long time, but from what I've read they don't use Marina Aicholtz' catch bonus screams anymore, so that's another glaring flaw they've fixed if true.
 
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