So is Journeys the Worst Series Ever?

[Blob]

My main issue now is that we have the BW problem of a Pokémon evolving, only to lose the next battle they're in like 30 episodes later. Considering how FEW times the majority of Ash's Pokemon have shown up, you can really tell that the writers just don't care.

Farfetch'd only got wins so it could evolve and once it evolved, it either doesn't show up or loses in important battles. Sirfetch'd is basically the new Unfezant. The people in charge are so transparent about their lack of care, they'd rather give Pikachu a win over the duck that was ditched as soon as it evolved.

I also hate the trope of "Unpopular/newly evolved Pokémon is weaker than their unevolved form". At least make the evolutions look STRONGER like in the games, instead of weaker. Torterra and Noivern had that problem, we don't need ANOTHER Pokémon with it too...

 

[Sheep]

It's not perfect, but I don't think I'd label it (or any of the other series, really) 'the worst series ever.' I'd absolutely love to see more on certain fronts - as with many, my most-desired change is more screentime for the Pokémon. I feel like they're hardly present and could really use extra development, on top of bonding with each other more. Shame we don't have more of this because Ash has one of the best teams he has ever had, and some of Go's are also pretty darn cool and/or adorable I love you Raichu!!.

Negatives aside, there are also a lot of upsides to the series for me that I didn't get to this extent in previous sagas and am very happy to have here. Seeing some of my favorites making a return and characters across generations interacting with each other in interesting ways (Korrina and Bea is one of the cutest character relationships I've seen) are the big ones. I've made a lot of happy faces during character interactions across this series and those small memories tend to stick out positively to me and make me think better of the series as a whole. I also love the soft slice-of-life Chloe episodes we've gotten so far, as well as her whole character as a whole. Not to mention the supporting cast at Cerise's laboratory both being lovable. Oh, and having a bit more focus on life beyond things related to Pokémon, like programmers, mechanics, and university students is another plus too. I feel like I can connect with Journeys more when the focus isn't always on the Pokémon, but on the humans and their own lives as well.

I suppose I'm more of a casual enjoyer because I'm not nearly as bothered by the flaws Journeys has presented so far. I'm enjoying its positives while continuing to hope the negatives are improved, but am not focused on them to the point where I'd consider this a disaster. Certain flaws have been worked on and @Ryker101's list is a good one that puts the gradual improvement into perspective

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

It's my personal least favorite Saga of the Series so far, though it's purely subjective what's the best & worst of course.

What's really frustrating is I think JN had the potential to be one of the best sagas, but instead, it has a very disjointed feeling of just going all over the place. Now I do appreciate that like BW & SM, JN is willing to TRY new things, but just like BW it falls in the trap of having horrible execution of its ideas. For example, an episode involving a Satoshi (Ash)/Shigeru (Gary) meeting should be great, but instead feels just like "there" instead, and forgettable when it should be anything but that altogether (same with Paul/Shinji). And Team Rocket lack almost any screen time whatsoever in JN, say what you will but SM at least tried to make TR have some appearances in comparison w/comedy- they're more forgettable here than in any Arc: yes, even in BW at least for the mood/tone shift at the outset they stand out in some way. Ash isn't at his worst, imo, but he's also not at his best either. It's started to pick up a little with the Masters 8 stuff, but it still feels a bit...rushed, in some ways.

For all the hate he gets, Goh is actually probably the most interesting person in the main cast IMO, but the issue is nonetheless he interacts with legendaries far too easily for someone just getting going and doesn't really have to work nearly as much as Ash did to get such "plot-mon" face to faces here-- and how did he get an Eternatus that's sealed away later, REALLY, and a Suicine that recurs?

 

[Hidden Mew]

For all the hate he gets, Goh is actually probably the most interesting person in the main cast IMO, but the issue is nonetheless he interacts with legendaries far too easily for someone just getting going and doesn't really have to work nearly as much as Ash did to get such "plot-mon" face to faces here-- and how did he get an Eternatus that's sealed away later, REALLY?

I wouldn't really consider Goh someone who is just getting going. He isn't a super experienced trainer, but I don't think he would be considered a rookie or super inexperienced at this point either. As far as I know, he's only caught three Legendary Pokemon and Eternatus was a team effort between Ash and Goh too. The issue that he didn't have to work nearly as much as someone like Ash is more understandable, but Goh getting Legendary Pokemon doesn't really bother me when the ones he has caught are basically on the lower end of the Legendary Totem pole and capturing Eternatus was necessary to resolve the Darkest Day arc. It wouldn't have mattered if Ash or Goh caught it since it would have ended up locked away forever regardless.

Now I've only seen up to the current Netflix dub releases, but I still don't think that Journeys is the worst based on that. I do have my fair share of issues with it and it can be quite frustrating. I can definitely understand why people would hate it because of how much potential it had and how people were so excited for a world tour series when Journeys was first announced. I hate the PWC with a passion, Ash's Journeys team lacks substance, Galar getting the short end of the stick is a pain in the neck, the poor treatment of the Galar starters has just been baffling to me, the lack of a proper female lead has always bothered me and I absolutely loathe that Dawn has become so stagnant during her off-screen adventures.

Despite all of that, most episodes are pretty fun and enjoyable. I like the friendship between Ash and Goh. Goh himself is honestly a big highlight of the series since I think he's likable and I love his bond with Cinderace, even if it has been more in the background after evolving. Goh reconnecting with Raboot and his rooftop scene with Drizzle have been some of the best moments in Journeys for me. The former cemented my love for Goh and Raboot, which is a big reason why I think it was a mistake to not focus more on their bond after it evolved, and the latter still hits me hard every time because of how painfully relatable that flashback was. While I do wish that Chloe got more screentime and they didn't limit her focus episodes to just meeting Eevee evolutions, most of her episodes are still pretty good too. She is a fun, likable and interesting female character who should have been promoted to the main cast once she got her Eevee and became a trainer. As much as I hate the PWC, there still have been some good battles, particularly against Korrina, Bea and Volkner.

I'd say that Journeys is more frustrating than flat out bad. As frustrating as the series can be, I still dislike BW far more, if only because there are no characters in Journeys nearly as bad or unlikable as Iris or Bianca. The fact that I can still find the series enjoyable in spite of the problems I have with it also gives it an edge in my book at least.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

I wouldn't really consider Goh someone who is just getting going. He isn't a super experienced trainer, but I don't think he would be considered a rookie or super inexperienced at this point either. As far as I know, he's only caught three Legendary Pokemon and Eternatus was a team effort between Ash and Goh too. The issue that he didn't have to work nearly as much as someone like Ash is more understandable, but Goh getting Legendary Pokemon doesn't really bother me when the ones he has caught are basically on the lower end of the Legendary Totem pole and capturing Eternatus was necessary to resolve the Darkest Day arc. It wouldn't have mattered if Ash or Goh caught it since it would have ended up locked away forever regardless.

Now I've only seen up to the current Netflix dub releases, but I still don't think that Journeys is the worst based on that. I do have my fair share of issues with it and it can be quite frustrating. I can definitely understand why people would hate it because of how much potential it had and how people were so excited for a world tour series when Journeys was first announced. I hate the PWC with a passion, Ash's Journeys team lacks substance, Galar getting the short end of the stick is a pain in the neck, the poor treatment of the Galar starters has just been baffling to me, the lack of a proper female lead has always bothered me and I absolutely loathe that Dawn has become so stagnant during her off-screen adventures.

Despite all of that, most episodes are pretty fun and enjoyable. I like the friendship between Ash and Goh. Goh himself is honestly a big highlight of the series since I think he's likable and I love his bond with Cinderace, even if it has been more in the background after evolving. Goh reconnecting with Raboot and his rooftop scene with Drizzle have been some of the best moments in Journeys for me. The former cemented my love for Goh and Raboot, which is a big reason why I think it was a mistake to not focus more on their bond after it evolved, and the latter still hits me hard every time because of how painfully relatable that flashback was. While I do wish that Chloe got more screentime and they didn't limit her focus episodes to just meeting Eevee evolutions, most of her episodes are still pretty good too. She is a fun, likable and interesting female character who should have been promoted to the main cast once she got her Eevee and became a trainer. As much as I hate the PWC, there still have been some good battles, particularly against Korrina, Bea and Volkner.

I'd say that Journeys is more frustrating than flat out bad. As frustrating as the series can be, I still dislike BW far more, if only because there are no characters in Journeys nearly as bad or unlikable as Iris or Bianca. The fact that I can still find the series enjoyable in spite of the problems I have with it also gives it an edge in my book at least.

Fair enough. I'd say "frustating" is the word for JN to me too, and that's true, I think it's a Series that has potential that wasn't explored too well. It is picking up a bit, I do think it'll end up going the way of Johto by the end in regards to finishing better than it began at least.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Journeys is a series that wasn't afraid to try new things, but I think many of their ideas were poorly executed (The world tour, PWC, and Chloe's arc.) or simply did not work (Goh's goal.) It also feels as if it had a ton of wasted potential and missed opportunities.

 

[Gengarzilla]

Worst or not, I think there's one thing I could personally say about Journeys without any doubt: I've never before had any Pokémon main anime series go so far out of its way to alienate me like this one has. It's like the ridiculous mess of XY&Z but as an actual full series rather than just a disgusting puss-filled boil on the face of the otherwise ok XY. Even BW in its worst moments never irked me like Journeys has.

...I've said this before, haven't I? Or at least something approximately along that line anyway. Oh boy.

Normally I'd say the SV series has a lot of work to do if it wants to win me back, but at this point I'm thinking it's about time I pull my plug on this long-running anime at last, finally accept that it could no longer be the thing for me, let it just run out the rest of its days separately from mine, and actually make a god damn effort to begin burying all the baggage it brings. Because I can't be mired in it forever. I need to drop all that depressive negative junk and move on. For real. I'm feeling way too self-conscious of how often I've gotten up on my soapbox about how much I dislike recent anime events. Doesn't matter how much you might agree with someone, eventually wouldn't you get tired of that person if they just repeating the same old some and dance every single time?

Now that I think about it... Yep. I see. Looks like I've been clinging to a rotting corpse on the belief that it might someday maybe possibly perhaps hopefully come back to life. Time to get that body bag/shovel combo ready because this epiphany is super effective and I am getting outta here to save me as well as this segment of the forums from myself. No more.

 

[UxieLover1994]

Baiting, retcons, rushed arcs, pointless arcs, character derailment, ignoring basic rules from both the mainstream games and GO, Grookey being a blatant creator's pet, two clip shows within a fortnight, second series in a row to not have a main/supporting character's Eevee evolve, little character development, most of Goh's team being unused or being demoted (even Cinderace has rarely appeared since Goh joined Project Mew), and a lot of wasted potential.

This is just the most common criticisms that Journeys endured in its history, and many episodes have their controversial moments (eg: Goh's capture of Shedinja). However, I still think it is too early to say whether or not Journeys is "so okay, it's average" or an absolute trainwreck of a series, with the anticipated battle being Ash and Leon being the maker or breaker. Also, no matter how it ends, Journeys will go down in history as the "COVID season", as this ongoing pandemic has some fault for the mess we've endured, and might impact the SV series as well.

 

[Kurolegacy]

I’d say that this Youtuber summed things up pretty nicely:

 

[Sai]

. For example, an episode involving a Satoshi (Ash)/Shigeru (Gary) meeting should be great, but instead feels just like "there" instead, and forgettable when it should be anything but that altogether (same with Paul/Shinji).

Like, Paul's return in JN was the best handling of his character and episode I could of wanted. Gary's role in the Project Mew is the best role he's had since Kanto, and they blow away Gary's DP cameos out of the water (in DP, Gary got less than 5 minutes of screentime in 2 out of the 3 episodes he was in, and his last appearance was just to lose quickly to Saturn. Even Gary giving Ash a Razor Fang felt meh because he was barely in the episode).

I really don't see how anyone can see those returns were "just there" when Paul actually got a tremendous amount of development (and a great battle), and Gary is handled the best he's ever been. An underwhelming return would be of course Alan, who just came back to lose quickly and not have anything to do with Ash. Alan is the only character I feel the writers probably should of not brought back at all, or at least prior to the Masters 8.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Like, Paul's return in JN was the best handling of his character and episode I could of wanted. Gary's role in the Project Mew is the best role he's had since Kanto, and they blow away Gary's DP cameos out of the water (in DP, Gary got less than 5 minutes of screentime in 2 out of the 3 episodes he was in, and his last appearance was just to lose quickly to Saturn. Even Gary giving Ash a Razor Fang felt meh because he was barely in the episode).

I really don't see how anyone can see those returns were "just there" when Paul actually got a tremendous amount of development (and a great battle), and Gary is handled the best he's ever been. An underwhelming return would be of course Alan, who just came back to lose quickly and not have anything to do with Ash. Alan is the only character I feel the writers probably should of not brought back at all, or at least prior to the Masters 8.

Each to their own, I suppose, I do see your point on Gary with the Razor Fang tbf- I just think with such massive characters involved, should've been more excitement per se. It was nice to see Paul and Gary again, at least.

True, Alain was handled the worst, either him or Lance in the Masters 8 IMO.

 

[Unireon]

However, I still think it is too early to say whether or not Journeys is "so okay, it's average" or an absolute trainwreck of a series, with the anticipated battle being Ash and Leon being the maker or breaker.

Both outcomes of that battle will be terrible, there is no otherwise.
Dande winning, most probably in a curb-stomp, would mean more Lizardon-shilling.
But if Satoshi somehow wins, then it will be another case of Plot-Armor and DeM.

I still think that Satoshi shouldn't have reached the Master Class, it is unbelievable with this team and such records and performances.
However this is Journeys, where most plots and events are contrived and the pacing lacks any structure or sense.

 

[PokeMasterLA]

I've been wanting to express my opinion on this thread for a good while now, since I feel like this is an interesting topic. I think I'm going to wait a little longer until at least after the Master's 8 tournament (and the outcome of it) before I give my opinion.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Both outcomes of that battle will be terrible, there is no otherwise.
Dande winning, most probably in a curb-stomp, would mean more Lizardon-shilling.
But if Satoshi somehow wins, then it will be another case of Plot-Armor and DeM.

I still think that Satoshi shouldn't have reached the Master Class, it is unbelievable with this team and such records and performances.
However this is Journeys, where most plots and events are contrived and the pacing lacks any structure or sense.

If Leon wins it will be close a la Kalos League

 

[Sai]

For Leon, it really seems only his Gmax Charizard is really powerful. Alan took out his Rillaboom without too much trouble. It does seem for the Champions only their aces are really strong whereas the rest of their pokemon are still strong but not that different than most characters Pokemon.

Each to their own, I suppose, I do see your point on Gary with the Razor Fang tbf- I just think with such massive characters involved, should've been more excitement per se. It was nice to see Paul and Gary again, at least.

True, Alain was handled the worst, either him or Lance in the Masters 8 IMO.

Lance was handled well, they did with him about what you would expect. He got two battles in the series. Had Diantha lost, people would just be saying Diantha came back for one battle to lose instead.

I wish Alan showed up right after the Greninja episode in Kalos. Ash could have just battled him there as a training match in 1 on 1 (like he did with Paul later), etc. Alan had no reason to be in the Masters 8 and they should of just left Flint there or whoever to see Leon beat someone quickly. Alan really is the only return I felt was truly wasted, not because he lost, but his whole role and interactions with Ash were non-existent.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Lance was handled well, they did with him about what you would expect. He got two battles in the series. Had Diantha lost, people would just be saying Diantha came back for one battle to lose instead.

I wish Alan showed up right after the Greninja episode in Kalos. Ash could have just battled him there as a training match in 1 on 1 (like he did with Paul later), etc. Alan had no reason to be in the Masters 8 and they should of just left Flint there or whoever to see Leon beat someone quickly. Alan really is the only return I felt was truly wasted, not because he lost, but his whole role and interactions with Ash were non-existent.

Agree to disagree on Lance, I just feel personally like his character deserved better than to just get creamed by Diantha like that but probably because he's one of my favorite characters in this franchise (Dragonite is his real powerhouse though, Red Gyarados is what he's infamous for but I found it interesting it never got the hype- probably because latter is a Shiny). I think Lance was handled better in earlier JN eps (shocking I come to its defense here, but his battle with Leon was really good surprisingly, to me), even in OS (he was interesting with the G men stuff) and the AG two parter (he's the best thing about that otherwise controversial set of eps imo) than this- he just felt so forgettable here in Masters Eight, probably the one person save Alain I preferred his handling prior in all other appearances tbh or cameos.

I do agree Alain got handled the worst, though, I don't disagree with you there: to have beaten Ash in the finals in the Kalos League and then just...adios, we don't need you here, and nonexistent interactions on top of that was just...oof, JN, oof.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I’d say that this Youtuber summed things up pretty nicely:

Hit the nail on the head.
Then again this whole anime is full of missed potential

 

[Sai]

Lance was leading the battle against Diantha 2 to 1, I wouldn't say he got creamed at all. His Gmax Dragonite was also a powerhouse, and his Gyarados got affected by stat changing moves. This is also the first series Lance is portrayed as a proper champion, as back in his Johto/AG appearances he was just an undercover G-man involved in villain team plots, but was never portrayed like a champion like he is now. (and people dislike his AG role because he stole Steven's role at the time).

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Lance was leading the battle against Diantha 2 to 1, I wouldn't say he got creamed at all. His Gmax Dragonite was also a powerhouse, and his Gyarados got affected by stat changing moves. This is also the first series Lance is portrayed as a proper champion, as back in his Johto/AG appearances he was just an undercover G-man involved in villain team plots, but was never portrayed like a champion like he is now. (and people dislike his AG role because he stole Steven's role at the time).

Gmax Dragonite is a powerhouse, I agree there, per se I was referring to how he's infamous in the fandom for his Shiny Gyarados if that makes sense. Fair, though I think what I liked about him more earlier was he was unique in a way.

Since Lance was kinda there for continuity's sake at the time, made him interesting despite Steven's limelight being taken away then: I think I liked the undercover G-man involved in debunking TR schemes idea most, though I prefer his battle as a Champion vs Leon more than the one with Diantha if that makes sense.

 

[FelipePR]

I think Max was annoying and Ash was pretty selfish/jerkish regarding his Gym Battles; do you know how many episodes started off with the gang wanting to do something and him basically saying "No! My Gym Battle first! Deal with it!"

These days ago I came across a video representing exactly that.

Spoiler: Pokemon Advanced Battle: Ash "Scares" Max