So is Journeys the Worst Series Ever?

[Hidden Mew]

Arven is too hot-headed for Ash to befriend. Penny is a no-good girl who would do anything to stab Ash in the back.

Considering how Ash has had a bit of a temper, at least in some series, and he typically tries to be nice to most people he meets, I don't think that Arven would be too hot-headed for him to befriend. The moment Ash would learn about Arven's motivation, they would definitely bond. Ash would move mountains to help Pikachu or any of his Pokemon, so meeting someone who desperately wants to save his precious partner doesn't sound like someone Ash wouldn't connect with. I don't understand the notion of Penny being a terrible person who would stab Ash in the back either.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Arven is too hot-headed for Ash to befriend. Penny is a no-good girl who would do anything to stab Ash in the back.

Well, this is an extremely uncharitable view of these characters.

Arven isn't hot-headed, he's just under an incredible amount of stress and having an incredibly hard time in the Scarlet and Violet story on account of, you know, his parents abandoning him (with one of them getting killed) and his best friend almost dying and all? How on earth would something like that not make anybody lash out in some way? Especially a kid like Arven.

And Penny is the exact opposite of someone who "would do anything to stab Ash in the back"; she's manipulative and underhanded, yes, but her storyline with Team Star demonstrates that loyalty is quite possibly her greatest virtue, as she was willing to take the full brunt of the punishment her friends would have faced. She also has a weird honor code as she even came clean about all the hacking she did no strings attached when she could have easily kept that to herself and nobody would be the wiser. These are not the traits of someone who would backstab Ash just because as you claim.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

To be honest Ash is better off on his own. I feel he would focus more by himself. Plus he should not go to school.

 

[FelipePR]

Arven is too hot-headed for Ash to befriend.

Strange take considering that one of Ash's first and best friends is Misty.

To be honest Ash is better off on his own. I feel he would focus more by himself. Plus he should not go to school.

It seems to me that your wish was granted, colleague. Rest in peace.

 

[BeautifulSylveon]

Among the many problems I have with SM, there is also the Pokémon Center Episode. While I don’t consider this episode bad in and of itself, I absolutely hate the scene where Ash is forced to crossdress by the girls.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Johto League
Harrison - Top 4
Gary - Top 16
Macy - Top 48
Jackson - Top 48

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Hoenn League
Tyson - Winner
Morrison - Top 16
Katie - Top 32
Clark - Top 64
Dominick - Top 256

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Sinnoh League
Tobias - Winner
Paul - Top 8
Conway - Top 16
Barry - Top 16
Nando - Top 64

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Unova League
Virgil - Winner
Dino - Runner Up
Cameron - Top 4
Stephan - Top 16
Bianca - Top 64
Trip - Top 128

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Kalos League
Alain - Winner
Sawyer - Top 4
Remo - Top 4
Tierno - Top 8
Trevor - Top 64

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Alola League
Kiawe - Top 4
Guzma - Top 4
Lana - Top 8
Sophocles - Top 8
Hau - Top 8
James (Team Rocket) - Top 8
Lillie - Top 16
Acerola - Top 16
Jessie (Team Rocket) - Top 16
Mina - Top 16
Mallow - Top 16
Samson Oak (Professor) - Top 16
Master Fisherman - Top 151
DJ Leo - Top 151

You've gotta be f*cking kidding me!

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

So because they're too much alike, they wouldn't get along? That feels a bit strange to me. They would love to battle each other all the time.

Exactly. It would get boring and repetitive quickly. Now Nemona as a rival would be interesting but Ash wouldn’t really give a damn about Nemona either. Unless the writers dumb down Ash again every time a new saga starts which was stupid, especially now that he became world champion.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Exactly. It would get boring and repetitive quickly. Now Nemona as a rival would be interesting but Ash wouldn’t really give a damn about Nemona either. Unless the writers dumb down Ash again every time a new saga starts which was stupid, especially now that he became world champion.

That still doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it would get boring and repetitive for the audience, but that's not what you were talking about before. I don't think that Ash would react that way to Nemona. Why wouldn't he care about Nemona as a rival either? If he's willing to battle random nobodies after becoming a World Champion, I think that he'd be willing to battle a Champion ranked trainer like Nemona.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

That still doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it would get boring and repetitive for the audience, but that's not what you were talking about before. I don't think that Ash would react that way to Nemona. Why wouldn't he care about Nemona as a rival either? If he's willing to battle random nobodies after becoming a World Champion, I think that he'd be willing to battle a Champion ranked trainer like Nemona.

But Ash would destroy Nemona even at her best. She might only get 2 maybe 3 of Ash’s Pokemon at best. Ash might see little improvement every time he battles her but still think she’s out of his league. I’d rather see Ash only think about himself and Serena.

 

[Hidden Mew]

But Ash would destroy Nemona even at her best. She might only get 2 maybe 3 of Ash’s Pokemon at best. Ash might see little improvement every time he battles her but still think she’s out of his league. I’d rather see Ash only think about himself and Serena.

Would that really bother Ash though? He loves to battle other trainers. He enjoyed battling Sawyer back in XY even though he was a rookie and Ash was easily defeating him in their first couple of battles. I don't think that being a World Champion would give Ash such a huge ego where he looks down on everyone. I think that this is really just such a bizarre take on Ash's personality. Ash only thinking about himself and Serena also sounds pretty out of character. He isn't particularly selfish, clearly cares about more than just one of his friends and wouldn't dismiss everyone else around him.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

Would that really bother Ash though? He loves to battle other trainers. He enjoyed battling Sawyer back in XY even though he was a rookie and Ash was easily defeating him in their first couple of battles. I don't think that being a World Champion would give Ash such a huge ego where he looks down on everyone. I think that this is really just such a bizarre take on Ash's personality. Ash only thinking about himself and Serena also sounds pretty out of character. He isn't particularly selfish, clearly cares about more than just one of his friends and wouldn't dismiss everyone else around him.

Unlikely. Even at her champion level, Nemona doesn’t have a chance in hell of beating Ash. Plus I think Ash needs to realize friendship is not only his greatest strength, it’s also his greatest weakness. He feels he can’t be the world’s best Pokemon Trainer unless he is an egoist.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Unlikely. Even at her champion level, Nemona doesn’t have a chance in hell of beating Ash.

Unlikely what? That Ash wouldn't enjoy battling Nemona because he'd steamroll her? You do realize that the comment you're replying to already pointed out that Ash enjoys battling regardless of the opponent's power, right?

Also, Ash doesn't think that he can’t be the world’s best Pokemon Trainer unless he is an egoist, he just doesn't think he's become a true Pokemon Master yet, which is not the same thing as being the world's strongest Pokemon Trainer.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

Also, Ash doesn't think that he can’t be the world’s best Pokemon Trainer unless he is an egoist, he just doesn't think he's become a true Pokemon Master yet, which is not the same thing as being the world's strongest Pokemon Trainer

Ash will never catch every Pokemon so he’s never becoming a Pokemon master. Plus the people Ash lost to in leagues were lone wolves so Ash realizes he has to achieve his goal all by himself with only his Pokemon.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Ash will never catch every Pokemon so he’s never becoming a Pokemon master. Plus the people Ash lost to in leagues were lone wolves so Ash realizes he has to achieve his goal all by himself with only his Pokemon.

Catching every Pokemon isn't a requirement to becoming a Pokemon Master, though. Ash also became the strongest Trainer in the world thanks in part to all the support from the friends he made along the way. And several of those lone wolves he lost to didn't actually win the Leagues themselves (and one of the ones that did win, Alain, wasn't actually a lone wolf by the time he challenged the Kalos League), so your point is moot.

Look, it's very obvious that you just want an Ash solo quest, but you don't have to turn him or any potential companions into unlikeable jerks just to try and justify your wants. Besides, you technically already have an Ash solo quest in the form of the AU movies.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Unlikely. Even at her champion level, Nemona doesn’t have a chance in hell of beating Ash. Plus I think Ash needs to realize friendship is not only his greatest strength, it’s also his greatest weakness. He feels he can’t be the world’s best Pokemon Trainer unless he is an egoist.

Would that really bother Ash though? Even if he defeated Nemona every single time, he'd still enjoy it and I'm sure that Nemona would too given how she acts whenever the player character defeats her. The idea that friendship is Ash's greatest weakness is so strange. He's already a World Champion trainer and he had support from his friends. He doesn't have to get a huge ego to be stronger.

Ash will never catch every Pokemon so he’s never becoming a Pokemon master. Plus the people Ash lost to in leagues were lone wolves so Ash realizes he has to achieve his goal all by himself with only his Pokemon.

I already mentioned that catching every Pokemon is not how one becomes a Pokemon Master. We never really got a clear indication of what a Pokemon Master really is in the anime. The closest was Ash's line about befriending every Pokemon in the To Be A Pokemon Master finale. Aside from Tobias, I don't think that any of the people Ash lost to in Leagues would be considered lone wolves. Alain definitely wouldn't be considered a lone wolf when he was trying to help Mairin's Chespin by the time he met Ash. Even if he did lose to lone wolves, why would that make Ash think he needed to change his entire personality to achieve his goal? He's already a World Championand more importantly, he said that becoming a Champion was never his goal in the first place. I don't think he'd value strength over friendship. That just isn't Ash.

 

[a230]

The worst is clearly Horizon. Without Ash,the anima has became boring.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

The worst is clearly Horizon. Without Ash,the anima has became boring.

Keeping Ash around after Kalos made the anime boring and stale. Plus it doesn’t help he had awful companions in both SM & JN. Sure Ash won a league and became world champion but each saga had 3 years of awful writing. Ash was the only person who should have won the Alola League. Had Ash lost to Leon fans would have wanted the anime cancelled for screwing Ash out of reaching the top. Horizons is a fresh start and without Ash it feels more enjoyable.

 

[UxieLover1994]

The worst is clearly Horizon. Without Ash,the anima has became boring.

Keeping Ash around after Kalos made the anime boring and stale. Plus it doesn’t help he had awful companions in both SM & JN. Sure Ash won a league and became world champion but each saga had 3 years of awful writing. Ash was the only person who should have won the Alola League. Had Ash lost to Leon fans would have wanted the anime cancelled for screwing Ash out of reaching the top. Horizons is a fresh start and without Ash it feels more enjoyable.

The anime had been on the edge since the infamous Kalos League. Even here in the Bulbagarden forums, most of us were so jaded over that loss that our question for the Alola League was "Who will beat Ash?", even after leaks of his victory came. I personally think the writers only had Ash win the Alola League to keep the anime from being cancelled in disgrace.

But regardless, the damage is done. The anime's reputation has been shattered by the Kalos League, and some former fans have lost faith in the writers, especially thanks to some SM and JN episodes having terrible writing. Replacing Ash, Pikachu, and Team Rocket with a new set of protagonists and antagonists is probably another way to regain their reputation, but whether it would work in the long run remains to be seen. I wouldn't call Horizons the "worst" yet, as we're just 41 episodes in as of this post, and it's only slightly better than Journeys, and there's a chance Ash and Pikachu could return (if mainly to boost ratings). We just have to see...

With the franchise strong enough that we see occasional animated shorts, a live-action film, music videos, and RL events, do we need this anime anymore?

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

But regardless, the damage is done. The anime's reputation has been shattered by the Kalos League, and some former fans have lost faith in the writers, especially thanks to some SM and JN episodes having terrible writing. Replacing Ash, Pikachu, and Team Rocket with a new set of protagonists and antagonists is probably another way to regain their reputation, but whether it would work in the long run remains to be seen. I wouldn't call Horizons the "worst" yet, as we're just 41 episodes in as of this post, and it's only slightly better than Journeys, and there's a chance Ash and Pikachu could return (if mainly to boost ratings). We just have to see...

Ironically Ash returning would cause the ratings to tank. I feel fans were sick & tired of Ash. That doesn’t mean they hate Ash, they felt fatigue set in with him.

 

[UxieLover1994]

Ironically Ash returning would cause the ratings to tank. I feel fans were sick & tired of Ash. That doesn’t mean they hate Ash, they felt fatigue set in with him.

It's a morally grey topic. Some people would want Horizons to not have Ash appear because they've had enough of him after 25 years of little progress, but others are so upset that he was replaced that they want Ash to appear in Horizons, even if just as a cameo. I would think they'll only bring him back if ratings for Horizons suddenly drop, and the writers want an easy stunt, which is probably why the previous series had an open-ended finale.