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so was ash x lillie ever that popular?

ripplefieldz

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i need to emphasize that like. this is not about my opinions on any ships, i have like one ship i actually care much for and then there's a few others i respect because my friends like them. aurealisshipping is not in either of these, it's just kind of a thing that exists i guess. anyway, so i've noticed something a bit odd with sun/moon and really, i think journeys too. so like, aside from bw apparently, like every gen up to alola had the obligatory ship between ash and his female companion. with sun/moon i straight up had never heard of a single ship for ash with ANY of the gals for a good while (i just mention lillie since she's probably the most "major" out of the three), even before i actually decided to give pokeani more of a watch i had heard of these other pairings. but never alola. and it's not like i never heard of any ash ships for alola either, my grudge against trustedpartnershipping (whole other thing that would probably spiral into an argument) shows that. journeys has a similar thing going on with ash x koharu vs journeyshipping, although journeyshipping falls into the "yeah you're fine" category for me.

so like, tldr yeah did i just miss it or did alola not have a big obligatory female companion ship, if any big obligatory ship at all? my current theory is that the tonal shift from xyz to sm drove away most of the people who got these popular, plus serena had also happened in xyz and while i don't care for amourshipping, from what i know the writers were definitely trying to push some hype whether or not they actually intended for the ship to be canon. so, yeah never thought i'd be here of all places, but hey, if there's one good thing i can say about ship culture it's that it can certainly be interesting to look into in cases like this.
 

Orchid

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From what I gathered, yes... sort of.

I don't think it was ever as massively popular as any of the ones preceding it, but I do remember seeing a lot of AureliaShipping during SM's run. I wasn't even really watching SM at the time, yet I still managed to stumble across it on multiple occasions.
I think it'd be fair to say it was probably the biggest ship from that saga, at least fitting that description — BlueAngelShipping (Ash & Lana), while somewhat popular in its own right, wasn't quite as prominent.

I wasn't entirely active in the Pokeani fanbase during Alola though, so this is all just from personal recollection (and a cursory Google search or two). If those who were active could chime in, that'd be great!

so like, aside from bw apparently, like every gen up to alola had the obligatory ship between ash and his female companion.
NegaiShipping has its fans too! I mean, heck, here's the old thread for it that was started in 2010. You don't hear too much about it these days, but it had its moment in the spotlight, at the very least.
 

takoyaki

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To me a reason why this could be, perceived or not, is the presence of multiple shippable characters in the anime during that time. Gladion, Lana, Mallow, Misty and Brock who came back, Kiawe, Sophocles, Acerola,etcetc?? From my recollection of that time, shipping of those characters was almost nonexistent in lieu of like... more popular ones like amourshipping and pokeshipping.

Just my two cents~
 

Manqoba

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i need to emphasize that like. this is not about my opinions on any ships, i have like one ship i actually care much for and then there's a few others i respect because my friends like them. aurealisshipping is not in either of these, it's just kind of a thing that exists i guess. anyway, so i've noticed something a bit odd with sun/moon and really, i think journeys too. so like, aside from bw apparently, like every gen up to alola had the obligatory ship between ash and his female companion. with sun/moon i straight up had never heard of a single ship for ash with ANY of the gals for a good while (i just mention lillie since she's probably the most "major" out of the three), even before i actually decided to give pokeani more of a watch i had heard of these other pairings. but never alola. and it's not like i never heard of any ash ships for alola either, my grudge against trustedpartnershipping (whole other thing that would probably spiral into an argument) shows that. journeys has a similar thing going on with ash x koharu vs journeyshipping, although journeyshipping falls into the "yeah you're fine" category for me.

so like, tldr yeah did i just miss it or did alola not have a big obligatory female companion ship, if any big obligatory ship at all? my current theory is that the tonal shift from xyz to sm drove away most of the people who got these popular, plus serena had also happened in xyz and while i don't care for amourshipping, from what i know the writers were definitely trying to push some hype whether or not they actually intended for the ship to be canon. so, yeah never thought i'd be here of all places, but hey, if there's one good thing i can say about ship culture it's that it can certainly be interesting to look into in cases like this.
There were a lot of reasons for this. I'd have to say AureliaShipping was the most popular in Alola compared to Aloha and BlueAngel, but none of these pairings were really set up for success. Having three new Pokegirls all vying for screentime and public attention meant none of them received the same kind of interactions as they would've alone. AureliaShipping also had the unsavory position of following up AmourShipping and debatably the biggest moment in Pokemon shipping, which took place only three weeks prior to SM's first episode. Whether because of Amour's success or simply because of changing social attitudes, Pokemon shipping as a whole was in decline during SM and that's a trend that can still be felt today. Finally, SM was also an era when Pokemon shipping became much more decentralized. People (especially those interested in new pairings) primarily discussed their pairings on sites like Tumblr and Twitter or in Discord groups rather than on Pokemon forums like Bulbagarden or Serebii, which was especially popular before. Serebii's AmourShipping threads had about 2200 pages by the end of XY, while AureliaShipping managed only 22 during SM. This was also a lost era for the Pokemon shipping list (one that we're still very much recovering from) which compounded the problem with people leaving.

And a brief note on NegaiShipping, the pairing was actually strong and healthy in the first half-season or so of Best Wishes. It was never at the same pace as PearlShipping or AmourShipping, but more than kept pace with its rival WishfulShipping and there was a healthy amount of support and respect for it. That all just faded as the quality of Best Wishes became clear. I think people wanted to just move past what seemed to be an unredeemable series for many. But Negai did have its day, while Aurelia and especially Aloha and BlueAngel never really had the steam that pairings before them did.
 
Last edited:

Shadao

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AureliaShipping did have enough going for it to get its own folder for TV Tropes, but only relative compared to other Ash ships during SM. I honestly believe it was a combination of Ash looking more childish (as in, an actual ten-year old), the large cast diluting focus on who to pair Ash with, the emphasis on family matters (really, the only romance was Kukui and Burnet... who also became surrogate parents to Ash), and of course, AmourShipping.

AmourShipping is the ship that sank all ships with Ash, with the exception of Ash x Goh aka JourneyShipping and Ash x Dawn aka Pearlshipping. But JourneyShipping only thrived because Goh was promoted as a co-protagonist and has actually appeared in more episodes in Journey than Ash (to the best of my knowledge). His constant presence alongside Ash allows JourneyShipping to build a lot of ship tease moments and interactions for a fanbase to form around it. As for PearlShipping, the deep friendship Ash and Dawn accumulated over four years is a very big war chest of moments for them. But Ash x Chloe? Yeah, due to a relative lack of interaction plus the fact that Chloe is more comfortable talking to Goh than with Ash, it cannot survive under Amourshipping's shadow.

The reason why AmourShipping spelled the end of shipping Ash with every new girl is because it's the closest canonical ship we could ever get out of the anime. The fact that it was canonical on Serena's end and the fact that Serena actually manages to do the one thing long thought impossible in the anime (Kissing Ash on the lips) is what attracts many fans to this ship to begin with. It's like watching Jurassic Park or Pirates of the Caribbean or Terminator 2. It's so good and top tier that virtually all successors will be seen as inferior, unable to live up to the large impact of these installments.

The only way for any rival Ash ships to get a chance is a large war chest of ship tease moments to rival that of AmourShipping. But it's clear that writers have a favorite for Ash ships. Once Serena is popular with fans, there was no chance for any Poke Girl to become the next big Ash Ship and thus the writers don't bother. Only JourneyShipping managed to thrive mainly because a platonic bromance isn't really seen as LGBT subtext by the writers (even if it's obvious to the audience). Incidentally, it's also why PearlShipping still persisted because Ash and Dawn have such a good platonic relationship that shippers can see the romance subtext even if the writers do not.
 

DawningWinds

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AureliaShipping did have enough going for it to get its own folder for TV Tropes, but only relative compared to other Ash ships during SM. I honestly believe it was a combination of Ash looking more childish (as in, an actual ten-year old), the large cast diluting focus on who to pair Ash with, the emphasis on family matters (really, the only romance was Kukui and Burnet... who also became surrogate parents to Ash), and of course, AmourShipping.

AmourShipping is the ship that sank all ships with Ash, with the exception of Ash x Goh aka JourneyShipping and Ash x Dawn aka Pearlshipping. But JourneyShipping only thrived because Goh was promoted as a co-protagonist and has actually appeared in more episodes in Journey than Ash (to the best of my knowledge). His constant presence alongside Ash allows JourneyShipping to build a lot of ship tease moments and interactions for a fanbase to form around it. As for PearlShipping, the deep friendship Ash and Dawn accumulated over four years is a very big war chest of moments for them. But Ash x Chloe? Yeah, due to a relative lack of interaction plus the fact that Chloe is more comfortable talking to Goh than with Ash, it cannot survive under Amourshipping's shadow.

The reason why AmourShipping spelled the end of shipping Ash with every new girl is because it's the closest canonical ship we could ever get out of the anime. The fact that it was canonical on Serena's end and the fact that Serena actually manages to do the one thing long thought impossible in the anime (Kissing Ash on the lips) is what attracts many fans to this ship to begin with. It's like watching Jurassic Park or Pirates of the Caribbean or Terminator 2. It's so good and top tier that virtually all successors will be seen as inferior, unable to live up to the large impact of these installments.

The only way for any rival Ash ships to get a chance is a large war chest of ship tease moments to rival that of AmourShipping. But it's clear that writers have a favorite for Ash ships. Once Serena is popular with fans, there was no chance for any Poke Girl to become the next big Ash Ship and thus the writers don't bother. Only JourneyShipping managed to thrive mainly because a platonic bromance isn't really seen as LGBT subtext by the writers (even if it's obvious to the audience). Incidentally, it's also why PearlShipping still persisted because Ash and Dawn have such a good platonic relationship that shippers can see the romance subtext even if the writers do not.
I think PokeShipping also still has a decent following? It has the advantage of having been the original, so a lot of people hold onto it for nostalgia's sake, and there were a lot of pretty intentional seeming hints. I've also still seen a fair few AdvanceShippers; which has a similar advantage of being so early in the anime timeline, but I do think there's less of them in part because of the popularity of rival May ship ContestShipping, in part because later Ash pairings interested people more, and in part because some of its original fans have probably left the fandom (same with PokeShipping on the last point, though I do think its hurt the ship less).

I on't really see people ship with Ash that much is Iris though; coming right before AmourShipping and in what's general accepted as one of the Pokemon anime's worst eras probably hurts that. Or Dawn for that matter; from what I've seen, Appeal, Penguin, and Heattag are her most popular ships, rather than there being too many PearlShippers.

I also think shipping Ash with Bianca or Latias from M05 still isn't that uncommon; probably for similar-ish reasons as Serena.
 

Shadao

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I think PokeShipping also still has a decent following? It has the advantage of having been the original, so a lot of people hold onto it for nostalgia's sake, and there were a lot of pretty intentional seeming hints. I've also still seen a fair few AdvanceShippers; which has a similar advantage of being so early in the anime timeline, but I do think there's less of them in part because of the popularity of rival May ship ContestShipping, in part because later Ash pairings interested people more, and in part because some of its original fans have probably left the fandom (same with PokeShipping on the last point, though I do think its hurt the ship less).

I have to admit, I kinda forgot Pokeshipping since isn't as prevalent as it used to be, and PearlShipping resurged when Dawn came back. It's still around, but I think part of its popularity sank when it becomes clear that Misty's feelings for Ash could easily be reinterpreted as a platonic relationship, whereas Serena's feelings for Ash is nearly impossible to see it as anything but romantic.

It's rather ironic since Pokeshipping was easily the most romantic of all Ash ships, and that's why it remained popular and enduring for so long. Then Amourshipping came and put a new standard of romance, which makes Pokeshipping look so subtle that some even believe the misconception that the romance between Ash and Misty was made up by 4Kids. That's how big of an impact it took.
 

Manqoba

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AureliaShipping did have enough going for it to get its own folder for TV Tropes, but only relative compared to other Ash ships during SM. I honestly believe it was a combination of Ash looking more childish (as in, an actual ten-year old), the large cast diluting focus on who to pair Ash with, the emphasis on family matters (really, the only romance was Kukui and Burnet... who also became surrogate parents to Ash), and of course, AmourShipping.

AmourShipping is the ship that sank all ships with Ash, with the exception of Ash x Goh aka JourneyShipping and Ash x Dawn aka Pearlshipping. But JourneyShipping only thrived because Goh was promoted as a co-protagonist and has actually appeared in more episodes in Journey than Ash (to the best of my knowledge). His constant presence alongside Ash allows JourneyShipping to build a lot of ship tease moments and interactions for a fanbase to form around it. As for PearlShipping, the deep friendship Ash and Dawn accumulated over four years is a very big war chest of moments for them. But Ash x Chloe? Yeah, due to a relative lack of interaction plus the fact that Chloe is more comfortable talking to Goh than with Ash, it cannot survive under Amourshipping's shadow.

The reason why AmourShipping spelled the end of shipping Ash with every new girl is because it's the closest canonical ship we could ever get out of the anime. The fact that it was canonical on Serena's end and the fact that Serena actually manages to do the one thing long thought impossible in the anime (Kissing Ash on the lips) is what attracts many fans to this ship to begin with. It's like watching Jurassic Park or Pirates of the Caribbean or Terminator 2. It's so good and top tier that virtually all successors will be seen as inferior, unable to live up to the large impact of these installments.

The only way for any rival Ash ships to get a chance is a large war chest of ship tease moments to rival that of AmourShipping. But it's clear that writers have a favorite for Ash ships. Once Serena is popular with fans, there was no chance for any Poke Girl to become the next big Ash Ship and thus the writers don't bother. Only JourneyShipping managed to thrive mainly because a platonic bromance isn't really seen as LGBT subtext by the writers (even if it's obvious to the audience). Incidentally, it's also why PearlShipping still persisted because Ash and Dawn have such a good platonic relationship that shippers can see the romance subtext even if the writers do not.
I honestly wouldn't attribute quite so much of the effect to AmourShipping, given how complicated the landscape is and how many different circumstances combined to form this storm. I agree that it was definitely a factor, but AmourShipping and to a lesser extent NegaiShipping flourished after PearlShipping, even though that was generally considered the furthest they would go at the time. Certainly Amour has a lot about it that makes it unique and probably overpowering, but there were a lot of other factors that compounded it.

I think PokeShipping also still has a decent following? It has the advantage of having been the original, so a lot of people hold onto it for nostalgia's sake, and there were a lot of pretty intentional seeming hints. I've also still seen a fair few AdvanceShippers; which has a similar advantage of being so early in the anime timeline, but I do think there's less of them in part because of the popularity of rival May ship ContestShipping, in part because later Ash pairings interested people more, and in part because some of its original fans have probably left the fandom (same with PokeShipping on the last point, though I do think its hurt the ship less).

I on't really see people ship with Ash that much is Iris though; coming right before AmourShipping and in what's general accepted as one of the Pokemon anime's worst eras probably hurts that. Or Dawn for that matter; from what I've seen, Appeal, Penguin, and Heattag are her most popular ships, rather than there being too many PearlShippers.

I also think shipping Ash with Bianca or Latias from M05 still isn't that uncommon; probably for similar-ish reasons as Serena.
Looking at the four major Ash pairings, PokeShipping, AdvanceShipping, PearlShipping, and AmourShipping, it seems that AmourShipping is definitely the most popular by all of the barometers I checked such as forum activity and stories published on ff.net/ao3. PokeShipping takes a relatively distant second, with AdvanceShipping not too far behind it. Most surprisingly, PearlShipping seems to easily be the least popular of the four, which is a huge switch from 6 years ago when it rivaled AmourShipping. I guess the wind really left their sails after the XY finale? It's not unrealistic considering how dedicated some major PearlShipping groups were to trying to disprove Amour.

AdvanceShipping and PearlShipping definitely do have their rivals in the mix, though I should note IkariShipping was and continues to be the most popular alternative Dawn ship. NegaiShipping definitely doesn't have much left, but there's still more content for it than AltoShipping. I'm honestly not convinced anyone ships Ash and Latias except as a joke; there's even a meme about it in the board description for this board.
 

FelipePR

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I don't really see people ship with Ash that much is Iris though; coming right before AmourShipping and in what's general accepted as one of the Pokemon anime's worst eras probably hurts that. Or Dawn for that matter; from what I've seen, Appeal, Penguin, and Heattag are her most popular ships, rather than there being too many PearlShippers.

I also think shipping Ash with Bianca or Latias from M05 still isn't that uncommon; probably for similar-ish reasons as Serena.

I agree with the first part of your post, but I can't believe that Pearlshipping is less popular than Appeal, Penguin, and Heattag ships. Not saying that these ships are unpopular, but Pearlshipping should probably still be in the TOP 5 of the franchise, even more so with Dawn's recent appearances.

I think that Ash and Bianca was never a really big ship, although it had its influence. And Ash/Latias was probably only relevant 15/20 years ago, now most people don't even know about it
 
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