Space World 1997 demo for Pokemon Gold leaked

[prog rocker]

Oh hey, realized something- given its original status as a poison-type, I wonder if Umbreon's rings were a reference to the blue-ringed octopus? That might also explain the eventual color of its shiny form.

If that's true, then that makes me like it even more!

By the way I searched around Kanto City. Apparently, the gym I skipped was in Johto, so I still don't know where it is. The city with the zoo was Fuchsia City apparently (didn't know I was in Kanto at the time). You were right. The gym is in Fake Cerulean, not Not-Viridian. I wonder where's Whitney/Jasmine's gym since that's the one I didn't find.

EDIT: By the way, is there any chance that Okera/Gama is beta Kurt? That would explain why his sprite is there.

 

[Oriden]

If that's true, then that makes me like it even more!

By the way I searched around Kanto City. Apparently, the gym I skipped was in Johto, so I still don't know where it is. The city with the zoo was Fuchsia City apparently (didn't know I was in Kanto at the time). You were right. The gym is in Fake Cerulean, not Not-Viridian. I wonder where's Whitney/Jasmine's gym since that's the one I didn't find.

EDIT: By the way, is there any chance that Okera/Gama is beta Kurt? That would explain why he's sprite is there.

Kurt's trainer sprite is used as a placeholder for a lot of people, so I dunno. =/

 

[prog rocker]

Kurt's trainer sprite is used as a placeholder for a lot of people, so I dunno. =/

I know, but the fact that Kurt's sprite was cut in the final game makes me think that he was more important in the beta than in the final version.

 

[Oriden]

I know, but the fact that Kurt's sprite was cut in the final game makes me think that he was more important in the beta than in the final version.

Ohhhh damn, I didn't even notice that- huh. Now that you mention it, Kurt must have been meant to battle you at some point because he wouldn't need a trainer sprite otherwise. Boy did he get shafted in the final version.

 

[Cute Charm]

By the way, is there any chance that Okera/Gama is beta Kurt? That would explain why his sprite is there.

If that's the case than we can safely say he was replaced with Pryce as the old man gym leader.

 

[Envoy]

I wish some of the scrapped monscan be introduced for Gen VIII or Sinnoh remakes (for the evos).
I would have liked if they kept Leafeon needing a Leaf Stone instead of a Moss Rock when they re-introduced it in Gen IV.

I just realized that the Ice Stone exists now. They could easily retcon it so that Leafeon evolves from a Leaf Stone and Glaceon evolves from an Ice Stone. Of course, that would imply Game Freak was interested in streamlining these games, which we all know is a joke.

 

[Esserise]

Of course, that would imply Game Freak was interested in streamlining these games, which we all know is a joke.

That isn’t really a case where any streamlining would be warranted, though. Correlation to evolutionary stones is clearly not the point of the Eeveelutions; the point is that Eevee evolves differently based on different external pressures. Sometimes those pressures turn out to be evolutionary stones, but not always. The theme is adaptation and diversity, not fashionable rock arrangements and technical uniformity. It’s like saying they could modify Karrablast to evolve by leveling it up while holding a Metal Coat. Well, yes, they rather could do that, but it would go entirely against that Pokémon’s evolutionary concept.

 

[Oriden]

I just realized that the Ice Stone exists now. They could easily retcon it so that Leafeon evolves from a Leaf Stone and Glaceon evolves from an Ice Stone. Of course, that would imply Game Freak was interested in streamlining these games, which we all know is a joke.

I really would like to see them retcon those, because it's kind of stupid to have to add the Moss and Ice Rocks into every game when we could just add more uses to the evolution stones. Even if they were to retcon it so those rocks were large evolution stone deposits all along so it makes some bit of sense.

I don't want to see all of the eeveelutions become stone evolutions because that's just boring- I think Espeon and Umbreon are fine as is- but if Leafeon and Glaceon are going to evolve via rocks anyway, why not make it the same rocks that you can actually carry with you?

Or what might be neat is a compromise of sorts- make the Moss and Ice Rocks into large evolution stones, so you can evolve near them, but also be able to find rare fragments of them in the form of the Leaf and Ice stones. Maybe expand that to the other evolution stones as well. That way either you get a rare evolution item to take with you or you have to run back to that location to evolve something. Make it a pain in the butt to get there, too, so there's pros and cons either way.

 

[Kallyle]

I really would like to see them retcon those, because it's kind of stupid to have to add the Moss and Ice Rocks into every game when we could just add more uses to the evolution stones. Even if they were to retcon it so those rocks were large evolution stone deposits all along so it makes some bit of sense.

I don't want to see all of the eeveelutions become stone evolutions because that's just boring- I think Espeon and Umbreon are fine as is- but if Leafeon and Glaceon are going to evolve via rocks anyway, why not make it the same rocks that you can actually carry with you?

Or what might be neat is a compromise of sorts- make the Moss and Ice Rocks into large evolution stones, so you can evolve near them, but also be able to find rare fragments of them in the form of the Leaf and Ice stones. Maybe expand that to the other evolution stones as well. That way either you get a rare evolution item to take with you or you have to run back to that location to evolve something. Make it a pain in the butt to get there, too, so there's pros and cons either way.

In addition, to this, perhaps all the other Pokémon who use the Ice and Leaf stones could evolve near those rocks as well for the sake of consistency.

 

[Esserise]

because it's kind of stupid to have to add the Moss and Ice Rocks into every game

How is it “kind of stupid” when those Rocks have yet to be any kind of problem at all? Every region has had a forest and a cold area anyway, and I think it’s pretty unlikely that they ever won’t. Game Freak love their early-game bugs and their ice-sliding puzzles too much.

While we’re at it, why does everybody draw their knives out when it comes to the Moss and Ice Rocks, but nobody seems to have a problem with the special magnetic field needed for Magnezone and Probopass? How come nobody asks for them to be retconned into Thunder Stone evolutions?

 

[Oriden]

How is it “kind of stupid” when those Rocks have yet to be any kind of problem at all? Every region has had a forest and a cold area anyway, and I think it’s pretty unlikely that they ever won’t. Game Freak love their early-game bugs and their ice-sliding puzzles too much.

While we’re at it, why does everybody draw their knives out when it comes to the Moss and Ice Rocks, but nobody seems to have a problem with the special magnetic field needed for Magnezone and Probopass? How come nobody asks for them to be retconned into Thunder Stone evolutions?

Because they don't evolve from elemental rocks but a different kind of elemental rock from the elemental rock that was already evolving things?

 

[Esserise]

Because they don't evolve from elemental rocks but a different kind of elemental rock from the elemental rock that was already evolving things?

Yes, but again, that’s the point. The Moss/Ice Rock evolutions are sort of like a hybrid of the previous two evolution methods. Elemental stones of some sort are involved, but the evolution is ignited by leveling up in the presence of a specific environmental influence (as it is with Espeon and Umbreon, who respond to sunlight and moonlight) rather than physical contact, and yet unlike Espeon and Umbreon, a strong friendship with Eevee isn’t necessary for Leafeon and Glaceon to come out (in fact, the Moss and Ice Rocks are prominent enough to override the combination of sunlight/moonlight and high friendship, as well as the conditions for Sylveon, if any of those are present). Different combinations of factors = different results.

 

[Oriden]

Yes, but again, that’s the point. The Moss/Ice Rock evolutions are sort of like a hybrid of the previous two evolution methods. Elemental stones of some sort are involved, but the evolution is ignited by leveling up in the presence of a specific environmental influence (as it is with Espeon and Umbreon, who respond to sunlight and moonlight) rather than physical contact, and yet unlike Espeon and Umbreon, a strong friendship with Eevee isn’t necessary for Leafeon and Glaceon to come out (in fact, the Moss and Ice Rocks are prominent enough to override the combination of sunlight/moonlight and high friendship, as well as the conditions for Sylveon, if any of those are present). Different combinations of factors = different results.

I'd still really like to see the methods combined, thus giving more purpose to the rocks and the stones by making them essentially the same material and both able to evolve more pokemon. It could pose more of an in-game challenge, too, if there were more elemental rocks (Fire Rock, Water Rock, etc.) and they were put in more difficult to reach places, with the stones being rare finds, thus making it so that you had a choice of either pursuing that location to evolve your pokemon that need elemental rocks/stones to evolve or use a relatively rare item to do the same thing. That way, instead of having items that evolve relatively few pokemon and a special location with the entire purpose of specifically evolving one, you could get more use out of both.

It could be used as an opportunity to provide some explanation/lore to the evo stones/rocks, as well, and I'm certainly a fan of world-building.

 

[Esserise]

I'd still really like to see the methods combined, thus giving more purpose to the rocks and the stones by making them essentially the same material and both able to evolve more pokemon. It could pose more of an in-game challenge, too, if there were more elemental rocks (Fire Rock, Water Rock, etc.) and they were put in more difficult to reach places, with the stones being rare finds, thus making it so that you had a choice of either pursuing that location to evolve your pokemon that need elemental rocks/stones to evolve or use a relatively rare item to do the same thing. That way, instead of having items that evolve relatively few pokemon and a special location with the entire purpose of specifically evolving one, you could get more use out of both.

It could be used as an opportunity to provide some explanation/lore to the evo stones/rocks, as well, and I'm certainly a fan of world-building.

Well, I’m not exactly opposed to what you’re saying here; in general, what you’re suggesting would be perfectly reasonable. My point was simply that the current setup is likely the way it is by intention, rather than being some mess that the programmers have yet to clean up.

 

[Oriden]

Well, I’m not exactly opposed to what you’re saying here; in general, what you’re suggesting would be perfectly reasonable. My point was simply that the current setup is likely the way it is by intention, rather than being some mess that the programmers have yet to clean up.

Yeah, I agree to an extent- at least in it not being a mess, necessarily. Just something that I would like to see reworked/better applied. But I do think that its original application gives a strong feeling of "weak excuse as to why this other similar method didn't work in previous generations instead of simply retconning it"- much like the incense added in gen 3. We don't really need the cover-up anymore, so it would be nice to combine the functionality instead. Especially now that we do have the Ice Stone.

 

[Almonds]

Ok, so I went through the whole dex. I was surprised to see so many pre-evolutions of the initial 151 that were initially planned to be added but didn't make the cut.

• Anyways, I'm glad that most of the beta-artwork were either taken out or re-designed before the official release. I do like some of the initial designs like beta Smoochum and beta Mantyke, but overall, I'm satisfied with the finalized artwork that we've been enjoying for the past years. Pre-Vulpix is absolutely adorable, but I'm guessing that they saved it and refined its looks for Alolan Vulpix.
• The only pokemon I really miss getting taken out are the cat lines with bells on their neck and tail respectively; and the sea lion that balances a flaming rock on its nose.
• I especially like the decision they took with beta Sneasel. If they didn't change its design to a more sinister one, then we might have never gotten Weavile.
• The eel that comes just before Crobat is (like many others have mentioned) definitely a beta-Huntail.
• By the way... the beta Porygon2 seems to have inspired the design for Sun Castform.
• I'm curious about the 'Happy' pokemon, though - was that supposed to be beta Blissey or beta Happiny? The artwork doesn't look clear to me.
• Am I guessing correctly about the beta Bellsprout-branch-evolution-kind-of-pokemon?
• Three headed bird. Probably Doduo pre-evo. But wait, where would its head go before it comes back as Dodrio?
• Did they mess up the Slowpoke line? That pokemon that comes after Umbreon seems to be 99% the shell on Slowbro's tail, but it exists as a separate being? Then what about Slowking and its shell-crown? Maybe they got rid of that pokemon because it seemed to complicate things?

 

[Oriden]

Ok, so I went through the whole dex. I was surprised to see so many pre-evolutions of the initial 151 that were initially planned to be added but didn't make the cut.

• Anyways, I'm glad that most of the beta-artwork were either taken out or re-designed before the official release. I do like some of the initial designs like beta Smoochum and beta Mantyke, but overall, I'm satisfied with the finalized artwork that we've been enjoying for the past years. Pre-Vulpix is absolutely adorable, but I'm guessing that they saved it and refined its looks for Alolan Vulpix.
• The only pokemon I really miss getting taken out are the cat lines with bells on their neck and tail respectively; and the sea lion that balances a flaming rock on its nose.
• I especially like the decision they took with beta Sneasel. If they didn't change its design to a more sinister one, then we might have never gotten Weavile.
• The eel that comes just before Crobat is (like many others have mentioned) definitely a beta-Huntail.
• By the way... the beta Porygon2 seems to have inspired the design for Sun Castform.
• I'm curious about the 'Happy' pokemon, though - was that supposed to be beta Blissey or beta Happiny? The artwork doesn't look clear to me.
• Am I guessing correctly about the beta Bellsprout-branch-evolution-kind-of-pokemon?
• Three headed bird. Probably Doduo pre-evo. But wait, where would its head go before it comes back as Dodrio?
• Did they mess up the Slowpoke line? That pokemon that comes after Umbreon seems to be 99% the shell on Slowbro's tail, but it exists as a separate being? Then what about Slowking and its shell-crown? Maybe they got rid of that pokemon because it seemed to complicate things?

Happi would be Blissey, it evolves from Chansey. =3
And yeah, Bellsprout was gonna get a branched evolution like Oddish did.

Can't confirm, but based on the pokedex entries, I think it's possible that the shell was its own separate thing and was going to be part of a mechanic where Slowbro or Slowking could lose their shell and it would become a separate pokemon (kinda similar to how Nincada evolves into two pokemon, I guess) but probably was dropped due to being complicated to implement. It's a shame, but it makes sense because if the shell falls off and you wind up with a slowpoke and a new pokemon... then you evolve slowpoke... and it happens again... you'd just wind up generating new shell mons infinitely.

Personally, I think both of Tangela's scrapped evos are a major loss. D= The baby was perfect and the evolution was so much better in design than Tangrowth turned out to be. I hope they decide to bring them back one day.

 

[coolcatkim22]

I always thought that the reason that Eevee evolves in so many different ways is to keep continuity. It would be strange that you could evolve say Eevee with a Leaf Stone in Gen 2 but not do so 1st Gen. You can see this is also true for any new evolution of old Pokemon, not a single one of them uses a method of evolution previously available in past game

It's clear from early Pokedex entries and this demo that Eevee was supposed to only evolve from evolution stones and that environment was not suppose to have a role in any of its evolutions.
This probably was what inspired them to create the Heart Stone and the Poison Stone in the first place. Plans must of changed however when they decided to give Espeon and Umbreon a day and night motif to reflect the time mechanic in the game.

 

[Oriden]

I always thought that the reason that Eevee evolves in so many different ways is to keep continuity. It would be strange that you could evolve say Eevee with a Leaf Stone in Gen 2 but not do so 1st Gen. You can see this is also true for any new evolution of old Pokemon, not a single one of them uses a method of evolution previously available in past game

It's clear from early Pokedex entries and this demo that Eevee was supposed to only evolve from evolution stones and that environment was not suppose to have a role in any of its evolutions.
This probably was what inspired them to create the Heart Stone and the Poison Stone in the first place. Plans must of changed however when they decided to give Espeon and Umbreon a day and night motif to reflect the time mechanic in the game.

Actually there are a couple pokemon that evolve via moves that were previously available, so... it's like they do these things to try to avoid breaking continuity, but sometimes they goof. XD

 

[Esserise]

I always thought that the reason that Eevee evolves in so many different ways is to keep continuity. It would be strange that you could evolve say Eevee with a Leaf Stone in Gen 2 but not do so 1st Gen. You can see this is also true for any new evolution of old Pokemon, not a single one of them uses a method of evolution previously available in past game.

I’m not sure how much they’d care about that... after all, in Gen 3, Lickitung can learn Rollout and Piloswine can learn Ancient Power, and yet that’s how both of them evolve in Gen 4. Granted, the actual evolution method of evolving by leveling up while knowing a specific move hadn’t been implemented, but it still raises the in-universe continuity question of why those Pokémon didn’t evolve in Gen 3.