Speculation:Will Gen 6 have a third game or something different?

[CalamityRobin]

If there was any way to...

Spoiler

resurrect Lysandre, the version legendary that didn't appear in Y, Xerneas, would be perfect for the task.

I like the way that seems to fit, compared with what Black 2 and White 2 did with Reshiram and Zekrom.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Once again, I never said I expected B2W2 to introduce new Pokémon or next-gen mechanics. I admit it improved the games more than previous third version, but the story was sooooo lacking that it's obvious they didn't put any emphasis on it due to its development having started as a third version. Probably they introduced slightly more in quantity than previous third versions, yet B2W2 still didn't introduce anything that previous third versions haven't added: new characters? Crystal brought Eusine, Emerald introduced Juan and Platinum introduced Charon and Looker; new areas? Platinum added the Distortion World; new battle facilities? There's the Battle Frontier, currently a third version-only feature and way deeper and more complex than the PWT. With all these precedents, I´m pretty sure all those new features would have been implemented nonetheless if Masuda had had it his way and released "Blackish Gray" and "Whitish Gray" instead of Black2 and White2.

The uninteresting storyline is another execution problem, they could've played out the story any way they wanted. And I've never seen a third version create an entirely new hometown, tons of new areas (more than a handful of minor extras), an entirely new storyline path, or new gyms. Third versions must remain faithful to what the first two games did, sequels can take more liberties as to how the game plays out.

No, YOU got it backwards. First, pacing [GSC/HGSS issue] =/= concept. Pacing belongs in the execution cathegory; so no, my point still stands- Johto's issue was pacing, not concept. Second, How is "all new game" a poorer concept that "let's rehash 80% of the game, add 20% new and call it a completely new game"? Also, you are ignoring how I proved the concept can be achieved. Which now I'm going to re-address in further detail.

The pacing is not execution, it's concept. As I explained, there's no way to fix the pacing issue. There's just no way to do it without one area of the game being underwhelmingly low level. That's a concept problem. An execution problem would be if there was a way for it to work, but the developers decided against it.

The problem is that you are stuck on the same game structure and trying to force us into thinking there's no other options available. Bringing in a new game structure won't hurt the games, on the contrary, it will make them feel different. If there is something that nearly everybody complains about is that every game is just the same: beat 7 gyms, face the villain, beat last gym, go to Pokémon League, end credits". Critics and reviewers criticize this aspect, and they do have a point. BW slightly shook this structure and see how well it made.

Nowhere did I say that they should stick to the same old structure that they always do, there's better ways to go about changing that (like removing gyms altogether or making it so you need to earn 8/12 badges to reach the Pokemon League). I was simply saying that 2 regions, 16 badges doesn't work.

That's how Johto did, and yes, I agree with you, it sucked and was pretty underwhelming. But what if after the eighth Gym, instead of being sent to a barren region and your fully-evolved Pokémon go to waste, with wild Pokémon at Lv. 2 and trainer teams no higher than Lv. 40 (which indeed was stupid and made no sense), you are sent to a full-fleshed region, with new sidequests, a proper story, lots of strong trainers to battle, wild Pokémon on the 60-90 level range, and Gym Leaders with rosters between Lv. 60 (9th Gym) and 90 (16TH Gym), for a final boss using a team composed of six Lv. 100 Pokémon (so you can battle your mons in all their fully evolved glory)?

First of all, this doesn't solve the problem with the first region being underleveled. Second, most Pokemon stop learning moves by about Lv. 60-70 anyway except legendaries (which aren't really used much by computer players anyway). So you wouldn't really get the challenge that you're looking for by putting the computer players at Lv. 100 anyway, you could get away with coasting on type advantages and grinding just like the rest of the game.

The scenario I just proposed doesn’t “automatically put you at Lv. 100”, but makes you progress smoothly from Lv. 60’s (E4) to Lv. 100 through the second region challenge, by progressing through the second half of the story, thus earning it by all your effort.

It doesn't feel as rewarding if you reach Lv. 100 by completing the game alone, though. It's "automatic" in the sense that your Pokemon are trained by completing the game, and that's not very satisfying.

Also, something that most people have criticized is precisely the post-game: either it’s shallow, or it’s rushed. See on this very thread the criticisms towards the Looker-Xerosic-Essentia arc. Most people here agree that it felt crammed and rushed. And it is. With five episodes one after another, it felt rushed, and many people in this very thread have stated that dividing it and spreading the episodes throughout the main story would have felt better and more natural.

Usually, the main story has about 5 to 6 main episodes, so if you already have a 5-episode post-game, it gives enough material to spreading it over a second region without feeling it half-assed and barren like GSC Kanto was. This would in turn change a rushed and crammed post-game into a proper second half.

Spreading out the Looker Bureau to another region would have the opposite effect, though. There's not enough in that story arc to flesh out another region, the second region would be completely barren storyline wise. IDK who said that the Looker Bureau was too shallow and rushed, but they're wrong. The only problem with the Looker Bureau arc, like with the rest of the storyline, is that it's poorly paced, with too much clustered towards the end. In terms of content, it's appropriate for a short post game story arc.

I’m sorry, but disguising a third version as a sequel to cash in is not execution, is concept. Let’s not forget that the idea wasn’t “let’s make a sequel that continues the story”, the idea was “Iwata is putting pressure on me to justify the dual release, so let’s add a new protagonist, remove the plot so we can say it has a new story, and call it a sequel”. Even Masuda confessed that. It was beyond execution, the whole concept behind the game was flawed: Masuda never intended to make a sequel at all, he just wanted a dual third version and due to criticisms from Iwata, he disguised it as a sequel.

Not at all, he consciously deciding to design the game a certain way when there are clearly other viable alternatives. Sequels are not by nature similar to third versions, that's just the way Masuda wanted it to be. Hence, it's execution.

If it’s going to blow me away, then yes, it's reasonable. I prefer waiting 3, 4 or even 5 years for an all-new game that's going to surpass all expectations, over having to wait 2 years (which is the usual timeframe between the original pair and the third version) then be fully charged for what is basically a patch that fixes the original pair's issues and nothing more. Heck, GTA players have to wait about 5 years between iterations and they never complain because the wait is worth it. Same for Smash Bros. players - between Melee and Brawl there were 6 years, and it’s already been 6 years since Brawl. There is no need to rush Game Freak, we don’t need a new Pokémon game every year; they can take their time, we can play different games meanwhile.

So you'd rather have one solid experience each generation instead of 2 or 3? I'm pretty sure you're in the minority here, most people would probably have a conniption if we don't get a new Pokemon game in 2 years. Anyway, you don't need to spend that much time on a game to blow people away, nor do you need two regions. Sequels have the potential to do that, as long as the game is designed so it feels like a new experience.

 

[Almonds]

Solution:

Give Diantha a bigger role or get rid of her and make Malva the champion

Like B2W2. They had Alder retire and Iris became the champ. A third version-ish sequel might sound good

 

[Bolt Strike]

Solution:

Give Diantha a bigger role or get rid of her and make Malva the champion

Like B2W2. They had Alder retire and Iris became the champ. A third version-ish sequel might sound good

I was thinking make Alexa the champion, I feel like she's probably a strong trainer and she could use a bigger role.

But Malva would be good, it would be neat to have an evil Champion.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I'd prefer for Malva to be more involved with Team Flare rather than be the Champion. She could be like the second in command of Team Flare if they do a third version game with a storyline afterwards possibly showing her changing her way or she could be the new leader of Team Flare either continuing on with Lysandre's goal or providing a new goal for the new Team Flare if they go the sequel route. Malva not being more involved with Team Flare was one of the biggest missed opportunities in X/Y, so I'd like to see the next game, or games, do more with her character. I guess she could be both the Champion and more heavily involved with Team Flare, but I don't know if they'd do that simply because that would mean that you'd defeat her twice and losing as a member of Team Flare should have more of an impact on her than losing as the Champion.

 

[henrymidfields]

To be honest, I didn't know that there was a pacing issue in GSC. Well except for that huge jump between Blue and Red. I actually looked forward to visit Kanto in my Silver and Crystal, nothing more and nothing less - and I was really happy when I did. If anything, leveling up for Elesa in Black was a bigger pain - simply because of that Exp scaling, which quickly dwindles to a trickle the moment your Pokemon outlevels the local wild Pokemon. And it was doubly bad for her, because unless you actually thought of a strategy through, or overlevel her by 5-10, there's not much you can do.

Also it may be worth considering how critics received the Johto series as one of the best. Both the originals and the remakes. Maybe the fact that we get to visit another region is a factor - though I'm sure it's not the only one.

So, yeah, I'd like to see another game in which I can revisit an older region. The Kalos starters at least now have new moves to learn in their Lv 60s-70s (eg Greninja's Water Shuriken), and there are probably other non-Legendaries that learn new moves in said level ranges. Not to mention that as mentioned before, pacing can be solved/mitigated by rasing the post-Champion bosses' levels.

PS Okay, so Delphox, Chesnaught, and Greninja all learn 3 moves between Lv 60-75. Charizard also learn 3 moves in the same level range. For some reason Blastoise and Venusar don't, unless I'm missing something. For Pseudos, Hydreigon, Salamence, Tyranitar, and Dragonite all learn moves, up until Lv 75-81. For mega-evolving Pokemon, Blaziken, Ampharos, Houndoom, Gengar, Aerodactyl, Gardevoir, Aggron, and Manectric learn at least one move between Lv 65-75+. For more common Pokemon, Talonflame also learn new stuff in Lv 65-75+. So there are more Pokemon which have end-game moves to learn.

 

[Sylveon Lover]

what bout: XX and YY?

 

[Bland Mango]

I've got it, the sequel to Pokemon X will be Pokemon Z (pronounced Zed) and the sequel to Pokemon Y will be Pokemon Z pronounced (Zee)

I think Zygarde will definitely feature as the main Poke, even in B2W2 Kyurem took centre stage, and similarly Zygarde will need a form change or Mega Evo or something, as 600 Base Stat just isn't good enough for a legend of his calibre. I think it will be a Mega Evo since this gen is focusing so heavily on Mega Evos, and a BST of 700 would be just right considering he's like the boss of the XYZ trio and the other 2 have 680 BST

 

[Magmaster12]

The last two "third versions" expanded the dex I think there's a chance Z will include every single non legendary pokemon in it's dex.

If there are two versions maybe they'll have an event related to the Johto starters in one and one related to the Sinnoh starters in another I think there's a chance of RSRemake still so there would be no point in giving out Hoenn Starters.

In continuing with patterns Johto's legendary dogs will replace the legendary birds.

 

[Ice Tyrant]

I would say the Kalos Starters and Zygarde would each gain a Mega Evolution, the former for evening them out with the Kanto Starters, and the latter for giving it the proper abilities to demolish Xerneas and Yveltal, perhaps give it Iron Head in the process via move tutor, since only Outrage as Physical STAB is just plain terrible nowadays due to how Fairies can now get a free switch AND turn of set up given Outrage's effects and their immunity to Dragon Type Moves.

 

[henrymidfields]

In continuing with patterns Johto's legendary dogs will replace the legendary birds.

Hmmm... While that may be logical in the sequence sense, I think it'll be better if it was a legendary trio that's not explicitly tied to a region. See, i think the birds worked, because they weren't specifically tied to Kanto's history. So them flying to other parts of the world made sense to me. I find those legendary dogs too much tied to Johto's/Poke-Kyoto's history, to not feel out of place roaming in Kalos/Poke-France. But then again, that's may be just me.

 

[Bolt Strike]

The last two "third versions" expanded the dex I think there's a chance Z will include every single non legendary pokemon in it's dex.

If there are two versions maybe they'll have an event related to the Johto starters in one and one related to the Sinnoh starters in another I think there's a chance of RSRemake still so there would be no point in giving out Hoenn Starters.

In continuing with patterns Johto's legendary dogs will replace the legendary birds.

I doubt it. There's no need for them to add more Pokemon to the Dex. Platinum added Pokemon because the Dex was imbalanced (too few Fire, Electric, and Ice types) and BW2 added more because of the complaints about only new Pokemon. There's nothing they could add to XY's Dex that would necessarily help things. Unless they pull a Gen 6.5 and create entirely new Pokemon.

I think the next Kalos game will have something along the lines of this:

-Everything that was in XY.
-Raikou/Entei/Suicune- Runners
-Uxie/Mesprit/Azelf- I guess a similar system to BW2 (Uxie near Professor Sycamore's Lab, Mesprit in Pokemon Village?, Azelf at the top of Tower of Mastery)
-Dialga/Palkia/Giratina- Not sure where to put these guys
-Cresselia- Roams through Wandering Woods similar to Latios/Latias in BW2
-Reshiram/Zekrom- Catchable in Parfum Palace post game
-Kyurem- Catchable in Frost Cavern

Hmmm... While that may be logical in the sequence sense, I think it'll be better if it was a legendary trio that's not explicitly tied to a region. See, i think the birds worked, because they weren't specifically tied to Kanto's history. So them flying to other parts of the world made sense to me. I find those legendary dogs too much tied to Johto's/Poke-Kyoto's history, to not feel out of place roaming in Kalos/Poke-France. But then again, that's may be just me.

We are long past the point where this is an issue, we've had several games with Pokemon from other regions in them that didn't have much reason to be there. Colosseum and XD had Ho-oh and Lugia, HGSS had the Weather trio, and BW2 had the Lake Trio. Hell, for that matter why is Mewtwo in Kalos? That doesn't make much sense. They can pretty much BS anything they want into the game.

 

[Silktree]

I posted some of my thoughts in my blog.

 

[Bland Mango]

Could the 3rd game focus maybe on the Poke equivalent of French Guiana, so it would still be a part of Kalos, (Guiana is a part of France, not a territory) but far away from Kalos as the hiker stated. Also as it's thousands of miles away it wouldn't surprise me if it had 1 facility with a Champion rather than a full blown league, and a place with its own culture and territory slightly and so its own legendary hence the strange souvenir.

 

[Silktree]

Could the 3rd game focus maybe on the Poke equivalent of French Guiana, so it would still be a part of Kalos, (Guiana is a part of France, not a territory) but far away from Kalos as the hiker stated. Also as it's thousands of miles away it wouldn't surprise me if it had 1 facility with a Champion rather than a full blown league, and a place with its own culture and territory slightly and so its own legendary hence the strange souvenir.

I do think that it may be based on Guyana since the Strange Souvenir suggests a South American influence, and Guyana was referenced way back in Generation I. But if Game Freak just wanted to complement Kalos with a sub-region, I see no reason why they wouldn't just use its direct vicinity.

Also as it's thousands of miles away it wouldn't surprise me if it had 1 facility with a Champion rather than a full blown league,

Facilities don't have Champions. I don't think that Game Freak were trying to mislead us with that reference; the facility and the Champion were mentioned on separate occasions.

 

[Bland Mango]

I do think that it may be based on Guyana since the Strange Souvenir suggests a South American influence, and Guyana was referenced way back in Generation I. But if Game Freak just wanted to complement Kalos with a sub-region, I see no reason why they wouldn't just use its direct vicinity.

Also as it's thousands of miles away it wouldn't surprise me if it had 1 facility with a Champion rather than a full blown league,

Facilities don't have Champions. I don't think that Game Freak were trying to mislead us with that reference; the facility and the Champion were mentioned on separate occasions.

There could be a Mew tie in, Mew hasn't really featured in game in any way since Emerald and even then only for Japan.

I think it could be a smaller league, or something with a twist similar to the orange islands rather than another full blown 8 leaders, elite four and a champion.

 

[Silktree]

There could be a Mew tie in, Mew hasn't really featured in game in any way since Emerald and even then only for Japan.

I think it could be a smaller league, or something with a twist similar to the orange islands rather than another full blown 8 leaders, elite four and a champion.

If they're going to add some sort of league, at least one new legendary and a story related to Mew, I don't see why they would relegate those elements to a sub-region in XY sequels. I'd consider it a waste of potential, and my reasoning is outlined in my blog.

 

[Bland Mango]

There could be a Mew tie in, Mew hasn't really featured in game in any way since Emerald and even then only for Japan.

I think it could be a smaller league, or something with a twist similar to the orange islands rather than another full blown 8 leaders, elite four and a champion.

If they're going to add some sort of league, at least one new legendary and a story related to Mew, I don't see why they would relegate those elements to a sub-region in XY sequels. I'd consider it a waste of potential, and my reasoning is outlined in my blog.

I think it's certain that any second installment whether it be Prequels, Sequels , a 3rd version or something else, will have main Kalos at its centre

 

[Silktree]

I think it's certain that any second installment whether it be Prequels, Sequels , a 3rd version or something else, will have main Kalos at its centre

I don't see how it is certain at all. XY foreshadow a new region more than continued focus on Kalos.

 

[Bland Mango]

I think it's certain that any second installment whether it be Prequels, Sequels , a 3rd version or something else, will have main Kalos at its centre

I don't see how it is certain at all. XY foreshadow a new region more than continued focus on Kalos.

I agree there could be a new region of sorts, but again I can't see it being a big region of 8 gyms e4 and Champ, I think it will be quite condensed, and I think Kalos will still be the main focus despite this addition of a new region/sub-region. I know you say you think this will be a waste of potential and I sort of agree with you to be honest, but if there is one thing Game Freak does best, it's waste potential.