• Another exciting episode of Bulbacast has been uploaded to YouTube. Watch it here.
  • Grookey, Scorbunny or Sobble, which one do you love most? Want to show your support with a cool banner, check out the info here!

SPECULATION: Split Timeline Query

Defiant

Thunder & Lightning, it's getting exciting!
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
710
Reaction score
1,190
So the most common way of defining the timelines are

Classic timeline: RBY -> GSC
Advanced timeline: Gen 3 -> Gen 4 -> Gen 5
Mega timeline LGPE -> Gen 6 -> Gen 7

However this seems to be overlooking something to me. In XY NPC's specifically mention that the Fairy type has only just recently been discovered, and that Mega Evolution is still pretty unique, and there was nothing when XY initially came out that suggested it was in a different universe to Gen 5. It was only when ORAS came out, specifically the delta episode that people assumed ORAS is different universe to RSE, and XY must be linked to ORAS.

However that doesn't fit, in ORAS the fairy type is not mentioned as being recent, in fact it's though its been there the whole time. People just assume as ORAS was in Gen 6 it's the same universe as XY.
But Gen 7 proved you can have alternate universes in the same timeline (SM and USUM clearly are alternative universes to each other)

So couldn't XY still be part of the Gen 3 - Gen 4 - Gen 5 timeline, with only ORAS in a new timeline?
As for Gen 7, it's implied that Anabel in SM is the one from Emerald, and from a different universe, implying Emerald and SM are in different universes, but this is then removed in USUM, so is it possible that while SM are not in the Gen 3 - Gen 4 - Gen 5 timeline etc, USUM might be?
 

Unown Seer

Silktree?
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
16,856
Reaction score
9,177
1. While XY are inconsistent with ORAS, Zinnia states that the Kalos war is the event that caused the Mega Evolution split. This would place XY and ORAS in the same general timeline, seeing as the war was referenced in all those games. You could explain the discrepancies (which are due to poor planning) through even more branching in said timeline.

2. Anabel is still in USUM. She just doesn't have much to do because Game Freak wanted a new post-game story.

3. LGPE's position is unconfirmed. There really aren't enough references to other regions to establish anything.

4. All of this has been discussed in another thread.
 
Last edited:

Cute Charm

Mimikyu + Snover = Wolfman???
Joined
May 19, 2003
Messages
948
Reaction score
963
The timelines came into play during gen V with the two brothers. Before that, its assumed that everything is part of the same universe. The way I see it is the timelines are more or less closer to this:

R/G/B 》 G/S 》 R/S 》 D/P 》 Black or White 》 Black 2 or White 2 》 X or Y 》 Sun or Ultra Sun/Moon or Ultra Moon.

Which explains the "this has just recently been descovered!" Stuff since everything has been building on the discoveries in the first games.

The other universe, the one from ORAS, is:

FR/LG 》 HGSS 》 ORAS 》 Sinnoh remakes 》 Black or White 》 Black 2 or White 2 》 X or Y 》 Sun or Ultra Sun/Moon or Ultra Moon.

The last 4 sets of games being the ones not personally chosen for the "main" timeline.

Of course this is really super simplified and doesn't take into consideration the actual placement in the timeline or the minor timelines (like the uptuptly ended third version timeline or Yellow's personal timeline or wherever LGPE is, or the failed timelines that causes Rainbow Rocket into being). But it makes sense that the universes didn't really start to seperate until the DS remakes started.

But yeah, personally I don't see them split up into the classic, advance, and mega timelines so much as a main timeline and a remake timeline where all the new discoveries have already been found a long time ago.
 

Esserise

if i were you, i'd dress myself in silver
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
4,788
Reaction score
11,734
and there was nothing when XY initially came out that suggested it was in a different universe to Gen 5. It was only when ORAS came out, specifically the delta episode that people assumed ORAS is different universe to RSE, and XY must be linked to ORAS.
(Not to toot my own horn, but personally, I was thinking of XY as being separate from the previous games, even before ORAS came out - though only because I found the task of reconciling the Mewtwo in Kalos with the established continuity to be too headache-inducing, and came to the conclusion that it would maybe just be easier to say that the games get rebooted every few generations.)

However that doesn't fit, in ORAS the fairy type is not mentioned as being recent, in fact it's though its been there the whole time.
The Fairy type has, physically speaking, "always been there the whole time" no matter whether you're looking at XY or ORAS, it's just that scientists didn't know how to classify it. At any rate, the word "recent" gains a bit more flexibility when you're talking about scientific discoveries, simply because of the impact that big discoveries tend to have. The iPhone is a fairly recent technology, and it was introduced in 2007. That's twelve years ago - which is even a little longer than the gap between ORAS and XY appears to be.

So couldn't XY still be part of the Gen 3 - Gen 4 - Gen 5 timeline, with only ORAS in a new timeline?
Well, it could and it couldn't.

If your whole conception of Gens 3-5 being a separate universe from ORAS is based on Zinnia's comments, then you have to keep in mind that Zinnia says the ultimate weapon, and the entire Kalosian war, never even existed in the universe without Mega Evolution. So putting XY in with that universe wouldn't make sense.

But then, basically everything the fandom has codified in regards to the multiverse ever since ORAS (and I'm guilty of my fair share) has been pointless. If it's a multiverse, then anything goes. The notion that specifically Gens 3-5 form some discrete, coherent universe is an entirely speculative interpretation. All ORAS talks about is another Hoenn without Mega Evolution, and even then, you've got three games to choose from that fit that criteria. The reality is that they've said nothing specific about which games correspond to which universe, if any - and it would be far easier and far simpler to just assume that every game - nay, every save file - is its own universe. Because then you've solved just about every possible continuity error, while also aligning cosmology of the games with the actual, metafictional reality of the games.

As for Gen 7, it's implied that Anabel in SM is the one from Emerald, and from a different universe, implying Emerald and SM are in different universes, but this is then removed in USUM, so is it possible that while SM are not in the Gen 3 - Gen 4 - Gen 5 timeline etc, USUM might be?
I don't think it's really "removed" in USUM so much as it's just not talked about because they already covered that in the previous game, and because she's less relevant in the current one. And, you'd have to come up with a bunch of tedious fanfic explanations in order to justify a Gen 3/4/5/USUM sequence of events anyway, so what's really the point?
 

Unown Seer

Silktree?
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
16,856
Reaction score
9,177
far simpler to just assume that every game - nay, every save file - is its own universe.
Except for the games with actual sequels. Black and Black 2 don't contradict each other, and the same goes for White and White 2. RGBY and GSC are trickier, but only because of Red and Blue's Pokemon (the former match Yellow and the latter match RGB), although nothing says that they couldn't have obtained some of those between the two sets of games. I feel that the story connection would lose meaning if you applied the multiverse card to sequels.
 

Esserise

if i were you, i'd dress myself in silver
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
4,788
Reaction score
11,734
Except for the games with actual sequels. Black and Black 2 don't contradict each other, and the same goes for White and White 2. RGBY and GSC are trickier, but only because of Red and Blue's Pokemon (the former match Yellow and the latter match RGB), although nothing says that they couldn't have obtained some of those between the two sets of games. I feel that the story connection would lose meaning if you applied the multiverse card to sequels.
It's true that there is essentially no point in applying the multiverse logic to sequels - in the rare instance that sequels occur, they're clearly signposted as a continuation of the previous story. But if you wanted to be an ultra-anorak, you could point to the differences in the Gen 1 and 2 type charts or ask "Why won't my Golbat evolve in RBY no matter how much I battle with it?", in which case, the multiverse will get you sorted.

My blanket statement about every game filing into a multiverse is really just meant to point out how that sort of continuity-obsessive debate is unnecessary, and how it seems kinda silly to worry about making sure the continuity within these kinds of elaborate three-timeline theories lines up perfectly when there's nothing stopping you from just writing off every single error as a side-effect of the multiverse. I don't think most people, Game Freak included, actually care all that much about Pokémon continuity, so yeah, for the most part, if a game is presented as a sequel, then it connects to the previous game - simple as that. But if you really insist on squaring away every detail between all these different timelines, then all you have to do is say, "It's just a different timeline."
 
Top