SPOILERS: Masters Eight Discussion/Speculation Thread

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I hope its just predictions. I think it would be absolutely insulting for the writers to include Alain and never have Ash be the one to defeat him after their horrible decision in the Kalos League. Also, I really think the Project Mew conclusion and wrapping up Goh's story will happen before the Masters 8.

And he HAS to defeat him using Ash-Greninja

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

And he HAS to defeat him using Ash-Greninja

I sure hope so, revenge is a dish best served cold after all. And it would sure be cathartic for all of us XYZ fans.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I sure hope so, revenge is a dish best served cold after all. And it would sure be cathartic for all of us XYZ fans.

Too bad more people are going to remember the later round matches. The best time to have Ash beat Alain was at the Kalos League Finals. In pro sports, does anyone remember the first round or second round compared to the finals?

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

Too bad more people are going to remember the later round matches. The best time to have Ash beat Alain was at the Kalos League Finals. In pro sports, does anyone remember the first round or second round compared to the finals?

True, true. But, for all of us ardent fans of XYZ, all the years we spent waiting for this payback (if he does use Greninja,) will make it all the more satisfying. Plus, the Kalos League is looong since done with at this point. Can't go backwards, after all. Still, I feel ya. Sure wish it could have happened back then, when the animation was gorgeous.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Too bad more people are going to remember the later round matches. The best time to have Ash beat Alain was at the Kalos League Finals. In pro sports, does anyone remember the first round or second round compared to the finals?

They do if a certain player in their second season went down swinging and dropping 49 and 63 points (MJ)

If Ash can't beat Alain or isn't matched up with him then so be it.Him losing to Alain in the Kalos League still isn't as bad as losing to Trollbias or Cameron,plus it was down to 1 pokemon each it was comparable to Ash's battle with Tyson,his Meowth looked like it was about to fall down but stayed on it's feet.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

They do if a certain player in their second season went down swinging and dropping 49 and 63 points (MJ)

If Ash can't beat Alain or isn't matched up with him then so be it.Him losing to Alain in the Kalos League still isn't as bad as losing to Trollbias or Cameron,plus it was down to 1 pokemon each it was comparable to Ash's battle with Tyson,his Meowth looked like it was about to fall down but stayed on it's feet.

Agreed, with the losses against Cameron and Trollbias they were worse, but only because of how unfair and stupid they were. His loss against Cameron was an utter joke, and Tobias was just evil how OP he was. Wasn't fair in the slightest. With Alain, on the other hand, Ash's team was solid, the best it had ever looked, and people believed he could win. Plus, he had gotten to the finals, better than he had ever done before. That's why we all felt so betrayed and angry when he lost.......again.

 

[Daren]

You know, a few parts of the timing on having a world championship now worked out very, very well. Every region can have a champion representative (Johto and Kanto sharing one helps) with one extra slot for an anime original character to occupy (whatever controversies I'm glad we had a non-game character in), and Leon being designed around the idea that he was the protagonist of an unseen Pokémon game makes him as the "champion of champions" a good thematic fit. When I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if Leon having that connection is part of why they did a world championship in the generation he was introduced.
In fact depending on when they get info on the upcoming games from GameFreak I could almost wonder if Ash won in Alola because they saw a golden opportunity here when they were told about Leon and his role in the games. After all they talked about wanting this to be the ultimate battle.
As much as JN has been controversial I think there's a good chance the battle with Leon could hit it out of the park. Sun/Moon wasn't renowned for battles either but I regularly see Kukui brought up as a top 3.

I also think it will likely be the next coming of the Drake championship match with Charizard downing half of Ash's team so if he has to lose he can at least blame his teammates letting him down.

 

[Rath]

You know, a few parts of the timing on having a world championship now worked out very, very well. Every region can have a champion representative (Johto and Kanto sharing one helps) with one extra slot for an anime original character to occupy (whatever controversies I'm glad we had a non-game character in), and Leon being designed around the idea that he was the protagonist of an unseen Pokémon game makes him as the "champion of champions" a good thematic fit. When I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if Leon having that connection is part of why they did a world championship in the generation he was introduced.
In fact depending on when they get info on the upcoming games from GameFreak I could almost wonder if Ash won in Alola because they saw a golden opportunity here when they were told about Leon and his role in the games. After all they talked about wanting this to be the ultimate battle.
As much as JN has been controversial I think there's a good chance the battle with Leon could hit it out of the park. Sun/Moon wasn't renowned for battles either but I regularly see Kukui brought up as a top 3.

I also think it will likely be the next coming of the Drake championship match with Charizard downing half of Ash's team so if he has to lose he can at least blame his teammates letting him down.

Plus there's the fact that Leon personality-wise is basically Ash in an adult body

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Agreed, with the losses against Cameron and Trollbias they were worse, but only because of how unfair and stupid they were. His loss against Cameron was an utter joke, and Tobias was just evil how OP he was. Wasn't fair in the slightest. With Alain, on the other hand, Ash's team was solid, the best it had ever looked, and people believed he could win. Plus, he had gotten to the finals, better than he had ever done before. That's why we all felt so betrayed and angry when he lost.......again.

Well seeing how people are still upset about how that went down that just further proves Ash's win at the Alola League wasn't jack squat.Ash definitely should've won at the Kalos League up until it was revealed that Alain was competing at the league because other than him there was no one else on Ash's level.I actually predicted that Ash would lose due to MCX's insane feats in the Mega Evolution Specials.I even at one point dubbed him as the Jiren of the pokemon anime.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

Plus there's the fact that Leon personality-wise is basically Ash in an adult body

That's why I liked episode 100, it basically showed us what Ash will be like as an adult (if they ever let him.)

 

[kantoskies]

It might be because I'm not a huge fan of the XY series and think its portrayal of Satoshi as a boring, over-serious trainer is so overrated and the worst version of Satoshi we've ever gotten (seriously, the Satoshi-Gekkouga "transformation" animation is so laughably over-serious for no reason) but I really hope Alan is just here for shits and giggles and is eliminated in the first round by someone who isn't Satoshi.

I'm honestly saying this not to flame anyone, and maybe it belongs in the "unpopular opinion" thread or whatever, but that "rivalry" was just so...lame? I don't know. Maybe if it had been set up from day one and not years in I'd feel differently, maybe if Satoshi was even somewhat interesting or likeable in XY I'd feel differently, maybe if Alan's design and personality wasn't a 12 year old boy's DeviantArt edgy OC Pokemon trainer I'd feel differently. Plus I always thought Satoshi-Gekkouga was a dumb way to give Satoshi a Mega Evolution while also trying to make Satoshi unique by highlighting this bond with a Pokemon he had a frankly slightly-above-average-at-best bond with by that point....anyways wow I've gotten off-topic!

From the bottom of my heart I hope Iris beats Alan in round one. It would be nice payback for the disrespect she got from the writers (and quite frankly a large portion of the fanbase...)

As for Satoshi winning this thing, I really am not sure. I could see it going any which way. I just hope all of his past companions get small cameos watching the battle. Even if they're just silent one-off cameos, it would be nice to give this a larger sense of grandeur and make it feel more like the anime has been building up to it for 25 years.

 

[Beatsy Ray]

In my opinion, Ash has been getting progressively flanderized since BW. Up until DP he acted like a regular kid, with some immature tendencies, but with genuine empathy. For instance, he is able to recognize Dawn's inner turmoil during her depression arc despite her trying to hide it, and was even savvy enough to give her the space she needed at the time. Since then, they cranked up the Goku-meter, making him less emotionally complex and generally stupider.

They cranked it up even more in SM, however I strangely didn't mind because that series was so tonally consistent overall, despite having an extremely jarring transition coming off of XY. Journeys is the worst in my opinion; Ash has all but devolved into a walking nervous system that only reacts to Pokemon and food. This really doesn't work for me in a series that is trying to be more serious and depict him as a veteran trainer. It also makes some character returns awkward, like Dawn describing Ash to Koharu as an absent-minded Pokemon addict. That's certainly what he became, but it's a straight up retcon for them to say that that's what she knew him as. I'm worried about what the Paul return is going to look like for this reason. Realistically, he would be pretty disturbed by Ash's transformation.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

The peak of Ash's character was in the Original Series (Kanto) when he was actually funny,rash,hot-headed and bickered back and forth with the female companion,pure entertainment.His character dropped slightly in Johto and it showed even more in Hoenn but still showed glimpes of his old self.By late AG (Battle Frontier) to early DP is when he truly becomes stale.The BW,SM and JN versions didn't line up with the ones from the previous series including XY,they felt like versions from a different universe.

BW Ash is incompetent,both SM & JN Ash acted differently from DP/XY/AG but apparently they're still competent,it's a huge inconsistent mess.I really like Ash's character from OS but he was still a little wet behind the ears and I prefer watching the anime strictly for the battles.So my personal favorite version is AG Ash (Hoenn) because he became more mature and took his role as a trainer more seriously but at times would still act like the rash,hot-headed person he was from OS.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

And he HAS to defeat him using Ash-Greninja

I could see Lucario serving as Greninja's successor and "avenging" its sensei.

 

[ilteren]

Alain deserved being in M8 and it seems Ash vs Alain battle is inevitable. I expect an epic fight. However is it the revenge that is wanted by fans? I think Ash should beat Alain in Kalos League six years ago, not here not now. Because Ash will win with plot armor here and the battle will be overshadowed by Ash vs Leon. If Greninja won't be here, and a 3vs3 battle, it will be less satisfying too.

I think Alain shouldn't be in M8. His absence can be explained easily because he is assistant of Scymore now and has left his mega stones. They can announce Lance as just Kanto Champion and announce Jimmy/Ethan as Johto Champion or announce Lance as just Johto Champion and create a female character who is adapted from Blue and announce as Kanto Champion. Lance wasn't Kanto Champion when I saw him last time. Ash vs Jimmy (anime adaptation of Red vs Gold) or Ash vs Blue (Ash vs Kanto Champion) could be more interesting than Ash vs Alain for me. I prefer a friendly 1vs1, AG vs MCX match after M8.

 

[Sai]

Alan is in the Masters 8, and since most non-Ash battles will probably be off screened to save time and animation, I doubt they brought him back to do nothing with him. We'll see at least one of Iris battles but I expect any champion/champion battle to either be mostly off screen or only see the tail end of the fight

 

[nickdt]

The match-ups as i feel they are the most logical are.

Top 8

Iris vs Lance - Iris has the goal to become a Dragon Master, which means the only logical match-up for her here is Lance. She also most likely wins, to show her natural progression and growth as a trainer.

Cynthia vs Alain - Due to the rivalry between Ash and Alain, it would only be fitting that the second strongest trainer in the world (And don't come at me that she is the strongest, because games, in the anime, she clearly isn't). So while Ash couldn't beat Alain, it would only be fitting for Alain to be defeated by the second strongest trainer in the world.

Leon vs Steven - Steven is the current third strongest champion. So him and Leon duking it out and Leon defeating him, would only show Leons strenght on-screen as well, making him a real threat, especially if G-Max Zard takes out Mega Metagross as well.

Diantha vs Ash - Diantha is arguably the weakest champion (Maybe alongside Iris). So Ash defeating Diantha, still pushes him into that underdog role the writers want him in. I think this is especially vital for the Masters Eight.

Top 4

Cynthia vs Ash - Ash defeating Cynthia, would show his natural progession and growth as a Pokemon trainer, more than when he would have defeated Alain imo (Will explain later on) and truly sets him up alongside the top 4 trainers in the world (Leon, Ash, Cynthia and Steven).

Leon vs Iris - Leon obviously wins here, but what the battle does is setting up a rivalry between Iris and Ash as well (But its mainly a one-side rivalry from Iris) and a plotpoint for the future. Iris wants to drive and trainer harder, to someday defeat that 'little kid'.

Final

Leon vs Ash - This match can go two ways. Ash winning against Leon (Which is the least likely option imo) and him losing (Which is the most likely option).

Like, Ash winning against Leon (The strongest trainer in the world, would make Ash the strongest). Meaning there really isn't any progression you can make with Ash, unless you want to regress him again for the next region. Him losing however, you can progess him still, but also regress him a little bit, with making the argument that while he has come truly far, he has realized he still needs more Pokemon in order to make the ultimate and strongest team (While at the end, realizing his ultimate and strongest team is and stays his Kanto one).

Now, let me explain the Ash vs Alain situation as well.

I feel like Ash defeating Alain in the PWC, wouldn't do much for him from a narrative standpoint (Other than getting revenge, but then you had to put in Harisson and Tyson in the PWC as well, nor will it do much if it isn't with the same team he lost against Alain). Ash and Alain are both regional league winners, they aren't truly regional champions. Then there is also the thing that Alain arguably won the hardest of both of those leagues. So Ash defeating Alain, would still not put him on the same level as the other regional champions (Aside from Iris, who is the newest). However, him defeating a regional champion, would do such a thing and especially with Diantha, who he couldn't beat in Kalos (She was only toying with him), would show Ash having greatly improved as a trainer (Despite her being arguably the weakest of them all, she is still ahead of Alain powerwise, else he would have beaten her as the regional champion).

Another thing they potentially can do is develop a points system. Have every trainer fight against eachother at least once, but the 2 trainers with the most points fight eachother for the PWC title.

 

[Sai]

Diantha and Steven don't even have proper debuts in this series, that alone shows you they'll be the least important characters in the tournament. There is also literally no reason for Cynthia to battle Alan, like at all.

I feel like people are saying Alan will battle Leon, Alan will battle Steven and lose, etc. It feels like a lot of reaching.

 

[Rath]

Diantha and Steven don't even have proper debuts in this series, that alone shows you they'll be the least important characters in the tournament. There is also literally no reason for Cynthia to battle Alan, like at all.

I feel like people are saying Alan will battle Leon, Alan will battle Steven and lose, etc. It feels like a lot of reaching.

Yeah, Diantha and Steven being relegated to cameos basically tells us that they're losing in the first round.

 

[El Squibbonator]

Like, Ash winning against Leon (The strongest trainer in the world, would make Ash the strongest). Meaning there really isn't any progression you can make with Ash, unless you want to regress him again for the next region.

Who says Ash is going to the next region? This whole arc has "series finale" written all over it; I'm convinced they might be starting over with a new protagonist for Scarlet and Violet. There's literally nowhere else for them to go.