• Bubapedia Error 503 Backend fetch failed

    Our technical staff are continuing to monitor the wiki to try and resolve these ongoing issues that are impacting page and image loading. We apologize for the inconvenience. We'll update as soon as we've got more information on this for you.

  • Check out our new Mysterious Garden forum style if you haven't already - we're sure you'll love it!
  • All members are allowed to express their opinions, no matter how unpopular, so long as they respect others and do not claim their opinion is the only valid opinion. While we understand that there is debate regarding Goh, someone posting an opinion you disagree with does not give you the right to attack them or report the content for trolling/baiting. This notice will serve as a 0-point warning and as such, Anime & Manga staff reserve the right to jump immediately to point warnings. For more information regarding our stance on arguments and debates, see this PSA.
  • If you are finding yourself unable to log in, you should be able to fix the issue by following the following process.
    1. Close all browser tabs with any part of Bulbagarden open.
    2. Delete all Bulbagarden.net cookies (and if possible, any cached site data for Bulbagarden) from your browser.
    3. Close and reopen your browser, open a new tab, and log into the forums on the new tab.
    If you've followed this process and are still having issues, please contact us via the "Contact us" link at the bottom of the forum.

SPOILERS: Masters Eight Discussion/Speculation Thread

FinnishPokéFan92

Huggable Electric Rodent
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
22,989
Reaction score
47,343
Pronouns
He/Him
Ash vs Steven? NOOOO we better get Ash Greninja vs MCX
Tracey and Hop being there is cool, but looks like reserves are out as they are just watching at Oaks...
This is going to be just a free-for-all as a part of the opening festivities. The actual matchups will be revealed later.
 

ManUtd22

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2015
Messages
990
Reaction score
580
Really for me, then iris does not deserve to win one single match in bw anime then how she reached this level I don't know?

I saw everything single episode in bw so no one will tell me. Tobias who got latios and darkrai couldn't be there so how does she?

The pyramid king branden who consider as one of the best characters in this anime never played so how does she be there? Can someone answered me?

I want to see all of casey, zoey, may, n with concordia and anthia, misty, branden, tobias, burgundy and Georgia.
 

Rath

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
1,255
Reaction score
2,098
Really for me, then iris does not deserve to win one single match in bw anime then how she reached this level I don't know?

I saw everything single episode in bw so no one will tell me. Tobias who got latios and darkrai couldn't be there so how does she?

The pyramid king branden who consider as one of the best characters in this anime never played so how does she be there? Can someone answered me?

I want to see all of casey, zoey, may, n with concordia and anthia, misty, branden, tobias, burgundy and Georgia.
Tobias isn't a character, he's a walking plot device created solely to stop Ash from winning the Sinnoh League, so I think even the most hardcore Iris haters would prefer her being here over the complete non-character that is Tobias.
 

Sai

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2021
Messages
1,303
Reaction score
1,824
Iris being there is also far more interesting than if they kept Alder. Having one former Ash companion competing in this is nice. Alder would have just been a placeholder character.
 

ManUtd22

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2015
Messages
990
Reaction score
580
Tobias isn't a character, he's a walking plot device created solely to stop Ash from winning the Sinnoh League, so I think even the most hardcore Iris haters would prefer her being here over the complete non-character that is Tobias.

We who hate iris don't her to in the entire anime if you ask me or ask us.

We knew her character from bw and to tell the trainer for me then she doesn't deserve to be a trainer also. She, trip and Cameron are the worst ever
Iris being there is also far more interesting than if they kept Alder. Having one former Ash companion competing in this is nice. Alder would have just been a placeholder character.

I don't think so
 

Hidden Mew

Super Moderator
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
13,241
Reaction score
17,498
Admittedly, the idea of Tobias being in the Master Class is hilarious, but I wouldn't have wanted him in the tournament. They already have Alain to tease a possible rematch with Ash. As much as I dislike Alain, he had more personality and a bigger role than Tobias ever did. I also like his Japanese voice actor, so that gives Alain a bit of a plus in my book. Losing to Alain was arguably worse than losing to Tobias. It didn't cause nearly as much backlash and people would clearly be way more into the idea of Ash finally defeating Alain as opposed to defeating Tobias.

I hate Iris and I don't like that she's in the the Master Class primarily because she's only here due to being the Unova Champion in the games. As I said before, it doesn't make me think that she's come so far or that it's interesting to see a former traveling companion battling against Ash in this tournament. It feels forced and unearned because there was no foundation for this development. It happened just because they wanted to have all generations represented in the Master Class. Admittedly, I'm not sure what they could have done to make this development feel more believable and earned to me since Iris becoming the Unova Champion alone would have been a really tough sell as far as I'm concerned. That being said, I don't think that Tobias would have been an improvement. He was pretty much just a blatant roadblock preventing Ash from winning the Sinnoh League. At least Alain had more going on for him that just that.
 

ManUtd22

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2015
Messages
990
Reaction score
580
For Alain and tobias then you do have a point and I admit it but still I think that they could make him be here because he still the champion of sinnoh and have both latios and darkrai.

The champion of both kanto and jhoto wasn't that strong to me and even Steven. I do like the gym leader of emerald. He was strong and smart. I loved the way he used the pokemons in the water during the final gym match in emerald before the match with Ash in final gym badge match.

I do agree for all been said about iris. She wasn't strong and to tell you the truth then I don't see her as a trainer.

But branden does deserve it because he was so smart so strong so aggressive when it need and so motivation person who love to motivate everyone too and want them to do there best
 

FinnishPokéFan92

Huggable Electric Rodent
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
22,989
Reaction score
47,343
Pronouns
He/Him
For Alain and tobias then you do have a point and I admit it but still I think that they could make him be here because he still the champion of sinnoh and have both latios and darkrai.
Tobias is not a Champion. He's just a League tournament winner, like Alain.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

Detroit SMAAAASH! Eevee style.
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
2,474
Reaction score
8,610
Pronouns
she/her
For Alain and tobias then you do have a point and I admit it but still I think that they could make him be here because he still the champion of sinnoh and have both latios and darkrai.
No he's not, because Cynthia is clearly still Sinnoh's Champion. Tobias may have won the League, but that doesn't mean he's Champion of the entire region automatically unlike in Alola, where the fact that it was the very first League tournament meant its winner would be Champion by default (though for what's worth, Ash did actually defeat Kukui afterwards, and Kukui is probably the closest Alola has to a pre-existing Champion, meaning that Ash still got to earn his title both the new way and the "traditional" way); Tobias would still have to beat the Sinnoh Elite Four and Cynthia first, and considering he never even gets so much as a mention after everything is said and done means that either Tobias never challenged the Elite Four bracket for whatever reason, or he straight up lost to the very first one (which would actually make some sense, since Sinnoh's first Elite Four member is Aaron, who specializes in Bug-types, which Tobias's Darkrai and Latios just happen to be weak against).

Even aside from all that, the fact still stands that for the Masters 8 it still just makes way more sense to include every region's Champion. Even if Iris hadn't been Unova's Champion, Alder is the one who would've been in her place. Not Tobias. Or any other League-kicker rival for that matter. The Unova Champion had to be there regardless of if it was Alder or Iris. Hate the BW saga all you want, but like it or not, Journeys is meant to showcase ALL regions, so it wouldn't have made any sense nor would it really be fair for Unova to be arbitrarily left out of the Masters 8 bracket.

In the end what this means is that the Masters 8 was always going to only have one available spot for a previous league-kicker rival, and Alain is by far the most logical choice since he had far more buildup and development than all the others, his battle is probably the most popular aside from the controversial result, and Ash defeating him would generate way more hype than if he were to beat, say, Ritchie, Harrison, or Tyson.

The final nail in the coffin for Tobias is the simple fact that he's by far the least popular of the League-kicker rivals due to how much of a blatant plot device he is; even Cameron has defenders, but you'd be really hard-pressed to find someone who actually likes Tobias.
 

ManUtd22

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2015
Messages
990
Reaction score
580
I do understand you point and I am so fine with alder being here because I always like alder in bw and if you think iris is the champion then I think that alder grandson is champion more than her and they could do a character for him. Or doing a character for hilda or bw2 girl .

Tobias is like alain so for me tobias could be here right hahaha ha? You answered yourself here.

But branden does deserve it because he was so smart so strong so aggressive when it need and so motivation person who love to motivate everyone too and want them to do there best
 

Daren

Unsung Hero
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
3,407
Reaction score
9,771
In the end what this means is that the Masters 8 was always going to only have one available spot for a previous league-kicker rival, and Alain is by far the most logical choice since he had far more buildup and development than all the others, his battle is probably the most popular aside from the controversial result, and Ash defeating him would generate way more hype than if he were to beat, say, Ritchie, Harrison, or Tyson.
I think Alain being the most recent league kicker could also be relevant, since it raises the chances of people remembering him--people who started with XY at the age of 7 or so still be around is about the same as people starting Kanto at 7 and still being around in AG, which that series seemed written around the assumption of to some extent.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

Detroit SMAAAASH! Eevee style.
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
2,474
Reaction score
8,610
Pronouns
she/her
I do understand you point and I am so fine with alder being here because I always like alder in bw and if you think iris is the champion then I think that alder grandson is champion more than her and they could do a character for him. Or doing a character for hilda or bw2 girl .
Alder's son and the BW protagonists weren't used because they were never canonically the Champions of the Unova games whereas Iris was. It's contrived, yes, but it's plainly obvious that the writers are going for game accuracy here, so again, it was either Alder or Iris and we got Iris. That's all there is to it.

Tobias is like alain so for me tobias could be here right hahaha ha? You answered yourself here.
Um. No I didn't? Tobias might be your personal Alain, but your personal wants do not have priority over anyone else's, especially when they're the minority opinion, and the simple fact of the matter is that between Tobias and Alain, the latter is a far more anticipated and wanted comeback among the overall fanbase.

To give a similar example that actually does apply to me, I would unironically love it if Ash's Unfezant made a comeback and got redemption in a future battle, but I also know that that's almost certainly never going to happen because Unfezant is extremely unpopular. As in, "literally no one else besides me actually wants her to redeem herself" unpopular. So the writers have no incentive to bring Unfezant back. And that's something that I simply have to deal with.

But branden does deserve it because he was so smart so strong so aggressive when it need and so motivation person who love to motivate everyone too and want them to do there best
Yes, that may be so, but once again, it was always going to be Champions+Ash+Just One More Person. There was no space for Brandon.
 

ManUtd22

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2015
Messages
990
Reaction score
580
Alder's son and the BW protagonists weren't used because they were never canonically the Champions of the Unova games whereas Iris was. It's contrived, yes, but it's plainly obvious that the writers are going for game accuracy here, so again, it was either Alder or Iris and we got Iris. That's all there is to it.


Um. No I didn't? Tobias might be your personal Alain, but your personal wants do not have priority over anyone else's, especially when they're the minority opinion, and the simple fact of the matter is that between Tobias and Alain, the latter is a far more anticipated and wanted comeback among the overall fanbase.

To give a similar example that actually does apply to me, I would unironically love it if Ash's Unfezant made a comeback and got redemption in a future battle, but I also know that that's almost certainly never going to happen because Unfezant is extremely unpopular. As in, "literally no one else besides me actually wants her to redeem herself" unpopular. So the writers have no incentive to bring Unfezant back. And that's something that I simply have to deal with.


Yes, that may be so, but once again, it was always going to be Champions+Ash+Just One More Person. There was no space for Brandon.
OK I didn't say that tobias has to be here. In reality they went out if their way to make iris a Champion so for us who new that she doesn't deserve it then we will say it differently for sure.

You can understand my opinion from this thread which completed 11 years until now before two weeks Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

OK I didn't say that he should be the champion bit in reality he is much stronger than who were the champion because he went to be the final player in b2w2 building but they never made a character for him in anime. I will chose anyone of these characters hilla, or b2w2 the girl character for being the Champions because they talked about Hibbert or hilarious in b2w2 when you will visit their mom's home.

Anyway, it doesn't have to be this way; because for us who you think are not right for thinking that Iris shouldn't be here, then we will tell you that our opinion came because we know about her character in anime already.

Alder does deserve it because he was strong, and he is the champion and even cilantro was much strong that Iris the worst character who always win by luck.

Really I love cilantro and want to see him with all of ritchie, casey, zoey, may, n with concordia and anthia, misty, branden, tobias, burgundy and Georgia.
 

Sweet Veil

Bright Days
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
4,613
Reaction score
112
Happy to see Queen Iris in Masters 8, hope she debuts G-Max Lapras and it’s cool seeing her dragon powers again. This is a nice lineup of iconic characters, Iris should show off Dragonite, Haxorus, Excadrill, Lapras, Hydreigon, Emolga and her Gible/Gabite/Garchomp can sit this out cause Cynthia.

I’m happy to see my fav made it to M8, she really deserves it and Journeys has given her a glow-up for the ages and the returns she’s deserved. Also Aoi Yuuki remains a sweetheart in her interviews. I happy Alain means we hear from Mairin again, so excited to see both❤️
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

Detroit SMAAAASH! Eevee style.
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
2,474
Reaction score
8,610
Pronouns
she/her
OK I didn't say that tobias has to be here. In reality they went out if their way to make iris a Champion so for us who new that she doesn't deserve it then we will say it differently for sure.

You can understand my opinion from this thread which completed 11 years until now before two weeks Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

OK I didn't say that he should be the champion bit in reality he is much stronger than who were the champion because he went to be the final player in b2w2 building but they never made a character for him in anime. I will chose anyone of these characters hilla, or b2w2 the girl character for being the Champions because they talked about Hibbert or hilarious in b2w2 when you will visit their mom's home.

Anyway, it doesn't have to be this way; because for us who you think are not right for thinking that Iris shouldn't be here, then we will tell you that our opinion came because we know about her character in anime already.
Okay, I would love it if you stopped claiming that I "think you're not right for thinking Iris shouldn't be here" because that's NOT what I said nor does it actually align with my actual personal thoughts. Quite ironic, considering you're trying to get me to understand your opinion (by linking me to a locked thread that is not only over a decade old, but that you don't even seem to have ever replied to, so idk why you thought that'd give me any perspective on your thoughts).

For the record, I don't like Iris's anime incarnation that much either: she never really earned any of her accomplishments and her skills as a Dragon Specialist were inconsistent at best despite how much BW's narrative tried to hype them as the greatest thing ever. However, the reason I don't mind her being in the Masters 8 too much is simply because, like I've said a million times already, it just makes sense from a meta perspective to have all the Champions being in the Masters 8, so one of the two Unova Champions was gonna be included no matter what. Would it have been better if it was Alder instead? If I'm being completely honest, not in my opinion, because I actually don't like the anime version of Alder either. So yeah, basically the Unova representative was always gonna be a lose/lose for me regardless of which pick they ultimately went with (though ironically I actually do like the game versions of Alder and Iris quite a bit, to the point that the latter is actually my favorite Champion in the games), so my lack of care over Iris making it to the Masters 8 is simply resignation, as it would've been if Alder had been in her place.

And yeah, Alder's son is a harder fight than the Champion in the games. But then by that logic none of the Masters 8 should've been Champions and instead they should have all been replaced with postgame Battle Facility trainers. Not just Iris. But that was clearly never going to happen because Battle Facility trainers are simply not as iconic as the Champions are, so of course the latter are the ones who will be used: it's literally the same reason we have a constant influx of Lucarios, Charizards, and Eevees in every saga over stuff like, say, Purugly, Venomoth, or Lickitung: popularity and marketability.
 

Sai

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2021
Messages
1,303
Reaction score
1,824
Alder would be boring as hell. Including Iris over him in the Masters 8 was the right decision. He would have just been a placeholder whereas with Iris she's basically been reinvented as a new character while also giving her the proper development she needed. Her personality was fun in her first episode so I want to see more. The new art style also makes her look much more adorable.
 

Hidden Mew

Super Moderator
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
13,241
Reaction score
17,498
Personally, I don't see Iris lasting more than the first round. I could see her defeating someone like Lance to showcase that she has improved since her battle with Ash and then lose in the second round, most likely to Cynthia. I don't think Alder would have been a significant improvement, especially when his BW characterization was pretty bad too, but it's a moot point when they were going for the current Unova Champion from the games and that would still be Iris.
 

WatcherMark

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
1,275
Reaction score
1,374
Happy to see Queen Iris in Masters 8, hope she debuts G-Max Lapras and it’s cool seeing her dragon powers again. This is a nice lineup of iconic characters, Iris should show off Dragonite, Haxorus, Excadrill, Lapras, Hydreigon, Emolga and her Gible/Gabite/Garchomp can sit this out cause Cynthia.

I’m happy to see my fav made it to M8, she really deserves it and Journeys has given her a glow-up for the ages and the returns she’s deserved. Also Aoi Yuuki remains a sweetheart in her interviews. I happy Alain means we hear from Mairin again, so excited to see both❤️

Why would Iris be using a Laplace? The only time she's ever had one is in the manga... and why would it be G-Max when Isshu doesn't have any power spots?

Also, it looks like the Masters Eight is going to be used to burn through the Generation VII Pokemon who haven't had an animated debut before now.

M8A.png


M82.png


My biggest complaint about this series is how it's essentially ignored the newest batch of Pokemon. Not counting the two above, can you believe we're at the point where the series is now starting to wrap up and we've still got about twenty Pokemon that haven't appeared in the anime in any capacity, not even as cameos or images.
 

ripplefieldz

#1 faba hater
Joined
Jan 11, 2022
Messages
159
Reaction score
217
Pronouns
she/her
ok you know what. i don't feel like reading the rest of this thread so somebody else might have gotten the same idea + i never finished the darkest day arc so my knowledge on what happened with rose is going solely off bulbapedia BUTTTT. thought i had even though it will probably not happen considering how journeys is.

okay so like apparently at the end of the darkest day arc rose just like. fucked off somewhere? and leon's trying to find his ass but it seems bitches just cannot find him? so like. hear me out here. ash vs leon is gonna get interrupted like in the games. and THAT'S where rose comes back into play, possibly marking bede's appearance too. alternatively it could probably happen after the semifinals (it was the semifinals right? i think it was. the one where you fight your rivals whatever that one) like the whole bit with rose tower too.

i know they will probably not do this. but on the chance they do even part of this. I Fucking Called It
 
Top